TA462 I just finished up two more customer installations, simple plug and play DH123PS decoders into Atlas C424's and no movement. All I install is Digitrax decoders and use my old Zephyr to program. I spoke to a few people I know and they've never had a loco jump or move in any way either, especially an inch.
I just finished up two more customer installations, simple plug and play DH123PS decoders into Atlas C424's and no movement. All I install is Digitrax decoders and use my old Zephyr to program. I spoke to a few people I know and they've never had a loco jump or move in any way either, especially an inch.
There are many here new to DCC. Its important to take care when giving advice; and I say this to all who read this: Some of us are hobbyists with some installation experience, some of us have extensive electronic background experience that goes beyond the scope of this hobby. I have read a lot on this forum that taken out of context could be misconstrued as the absolute truth. This is a dangerous practice.
It is great that everyone contributes and shares their experiences. But to dismiss a real condition because you have not experienced it is not fair to those trying to learn. DCC devices are many and their behavior differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Also, you have the different scales (N, HO, G, etc) different systems, different environments (Florida creates problems for electronics not seen in the Northeast for example). I simply ask everyone to keep your mind open, listen to the experience of others and contact the manufacturers if you have doubt.
Carl in Florida - - - - - - - - - - We need an HO Amtrak SDP40F and GE U36B oh wait- We GOT THEM!
If you really want to see the lurch, program the loco with the shell off. If the motor is in the least bit visible, or at least the flywheel, you should see it pulse. There may be enough slop in the drive train that the loco doesn't physically move. ALso some decoders seem to alternate the polarity of the pulse so the loco doesn;t creep constantly in one direction.
It is indeed highly dependent on how efficient the motor is, as well as drive train itself. Some locos don't seem to move so much as a millimeter, others can move a few inches when doing lots of reads. Somethign to keep in mind when building a program track intot he layout - a loco can easily creep up and cross the isolation gaps, linking the program track to the layout and either programmign everything on the track or connecting track power to the program track outputs and possibly damaging the command station. Hence the idea of a dead section between the program track and main - the loco will creep into the dead section and eventually stop responding to program commands before it bridges to the main.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker If you really want to see the lurch, program the loco with the shell off. If the motor is in the least bit visible, or at least the flywheel, you should see it pulse. There may be enough slop in the drive train that the loco doesn't physically move. ALso some decoders seem to alternate the polarity of the pulse so the loco doesn;t creep constantly in one direction. It is indeed highly dependent on how efficient the motor is, as well as drive train itself. Some locos don't seem to move so much as a millimeter, others can move a few inches when doing lots of reads. Somethign to keep in mind when building a program track intot he layout - a loco can easily creep up and cross the isolation gaps, linking the program track to the layout and either programmign everything on the track or connecting track power to the program track outputs and possibly damaging the command station. Hence the idea of a dead section between the program track and main - the loco will creep into the dead section and eventually stop responding to program commands before it bridges to the main. --Randy
Nicely said Randy.
To add to that, for example, if you use Decoder Pro (JMRI) and program the seven band equalizer of a Tsunami decoder in OPS mode, I've watched many a locomotive "walk" down the track moving for each band change.
Remind me, I'll post a video. Many of mine do not move at all, there's a bit of an audible sound, bu tno visible movement. Other give a slight jerk but after many CVs still haven't made any progress forwards or backwards. But some do move a good bit. That's when being programmed with a Digitrax system but for the most part not Digitrax decoders. Apaert from a Soundbug I don;t have any Digitrax decoders, mine are almost all TCS except for a couple steam locos with Loksound, a diesel with a Soundtraxx LC, and a diesel with a Tsunami.
Now that I think about it, it's not the Tsunami one that tries to run away, I noticed it AFTER I set up my new computer and test track for JMRI, and I haven't done any programming with the Tsunami since then - plus it's drawbar connected to the A unit so at the moment I'd have to program them both together. I can replicate it though, the loco that moves is going to be the only one currently in the JMRI roster on that computer.
TA462 cmarchan: There are many here new to DCC. Its important to take care when giving advice; and I say this to all who read this: Some of us are hobbyists with some installation experience, some of us have extensive electronic background experience that goes beyond the scope of this hobby. I have read a lot on this forum that taken out of context could be misconstrued as the absolute truth. This is a dangerous practice. It is great that everyone contributes and shares their experiences. But to dismiss a real condition because you have not experienced it is not fair to those trying to learn. DCC devices are many and their behavior differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Also, you have the different scales (N, HO, G, etc) different systems, different environments (Florida creates problems for electronics not seen in the Northeast for example). I simply ask everyone to keep your mind open, listen to the experience of others and contact the manufacturers if you have doubt. I agree with your first statement 100%. I'm not trying to dismiss anything though. I consider myself very informed on anything Digitrax related and I don't have the first clue about any other DCC operating system. If it has happened with anything Digitrax related then I've probably seen it. I have in my possesion probably over 150 loco's, all have decoders except for maybe a dozen. I've literally installed over 500 decoders for myself, clients and club members and have never seen a loco jump or surge while being programmed. That is a fact. Don't think I'm trying to dismiss it, I am curious to know why? I've searched around on the Digitrax forum and couldn't even find anything on the subject. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying it doesn't happen to me.
cmarchan: There are many here new to DCC. Its important to take care when giving advice; and I say this to all who read this: Some of us are hobbyists with some installation experience, some of us have extensive electronic background experience that goes beyond the scope of this hobby. I have read a lot on this forum that taken out of context could be misconstrued as the absolute truth. This is a dangerous practice. It is great that everyone contributes and shares their experiences. But to dismiss a real condition because you have not experienced it is not fair to those trying to learn. DCC devices are many and their behavior differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Also, you have the different scales (N, HO, G, etc) different systems, different environments (Florida creates problems for electronics not seen in the Northeast for example). I simply ask everyone to keep your mind open, listen to the experience of others and contact the manufacturers if you have doubt.
I agree with your first statement 100%. I'm not trying to dismiss anything though. I consider myself very informed on anything Digitrax related and I don't have the first clue about any other DCC operating system. If it has happened with anything Digitrax related then I've probably seen it. I have in my possesion probably over 150 loco's, all have decoders except for maybe a dozen. I've literally installed over 500 decoders for myself, clients and club members and have never seen a loco jump or surge while being programmed. That is a fact. Don't think I'm trying to dismiss it, I am curious to know why? I've searched around on the Digitrax forum and couldn't even find anything on the subject. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying it doesn't happen to me.
Thanks for being honest and candid; your experiences show that not all locomotives are effected by this situation.
I will add something to the mix here. The programming current may differ between Digitrax command station/booster units and/or revisions. Later Zephyr units (DCS50), for example, behave differently than the earliest models. Also, some people are using programming boosters, like the PowerPax from DCC Specialities, allowing greater output current, thereby increasing the output pulse.
Also, some decoders will acknowledge without using the motor circuit; the "lurch" does not occur in these cases.
Like Randy mentioned, for the "standard, (Digitrax, NCE, TCS) decoder" , movement is seen at the motor, removing the shell reveals it.
Also, the pulse can aid in troubleshooting after installation. I've seen several locos where the owner mentioned that fails to "read back". Upon inspection, a broken or loose wire to the motor was the culprit.
To test this, disconnect the motor wires on a DCC locomotive with a standard decoder and try to read any CV; it will fail to read back.
Maybe it is the system that makes the units jerk (move).
I use a NCE Power Cab and JMRI. I do a lot of sound installs, and use the Tsunami as a decoder for the sound installs. With this set up the loco will jerk or move a bit with each CV change.
Now this this not just one or two units, I have installed well over 500 decoders ( not all Tsunamis) but I know I see this movement in my installs. Maybe I missed one? But I can't recall not seeing one jerk with a CV change. I will be watching real close on my next installs to see if one does NOT move.
Hello ,
I am Z-scaler and drive the Hallmark Union Pacific Turbine in Z. I tried to programe the Soundtraxx TSU750 for this loco with Digitrax DCS 51 . You have to change the switch 7 from T to C, than the DCS 51 has more power . You dont need the PTB 100 . Now you can change adresses and all .
Regards, from Germany visit : www.rolfs-lokschuppen.de
The original post dealt with only Tsunami and Digitrax Zephyr.
I have used only Tsunami Soundtrax decoders and only the Zephyr Extra DC51.
I put the Zephyr in permanent blast mode. (whether it needs it or not)
I OPS mode program only.
At every write of a CV, all such equipped engines respond with a motor lurch. Sometimes, the engine jerks other times you only get a motor torque sound against the gearing. 99% lurch a bit
You should follow the instructions on the Digitrax site for large number decoder address changes.
For numbers under 100 (2 digit) you can simply follow the instructions for changing the address in the Zephyr manual without wandering around through the Tsunami's CVs.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed