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NCE Power Cab Thoughts/Opinions???

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Posted by Acela026 on Friday, May 13, 2011 2:52 PM

I figure that for the AHM I might just keep it DC.  Or I could remove the motor and turn it into a lighted dummy...I like the realistic look of LED's!

Acela

 The timbers beneath the rails are not the only ties that bind on the railroad.
           -
-Robert S. McGonigal

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, May 13, 2011 10:54 AM

Acela026

Yeah, I knowEmbarrassed  To be specific, the system is NCE's Power Cab, and the locomotives I have right now to convert are:

  • Spectrum F40PH (~2004)
  • IHC GG1 (~2003)
  • AHM BL-2 (Pre-2000's)
  • Bachmann? SW-1 (1990's)

Hopefully that helps...

Acela, a piece of advice, start a new thread for additional questions like this as you will find you get many more answers since the current thread title has no real bearing on what you are now asking about.

All 4 of the locos you mention are going to require hard soldered decoders.

I have done one of the Spectrum F40PH's and it is a split frame loco very much like the one in this link

http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Bachmann/Spectrum_Dash_8-40CW/Spectrum%20Dash%208-40CW.html

The method for any of these split frame spectrums is the same.   I have used TCS, as in the link example, and have also used NCE decoders in these types of locos.   If you are going to do these, then take the time to replace the lighting as well with LED's. 

Not sure about the IHC GG1, but I suspect that this will be a hard solder install as well.  If it is like the other IHC locos I have done, all the internal wiring is black and so you have to be careful about which wire performs what function.

The AHM is fairly ancient.  It will also be a hard wire job and may not be worth doing.  Given its age, one of the things to be careful about is the current draw of the motor.

Bottom line is that you have 4 quite old models here that are not DCC ready and will need careful hard wired decoder installation.   All will need to have their motors checked to see if they are (a) high current pullers and (b) if they are isolated.   I am certain that all are possible to convert to DCC.   If you want sound, well that is a different matter.  

Without getting overly complex, any DCC decoder made by any of the main manufacturers will work with any DCC system.   I have Digitrax, NCE, TCS, Lenz, Soundtraxx, QSI and Bachmann decoders quite happily running on my Digitrax system, and you would have the same result with your PowerCab.

 

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by wholeman on Friday, May 13, 2011 12:15 AM

Acela026

 

 richg1998:

 

 

 You need a lot of DCC education.

 

Rich

 

 

Yeah, I knowEmbarrassed  To be specific, the system is NCE's Power Cab, and the locomotives I have right now to convert are:

  • Spectrum F40PH (~2004)
  • IHC GG1 (~2003)
  • AHM BL-2 (Pre-2000's)
  • Bachmann? SW-1 (1990's)

Hopefully that helps...

Pick up yourself a copy of Lionel Strang's book DCC Made Easy.  It is pretty basic and should help you somewhat.  I found it helpful.  Also, you might want to learn how to solder, if you don't already know how.  You can pick up a rather inexpensive soldering iron at Sears or Wal-Mart.  You might find the pencil soldering iron will be more helpful instead of the soldering gun.

 

Will

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Posted by Acela026 on Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:06 PM

richg1998

 You need a lot of DCC education.

Rich

Yeah, I knowEmbarrassed  To be specific, the system is NCE's Power Cab, and the locomotives I have right now to convert are:

  • Spectrum F40PH (~2004)
  • IHC GG1 (~2003)
  • AHM BL-2 (Pre-2000's)
  • Bachmann? SW-1 (1990's)

Hopefully that helps...

 The timbers beneath the rails are not the only ties that bind on the railroad.
           -
-Robert S. McGonigal

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:53 PM

Acela026

When converting a locomotive, do you need a special decoder made for the system, loco, both or neither?

Acela

Most decoders work with any system but there are fine points. There are many variables when fine tuning decoders. All decoders, non-sound and sound have different characteristics, depending on the brand. Really too broad a question. You need a lot of DCC education.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Acela026 on Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:58 PM

When converting a locomotive, do you need a special decoder made for the system, loco, both or neither?

Acela

 The timbers beneath the rails are not the only ties that bind on the railroad.
           -
-Robert S. McGonigal

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:39 PM

 It IS way cooler to have the autoreverser, but the 'old ways' still work.

WIth an autoreverser all you have to worry about is making sure the turntable bridge is lined up with track so you don't put a loco in the pit.  If the turntable has an identifying feature on one side, like a control cabin at only 1 end, or somethign like that, you can use that to identify when to throw the toggle, it's easy to get confused. If it's wrong the loco will short when leaving the bridge, no biggy, just flip the toggle. Once you get used to which way the toggle has to be you'll flip it before any trouble and just drive off.

                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Doug from Michigan on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:58 PM

rrinker

 Just add a DPDT switch to the turntable deck feeder, wired with an X pattern for a reversing switch. If you spin the table 180 degrees and want to drive off the opposite end you entered, just flipt eh toggle.

 DC reversing methods still work with DCC, you don't HAVE to automate things.

                      --Randy

 

There I go overlooking the obvious.  Thanks Randy.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:01 AM

 Just add a DPDT switch to the turntable deck feeder, wired with an X pattern for a reversing switch. If you spin the table 180 degrees and want to drive off the opposite end you entered, just flipt eh toggle.

 DC reversing methods still work with DCC, you don't HAVE to automate things.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Doug from Michigan on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:41 AM

We just hooked up our Power Cab last week and so far, we couldn't be happier.  My 8yr. old son just loves it.  He is even running two trains by himself, and has learned how to adjust the momentum to make them look "more like real trains, Dad!"

I'm also watching about the auto reverser issues.  We have a turntable that, for now, is running independently off of a DC power pack, just to power the motor.  The turnatable tracks are running off the main bus, making us enter and exit the turnatable from one end only, to maintain polarity.  It's a work-around that could get better.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 5:21 AM

I have an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system that I have operated on my layout for about 7 years now with great success.  I have four Digitrax AR-1 units on my layout, and they have all performed flawlessly on a continuous basis.

I have never operated a Power Cab or had a PSX-AR on my layout, but I constantly read remarks on this forum about problems with operating the PSX-AR with a Power Cab.  So, my question is:  does the PSX-AR work with the Power Cab?  And, does the Power Cab have problems with all auto-reverse units including the AR-1?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, May 9, 2011 7:16 PM

 The problem with making autoreversers work witht he PowerCab isn;t the amps for trip, but how fast it trips. Even all electronic breakers have SOME delay, often configurable, but the PowerCab's internal breaker does not have a configurable trip speed. So you need somethign that will react faster than the PowerCab's internal breaker. That's probably the issue with the original SB3 as well, the redesigned one probably has a slightly delayed trip time so it will work with various autoreverse units.

                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, May 9, 2011 5:24 PM

Rich

 The PSX-AR is adjustable for down to below 1 amp. It works with the Power Cab alone with no smart booster if set below the 1.5 to 1.25 amp range. I have also heard the Lenz LK200 reversing module will also work with the Power Cab. It automatically changes polarity with 1 Milli amp detected. I personally have not seen the Lenz unit used but have heard nothing but good revues of them. Our club uses the Lenz  system with PSX OG-AR units and they work great. The OG-AR units will not work with the Power Cab. They are rated at 3 amps and above the breaker level of the Power Cab.

      Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by tstage on Monday, May 9, 2011 2:41 PM

simon1966

 

I believe that NCE even did "the right thing" and offered very inexpensive trade for the new Smartbooster for those that were saddled with the old one.  The sb3a upgrade cures most all of the shortcomings of the Power Cab.  I think it is rather clever marketing by NCE.

Simon,

NCE is supposed to be releasing an upgrade EEPROM for the Power Cab (v1.28 to v1.6) that will offer some of the same features (e.g. 6-address recall stack, 4 total address slots for throttles, etc.) found with the new SB3a.  I think the only thing it doesn't do is increase the max. output of the Power Cab.  And, you still can't unplug it from the layout w/o shutting down the layout.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by simon1966 on Monday, May 9, 2011 2:28 PM

jackwade

I have a Power cab system with a sb3a booster. I have 5 AR-1 on my layout and they work just fine. Just have to use the setting adjustment to get the right touch for them.

That is to be expected.  The original Smartbooster did not work with any reversers or power management devices.  This was one of the primary reasons that  the Smartbooster was redesigned.  I believe that NCE even did "the right thing" and offered very inexpensive trade for the new Smartbooster for those that were saddled with the old one.  The sb3a upgrade cures most all of the shortcomings of the Power Cab.  I think it is rather clever marketing by NCE.  The street entry level price for the basic system is very attractive, but a large percentage of users will quickly find that they want the enhancements offered by the Smartbooster, so NCE gets a nice stream of additional revenue.  Kind of like all of us Zephyr users that quickly decide to add a walk around throttle or two to our systems.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by jackwade on Monday, May 9, 2011 2:06 PM

I have a Power cab system with a sb3a booster. I have 5 AR-1 on my layout and they work just fine. Just have to use the setting adjustment to get the right touch for them.

Steam Rules! Jack
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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, May 9, 2011 5:51 AM

simon1966

wdcrvr

I believe that the AR1 is a good example of a reverser that does not work with the PowerCab.   As I understand the problem, the relay based AR1 is slower to respond than the PowerCab's own protection and as a result the PowerCab shuts down the power before the AR1 can effect the reverse.

If the AR-1 doesn't work with the Power Cab, then you can be sure that the PSX-AR won't work with the Power Cab either.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by locoi1sa on Sunday, May 8, 2011 12:43 PM

wdcrvr

  DCC specialties makes the PSX-AR that is adjustable to work with the Power Cab. Also using two outputs from a Tam Valley Hex Frog Juicer will work as an auto reverser for the Power Cab. You can not forget the old double pole double throw switch for a large reverse loop.

         Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, May 8, 2011 11:57 AM

 In NCE-speak, Old Style consists use the command station to keep track of which locos are in the consists and making sure commands get sent to all of them. AN 'advanced' consist puts the consist address in CV19 on each decoder.

 CV19 consists are portable, once CV19 is programmed, it has to be reset to 0 to remove teh loco from the consist, so locos that are consisted on one system, if carried to another, are still consisted.

 Old style consists exist only in the command station. Take your locos elsewhere, and they will not be consisted anymore.

 CV19 consisting adds the complication of CV21 and CV22 to set which functions are enabled while in consist. NCE helps overcome some of this by aliasing the consists to whichever loco is the lead loco - so there is a menu option to reverse the consist at the end of the run to go back the other way. Without this feature, IMO CV19 consisting is WAY more limited than the 'old style'. Old style consists on other systems are only limited by the total number of locos the system allows you to control, and you cna address function commands to any individual loco in the consist. On a system liek Digitrax where the throttles have 2 knobs, say you had 3 locos, 2 non-sound and one with sound. You put the sound on as the middle unit in the consists., You control speed and direction of all three with one knob on the throttle, and dial up the middle loco on the second knob to blow the horn and so forth,

                                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Acela026 on Sunday, May 8, 2011 9:54 AM

I was looking through the online manual--what is the difference between an "old style" consist and an "advanced" consist?

Acela

 The timbers beneath the rails are not the only ties that bind on the railroad.
           -
-Robert S. McGonigal

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Posted by simon1966 on Saturday, May 7, 2011 9:34 PM

wdcrvr

I believe that the AR1 is a good example of a reverser that does not work with the PowerCab.   As I understand the problem, the relay based AR1 is slower to respond than the PowerCab's own protection and as a result the PowerCab shuts down the power before the AR1 can effect the reverse.

I would recommend posting to the NCE Yahoo group and see what reversers are recommended.   I think NCE was in the process of designing one that would work, but not sure if they ever came out with it.

Are you in Columbia, just south of Dupo?  If so, we are not very far from each other.  I am in Troy. 

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by wdcrvr on Saturday, May 7, 2011 9:20 PM

I have the NCE and am concerned about the reversing loop problems that some people are mentioning in this thread.  Will the AR1 reverse module have problems with the NCE Power Cab System?  Can someone tell me which reverse loop modules work well with the NCE Power CAb and which ones should be avoided?

wdcrvr

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Posted by simon1966 on Saturday, May 7, 2011 5:53 PM

Hi Acela

It looks to me as if you will not be limited by the PowerCab and that it will fulfill your needs quite well.  NCE makes good equipment, here in the USA.  I use a lot of their decoders with my Digitrax system and have no complaints.   Much as I like the PowerCab, having used one several times, it simply won't accommodate my requirements, even with a Smart Booster option, so it would not be a good choice for me.   This is why I think it is important to consider a systems limitations and what is needed to over come them.   There would be nothing worse that purchasing a system because a bunch of folks say that they like their systems, only to discover that some limitation you were unaware of was a big problem for you.

 

Good luck with your switch to DCC, you will have a blast!

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Acela026 on Saturday, May 7, 2011 5:24 PM

simon1966

 Do you plan on breaking your layout up into power districts now or in the future? 

It is already broken up into 7 electrical blocks, and is wired for 2-train operation.  Why not just go with a dual-control transformer, seein as the layout is wired for it? I like the extra benefits that DCC offers. 

simon1966

Do you have wye's, reversing loops and or turntables that require auto-reverse devices? 

Not yet.  I am making plans for an extension, but no reverse loops or wyes.  Possibly a motorized turntable if I can get one that doesn't cost a small fortune.Smile, Wink & Grin

simon1966

Since the PowerCab has a hand held cabled throttle, do you want to walk around your layout and run trains? 

 Since it is only a 4x8 (soon to be 4x12) that will not be neccesary. If I do need to move the 7' cord provided will be sufficient. 

Acela

 The timbers beneath the rails are not the only ties that bind on the railroad.
           -
-Robert S. McGonigal

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Posted by gandydancer19 on Saturday, May 7, 2011 1:02 PM

Well, since the Digitrax Zephyr has been brought up, It has to sit in one place like the DC power packs of old.  The Power Cab is a walk-around unit although it does have to remain plugged in.

Elmer.

The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.

(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.

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Posted by CWMRRC on Saturday, May 7, 2011 1:02 PM

I love mine.LaughIt is easy to use and programing is easy.

I have used both NCE and Digitrax and I found out that the Digitrax was much harder to promgram on compared to other systems.

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Posted by jalajoie on Saturday, May 7, 2011 9:58 AM

Well I own both a Digitrax Zephyr and an NCE Power Cab. Due to the limitations of the Power Cab, as explained by Simon, the Zephyr will be powering my modules under construction. The Power Cab which I think is an excellent system I use as a mobile programming station. You can't go wrong with the Power Cab providing you are well aware of its limitations. 

Jack W.

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Posted by woodone on Saturday, May 7, 2011 8:31 AM

It is one of the best bangs for your buck.

I have had mine for over 4 years- has been upgraded with the Smart Booster (5 amps).

It will not run a DC loco without a decoder, very few reverse loop modules work with it.

Can't unplug and move from panel to panel. these are some of the bads.

Goods out weigh the bads by far.   

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Posted by simon1966 on Saturday, May 7, 2011 8:03 AM

gregc

what is the difference between the power and pro cabs?

The Power Cab is the complete basic starter system package sold by NCE.  The Pro Cab is the name that NCE gives to its top of the line throttle used with the higher end Power House Pro system.

A really nice feature of the Power Cab throttle, is that you can take it to a Power House Pro layout, plug it in, and it now works as if it were a Pro Cab throttle.

So in many respects they are the same, except that the Power Cab throttle also has the booster electronics built into the hand held for when it is being used as part of the basic Power Cab starter system.  Which is why you can't unplug and move about to another location without the layout shutting down, because you are disconnecting the power booster from the track.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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