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Which DCC system is the best?

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Posted by hectorgonzales on Monday, July 25, 2011 12:56 PM

davidmbedard

Akido, If I give you my phone number, I can talk you through a programming.  If you are interested, just shoot me a PM.  I wouldnt do this for just anyone.

David B

David please check your PM from me. Thank you.

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Sunday, July 24, 2011 7:21 AM

Wait until Akido gets the international Phone call bill LaughWhistling

He'll learn that David's love for him is expensive.

Springfield PA

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, July 24, 2011 5:56 AM

davidmbedard

Akido, If I give you my phone number, I can talk you through a programming.  If you are interested, just shoot me a PM.  I wouldnt do this for just anyone.

David B

David, at this point, aren't you kinda just beating a dead horse?   Laugh

Wow, I am feeling the love here.  Let's hope Akido takes you up on your generous offer.

Hey, why don't you just post your phone number here so any of us can call you whenever we feel the need?   Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, July 22, 2011 10:36 PM

 We've programmed those just fine on the club system, which is a DB150 and a DT400 hooked to a short section of track (no one is allowed to program with the system that runs the actual layout - which is a DCS100 plus 3 DB150's). So the exact same setup you've tried with hooking up a short section of track to the track conections, independent of the layout. I KNOW this works fine with the built-in handling of CV29, because not everyone at the club knows anything about DCC and they've been able to set their addresses. No one is running their Paragon 2 steam locos around on address 3. The only one we had poroblems with at the last show turned out to be an MRC decoder, but with some workarounds I was at least able to get some stuff set on my programming system which is a PR3 and my laptop with JMRI. The MRC decders generally do not read back even on a system that can do readback (again, the Super EMpire Builder/DB150 cannot read - the PR3 can), yet if I read only 1 CV at a time is seemed to work. WIth JMRI, usually you cna put a loco on the program track and there's an option to read every CV int he decoder to store a baseline config - the didn't work with the MRC decoder.

 When did you call Digitrax? Hopefully not just the other week when everyone was away at the NMRA convention/National Train Show.

 But try just the basics. 2 wires to a short piece of track, big enough to hold the loco. Pres the Prog button until you see Pg in the bottom middle of the display. Turn the left know counterclockwise until you see AD2=???. Click the right knob so it says AD4=???. Key in the address you want. Press the Enter key. The display will come back to Ad4On?=y. Press the Y/+ key. It should come back to Ad4On?=y. Press Y/+ again for good measure, then press the Exit key. Press Power then Y/+ to turn the track power back on. Select the address and your loco should operate.

 

                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Aikidomaster on Friday, July 22, 2011 3:49 PM

Simon1966,

I am using the DT440 throttle for programing. By the way, the Broadway Limited locomotives are NOT the Blueline ones but rather those equipped with sound.Cool

Craig North Carolina

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Posted by Aikidomaster on Friday, July 22, 2011 3:45 PM

Comrad,

I tried contacting Digitrax by phone 4 times and never got through. So, I gave up. I am moving my power pack, boosters, and district managers to a more central location and easier access. So, with that in mind, I am going to go step by step through the manual (AGAIN) with the new setup. I plan to start a new posting on Model Railroader Forum. I will ask my fellow modelers to help me with any problems that I have along the way. Hopefully, this will work out better.Bang Head

Craig North Carolina

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, July 22, 2011 6:40 AM

 Keep in mind, the Super Empire Builder cannot 'say' anything - it has no CV readback and cannot tell you the value of any CV. It's plug and pray that the decoder accepts the value. The throttle will always say OK, but that is NOT a confirmation that the decoder settings changed, only that teh command was accepted by the system.

 Since the Super EMpire Builder puts full power on the track for programming, there usually isn;t a problem with sound locos. These aren't Broadway Blue Line locos, are they?

When you click the knob and the display changes to AD4= and you enter the desired address, after you hit Enter it then prompts you with AD4=y? You ne3ed to press the Y/+ key to acknowledge you want to change to 4 digit addressing. You don;t have all day to do this, there is a timeout. Also, there is no harm in pressing Y more than once.

 If this still does not work (and after programmign nearly all my locos with this method, not even bothering with JMRI for a simple address change, it shouldn;t be a problem), the alternative is calculating the values for CV17, CV18, and CV29 and programming those individually. A suitable calculator is here: http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm

 Program CV17, then CV18, then finally CV29 based on values from the calculator. Turn track power back on and try the new address.

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by galaxy on Friday, July 22, 2011 6:00 AM

While I admit I cannot help with your Digitrax system, You have titled this "what DCC system is best"" a topic that DOES get beaten to death. Perhaps a better title would have been "help me program my Digitrax" instead as THAT seems to be the gist of you thread.

I try my best to treat each "beaten" post gently as I realize the question asked is very important to anyone asking it and is new to them.

Your title leaves it open for anyone to specify "their system is best". You will get as many answers as there are systems available. It's a bit like asking "which is the best car to buy?".

In answer to your title question, though, I have to say if you 18 locos or less, perhaps the Bachmann EZ Command with 5 amp booster is for you. YOu CAN program 2 locos at one 2 digit address, AS LONG as you are NTO running them at the same time. # 10 on the EZ C can run a DC loco, and turns into a function key for lighting. It is SIMPLE to use and program with 2 digit addressess.

It does have drawbacks, if you want to play with your sound effects etc, it won't do that. If you want to program by your 4 digit loco's number for an address it won't do that. It works fine for me for now. and I would recommend it. I also know CudaKen here has expressed dissatisfaction with him more expensive DCC COntroller that burned out, but fortunately he had hs EZ C to fall back on to run some trains.

I have printed little "roof stickers" witht eh 2 digit address on it and attached to the roof of the loco, so I can find it by written description on the controller listing, or by looking at the top of hte loco in question. I can imagine that prototypes MIGHT do a roof painitng of a loco's number on its roof so as to be read from the tower top, or "from the sky".

I DO hope to upgreade in the future to perhaps the DIgitrax Zephyr Xtra with 3 amps, and if I ever get a house where i can have a larger layout than my small one now, I will get a booster to go with it. However, I have read enough posts and threads liek yours where people have had trouble with ANY system.

{I am also dyslexic, so if my words are  not "right" to the rest of the world, they may look  "right" to me.}

-G .

Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.

 HO and N Scale.

After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.

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Posted by Aikidomaster on Thursday, July 21, 2011 6:26 PM

Well, I do not think that is the locomotives. They are Broadway Limited N&W Class A and Class J's. I suspect that it is more of a procedural issue. Believe it or not, I have a learning disability. I am dyslexic. For me, it is more than just reversing numbers. I am a great oral and physical learner but not so good with reading. After I have done some task or heard about some subject in a lecture, I get a lot out of books, journals, etc. But, I have no such aids in my neck of the woods.Sigh

I am going to add the PM42's to my layout in the next couple of weeks. As a matter of fact, I have built a new shelf under the layout for all of the DCC equipment including programer/booster and power supply. I am going to be extra careful with each step to make certain that my setup is not the problem. From there, I will try programing again.Black Eye

And no, I don't have to worry about the bills. I hold black belt rank in Tae Kwon Do, Nihon Goshin Aikido, and American Freestyle karate. I have been a martial artist since 1972. I am tempted to use those skills on the Digitrax system (once in a while).Super Angry

Craig North Carolina

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Posted by Lake on Thursday, July 21, 2011 6:26 PM

Craig, you may already know these things so if so just ignore them. Are you pushing the Y button after entering the four digit engine number when it asks you to before hitting exit?  Many people forget to do this step when programming in a 4 digit engine number.                                                      I have even done it and wondered why the address did not take.

Also try doing a factory reset if you are having problems. Then reprogram the CV's.

As far as the power districts and reverse loops, I just followed the instructions in the manual that came with my Digitrax PM-42. It was way more soldering then I ever wanted to do though. I had to read the instruction over and over many times to get it correct for what I wanted, but it all worked out.

Other brands have screws to attach the wires, but I did not learn this until I had already started on the PM-42.

I just took it one step at a time until I figured it out. If I had a way of having a computer in the train room I would use JMRI as it and many other after market items will interface with Digitrax. I bought Digitrax for that reason. And I am very Big Smile

 

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:27 PM

Keep in mind some decoders have the ability to be "locked" by the user, so you (or anyone else) cannot make changes until it is unlocked. It could be you have decoders that have been locked in the past. Might be if the decoders / engines have been sitting for a couple of years that could affect their ability to be programmed.

Anyway I would suggest you look at buying a Digitrax PR3, hooking it up to a programming track and to your computer, and then doing the free download from the web of JMRI Decoder Pro. I didn't have much trouble programming decoders with my Digitrax Zephyr, but I've recently started using Decoder Pro and it makes it a lot easier especially with sound decoders where there are many options. It kinda takes the decoder info and translates it into plain English. If your system doesn't read back CVs I would think it would especially helpful.

http://www.digitrax.com/prd_compint_pr3.php

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/apps/DecoderPro/index.shtml

You hit "read sheet" to read the current settings on the decoder. Then you go in and make the changes you want, and hit "write sheet" to program the changes:

Stix
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Posted by Comrad_Durandal on Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:13 PM

While we're keen on helping you - you might find more real-time conversation with an expert more helpful and less frustrating - hence the suggestion that you call DigiTrax with the decoder manuals handy.

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Posted by simon1966 on Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:08 PM

Yes, Craig, do that.

Make sure we know what throttle you are using?   Probably a DT400, but we should not assume that.  Also what the locomotive/decoder is that you are trying to program? and exactly what it is you are trying to program.   There are enough Digitrax users here, and plenty with the Super Empire Builder to be of assistance.    One short coming of the SEB is that it does not have CV read back so it is not so easy to confirm that a program step has been achieved.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Aikidomaster on Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:59 PM

I did not mean literally "say". What I meant was that the throttle that I was using to program the locomotive would print on the LED read out that the command had been accepted. It has been a few months since I have tried programing, so I do not remember the exact "word" that was used.

My thought is to try it again. Step by step and comment on the Forum what I have done and whether or not that particular step was successful. Then, folks such as yourself could help me correct what I might have done wrong. This type of thread would be very helpful to me.Thumbs Up

Again, thank you.

Craig North Carolina

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Posted by simon1966 on Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:52 PM

Aikidomaster

 Suggestions, please. This, for me is NOT beating the same old "dead horse".

If you had picked any other title to the thread you would not have been greeted with groans and "oh no not again" responses.   Anyway. lets move on.......

Ok, next bit of information needed, what decoders are you having a problem programming?   This may very well be  decoder issue.  Some decoders are known to be harder to program, hence the after market for program boosters. 

As of right now the problem could be

1. A procedural issue, you are not following the steps correctly to make the changes

2. A setup issue, things are not connected correctly for the program track.

3. A decoder issue, the particular decoders you are trying to program have quirks.

4. A hardware issue, something is genuinely wrong with your DCC system.

So again it is not necessarily a Digitrax problem.  

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Comrad_Durandal on Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:15 PM

Aikidomaster

David B,

I have the Empire Builder Digitrax system. It is about 5 years old. I only recently (past 2 plus years) started to use it. I am having a lot of trouble programming locomotives even with such simple things as just changing the locomotive 4 digit address. I have tried 2 methods. One, was to take all of the other locomotives off of the layout and try to program it. The other, was to make a separate programming track that is isolated from the rest of the layout. I would get the locomotives to "say" that they have accepted the new programs only to not be successful. This stuff is getting "old". I have not tried to do this again for the past 8 months basically because of frustration and the fact that two of my business partners have become ill and I am working A LOT extra. Also, with the extra pressure of work, I do not need more grief from Digitrax. Suggestions, please. This, for me is NOT beating the same old "dead horse".SoapBox

 

My advice, for what it's worth, is to get the instructions from the manufacturer of the decoder(s) you are looking to program; then call the folks at DigiTrax.  Ask them to lead you through programming a locomotive on a programming track, as you are having a problems with it.  I am sure they will be happy to assist you with it.  Failing this, I've found it's always helpful to take a breath, read through the instructions - perhaps even having someone else read you the instructions as you perform each step slowly.  Often times, I've caught errors this way when programming or putting something together simply because I over-think it.

Take it slow, doing one locomotive program at a time - making sure it works the way you want before you turn to the next one.  If it still won't work, and you have access to a decoder tester - use it.  If the decoder is bad, seek to get it repaired.  I am not being verbose to be insulting, we all get frustrated when things don't work the way we expect them to - and sometimes in our effort to 'get it over with' we speed ahead on something we assume we did one way when in fact we did it another - and that's the root of the problem.

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Posted by Aikidomaster on Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:05 PM

By the way, I do have a 2nd booster, 2 PM42's (with PS12 power supply) and 5 UP5's.

Craig North Carolina

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Posted by Stevert on Thursday, July 21, 2011 12:58 PM

Aikidomaster
I would get the locomotives to "say" that they have accepted the new programs only to not be successful.

Literally "say"?  As in, you're programming sound locos that have verbal response?  And you haven't turned that verbal response off? 

That's probably why it's not "taking".  The decoder is still in the process of "saying" it's response to the last command while you command station is trying to send the next command.

Turn off the verbal response.  You'll have much better luck.

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Posted by Aikidomaster on Thursday, July 21, 2011 12:43 PM

David B,

I have the Empire Builder Digitrax system. It is about 5 years old. I only recently (past 2 plus years) started to use it. I am having a lot of trouble programming locomotives even with such simple things as just changing the locomotive 4 digit address. I have tried 2 methods. One, was to take all of the other locomotives off of the layout and try to program it. The other, was to make a separate programming track that is isolated from the rest of the layout. I would get the locomotives to "say" that they have accepted the new programs only to not be successful. This stuff is getting "old". I have not tried to do this again for the past 8 months basically because of frustration and the fact that two of my business partners have become ill and I am working A LOT extra. Also, with the extra pressure of work, I do not need more grief from Digitrax. Suggestions, please. This, for me is NOT beating the same old "dead horse".SoapBox

Craig North Carolina

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Posted by jalajoie on Monday, July 18, 2011 11:35 AM

I suggest you post your turnouts problems on a separate thread, it will have more exposure than if you leave it buried inside this thread. I don't use Atlas turnouts so I can't help.

Jack W.

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Posted by HudsonRR on Monday, July 18, 2011 10:29 AM

I just purchased a Digitrax Zypher and 2 DCC Proto Locos.  I had the system up and running in less tha an hour.  Changing the addresses of the loco on the programing track was easy.  I found the directions user freindly.  Only proble I have encounted is the turnouts.  One loco has tin wheels and rund trunght the turnouts just fine.  The other loco has wider weheels and shorts out on the turnout.  As per an article I read, I tried clear nail polish on the frogs and had limited scscess.  I am using Atlas code 100 4 and 6 turnouts.  Any one have any idea?

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, July 17, 2011 8:22 PM

As Simon1966 says, two of your "issues" , those concerning power districts and an operating turntable have nothing to do with the brand of DCC system.   If you elaborate on those a bit we can probably help.....

As for programming a locomotive I suspect that has a lot more to do with the brand of the decoder that you are trying to program rather than the command system.   What function or feature are you trying to program?   Are you using the programming track or trying to program on the main? 

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Posted by simon1966 on Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:28 AM

I hope that Craig has not been put off by the direction of the thread because he has some genuine issues which I suspect with more information can be addressed.  This is especially important with the power district and turntable as changing DCC system is going to have no impact on these problems and they need to be sorted before making any such decision as the frustration will just continue.   So Craig, if you are still following along, provide some more details and let the assembles masses help.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, July 16, 2011 4:16 AM

 Well, I think the major manufacturers are all about equal in reliability. In my case I have Digitrax equipment, a Zephyr, a DB150, a PM42, a bunch of UP5 panels, and 3 throttles (on a used DT100 I got in eBay), and none of it has ever needed service. They club runs Digitrax and aside from a power supply (NOT a Digitrax one) that blew at one show, there have not been any equoment failures. There are a bunch of club-owned UT4R and UT4D radio throttles for those that don't have their own, and every time I pick up one of those it just works.

 As for support, all the major brnads have so much peer to peer support, mostly via a Yahoo Group dedicated to that system, that the onyl reason you probably need to call the manufacturer is if something truly is broken and you need to send it in for repair. And like most anything electronic, failure usually comes early. Later in life failures are usually things like dropping the throttle and crackign the display or something. I've had my Zephyr for something like 7 years now, so I'm pretty confident it's a solid piece of equipment.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Jamis on Friday, July 15, 2011 9:21 PM

Define the universe and give three examples. 

It seems to me that one needs to learn a lot about the particular DCC system to be versed in it.  I'm still working through the DCC essentials based on what I think I need for the layout at hand.   Which is best has a lot of parameters to that answer.  High point on my list is relaibilty, service, and support.

Jim -  Preserving the history of the NKP Cloverleaf first subdivision.

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, July 15, 2011 8:41 PM

 Nor have we gotten any specifics. All but his programmign issues are going to be identical regardless of whic DCC system, and the programming issue could be with sound decoders, not with figuring out which buttons to push.

            --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by jalajoie on Friday, July 15, 2011 8:09 PM

Fastball

Moderator, consider this topic asked and answered.  Lock it up.

-Paul

But the OP programming problems have not been addressed yet.

Jack W.

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Posted by Fastball on Friday, July 15, 2011 7:48 PM

Comrad_Durandal

I think the best DCC system is the one that can do what you need it to do when you purchase it, do what you want it to when you want to expand it, and will result in the least amount of discarded equipment when that upgrade comes.

Comrad, I think you have brilliantly answered this topic once and for all, now and forever!  You've said it better than any of us have ever tried before.  Bravo.Bow 

Moderator, consider this topic asked and answered.  Lock it up.

-Paul

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Posted by Comrad_Durandal on Friday, July 15, 2011 5:18 PM

I think the best DCC system is the one that can do what you need it to do when you purchase it, do what you want it to when you want to expand it, and will result in the least amount of discarded equipment when that upgrade comes.

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