jwils1 Are they saying that the Power Cab throttle can be converted to radio and used as a radio cab at the club, but when used as a Power Cab system at home (no SBa) it can only be used as a tethered throttle?
Are they saying that the Power Cab throttle can be converted to radio and used as a radio cab at the club, but when used as a Power Cab system at home (no SBa) it can only be used as a tethered throttle?
Yes, that is correct.
NCE radio throttles, including the converted PowerCab throttle, will only communicate via radio with an RB02 base station, and the RB02 is only supported by the SB3a and the PH Pro.
So the only way to use the PowerCab throttle as part of the PowerCab system is to use it tethered.
Remember, in the PowerCab system, the command station is in the throttle, so track power flows through the cord (tether). Twice, actually: Once from the power supply to the command station, and then back from the command station to the track.
And while it may be technically possible to use RF to send that 1.7 amps of current back and forth wirelessly, I would have to guess it's not economically viable to do so in a couple-hundred-dollar, hand-held hobbyist gadget!
Yes, that is my understanding.
Yes, since the part of a PowerCab system that generates the power and signal to the track is located in the handheld, it must remain plugged in unless you expand the system with some extra bits so that something else can be the command station/booster which would allow the PowerCab to be unplugged without stopping everything.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
So basically they're converting the power cab to a pro cab?
Springfield PA
If I was the OP I would be tempted to go Digitrax at home and NCE at the club. This would allow a really good comparison of the two systems, and especially the throttles. This might be the only way to really know which is best for him.
I basically did this, although I had them both at home, and was truly shocked to find that the throttle I thought I wouldn't like turned out to be the one that is now my absolute favorite! Had I not done this, I would have ended up with a very fine system, that I thought was going to be my favorite, but that I'm now glad I didn't go with.
Of course this cost me a litlle money as I had to sell the one system at a bit of a loss but I now have a system that is truly best for me in the long run. And the system used at home will probably be used the most so needs to be the best suited to the operator, even if it's different than the club system.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Hamltnblue So basically they're converting the power cab to a pro cab?
I think the confusion comes from folks referring to both the throttle (the part you hold in your hand) and the whole system (the throttle, the PCP, the power supply, the cables, etc) as a "PowerCab". But for the purposes of the radio conversion and what it does or doesn't do, it's important to keep them separate.
With that in mind:
The PowerCab's throttle has always been able to be used as a tethered pro cab throttle on a PH Pro or SB3a-based system.
Adding the radio option to the PowerCab's throttle allows it to be used as a radio pro cab throttle on an RB02-equipped system (which by definition has to be an SB3a or PH Pro-based system).
But once again, the radio option for the PowerCab throttle does not serve any purpose on the original PowerCab system itself, because the PowerCab system does not support the required RB02 base station.
Stevert Hamltnblue: So basically they're converting the power cab to a pro cab? I think the confusion comes from folks referring to both the throttle (the part you hold in your hand) and the whole system (the throttle, the PCP, the power supply, the cables, etc) as a "PowerCab". But for the purposes of the radio conversion and what it does or doesn't do, it's important to keep them separate. With that in mind: The PowerCab's throttle has always been able to be used as a tethered pro cab throttle on a PH Pro or SB3a-based system. Adding the radio option to the PowerCab's throttle allows it to be used as a radio pro cab throttle on an RB02-equipped system (which by definition has to be an SB3a or PH Pro-based system). But once again, the radio option for the PowerCab throttle does not serve any purpose on the original PowerCab system itself, because the PowerCab system does not support the required RB02 base station.
Hamltnblue: So basically they're converting the power cab to a pro cab?
Say What.
Lee
Let me clarify. I am comparing the following two systems.
Digitrax Super Chief Xtra $665 Vs NCE PH-Pro R $700 (msrp)
DT402D Duplex radio: $250 Pro Cab R: Simplex radio $250:
UR92 Duplex receiver $ $160 RB02 Base Station, $160
DCS 100 Booster, $285 PB 105 Booster, $160
PS 14 14 V, 300 ma, $12.95 P515, 5 amp, $50.
I'm sure both systems can be purchased from Tony's Trains for less, but that compares the two Manufacturer's Suggested Retain Price. I'm also sure I don't exactly know what I'm talking about. The web master at NCE could learn a lot by visiting the Digitrax web site as far as providing a description of each component in a system.
I also really dislike abbreviations and acronyms, and as a new DCC user am finding it hard to find definitions for: PO; PCP; AIU (I actually found 3 definitions for this); and several others. I think other new DCC users are likely also confused by these.
Jerry, I would like to know which of your two systems you settled on and why.
Our MR club uses the Pro Cab R, but with out turnout control, block detection, signaling or computer programing that I want to incorporate. JMRI doesn't think much of the NCE USB interface and prefers the Digitrax PR3. Lucky for me several of our club members have a Digitrax system at home and I am planning visits to their layout in the next couple days.
So that clarifies, for me, where I am at in my decision process. I'm still searching and comparing, mostly on line, and mostly looking for facts about what works. Thanks.
Capt. Brigg FranklinUSCG Licensed Marine OfficerCertified crazy train chaserCEO: Pacific Cascade Railway
Capt. Brigg Let me clarify. I am comparing the following two systems. Digitrax Super Chief Xtra $665 Vs NCE PH-Pro R $700 (msrp) DT402D Duplex radio: $250 Pro Cab R: Simplex radio $250: UR92 Duplex receiver $ $160 RB02 Base Station, $160 DCS 100 Booster, $285 PB 105 Booster, $160 PS 14 14 V, 300 ma, $12.95 P515, 5 amp, $50.
I am confused by this shopping list. Are you planning to buy two of everything? The itemized list has prices for things that are included in the package price listed at the top. The PS14, incidentally, is not enough to power the Digitrax system. 300ma is 3/10 of one amp. the system needs 5 amps. If it is for the UR92, a PS14 is included in the price of the UR92.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Brigg,
Dave is correct. For example, the NCE PH-Pro R DCC system comes from the following items:
$700 MSRP/$545 (Tony's Train Exchange)
Acronyms:
I agree with you on the NCE and Digitrax web site comparison, Brigg. Believe it or not, it's an improvement over the former one but still needs better descriptions and updated more frequently.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
On the Digitrax side, everything you listed is included in the Super Chief Xtra package. The only thing you need to add is a 5 amp power supply like the P515.
OK now I'm confused, we went from comparing adding radio to the starter sets to buying top of the line radio systems?
Capt. BriggJerry, I would like to know which of your two systems you settled on and why.
I settled on a Digitrax Zephyr plus a DT402D/UR92. The primary reason is that I really like the DT402D throttle. The smaller, closely spaced buttons really work well for me. Much easier for me to operate, even one-handed when uncoupling cars (using the speed buttons rather than the knobs). The larger NCE throttle, with buttons spaced farther apart was just not as easy or convenient for me.
I also like the two knobs for immediate control of two trains, prefer speed knobs over the thumb wheel, found a more positive feel to button pressing with the DT402D, and fewer button pressses required for throwing turnouts.
Both companies are great, wtih very nice, helpful people, but when I had the choice I found myself always wanting to pick up the DT402D rather than the NCE throttle. It is just more enjoyable for me to use.
So all you need to add to the Zephyr is:
DT402D Duplex radio: $250
UR92 Duplex receiver $ $160
rrinker OK now I'm confused, we went from comparing adding radio to the starter sets to buying top of the line radio systems? --Randy
Well, kinda. You can't add (functional) radio to the NCE PowerCab without basically turning it into (Sb3a) or replacing it with (PH Pro) a higher-level system that supports the RB02 radio base station.
1. OK, I really meant what is OP (me), maybe that means OPerator?
2. I am not upgrading anything. I got the club system wrong and that started the upgrade thing. I am going for the full meal deal one way or the other.
3. The list of parts under the package deals was just to compare parts of the package. I may eventually get a second wireless throttle, but it will likely be a UT4R.
4. I apparently put the PS 515 power supply in the wrong column, it a Digitrax thing.
5. I already own a Zephyr, a PR3 computer interface, & a PM42 Power manager, with several Digitrax decoders. I guess I already have one foot in the Digitrax pool.
Capt. Brigg 5. I already own a Zephyr, a PR3 computer interface, & a PM42 Power manager, with several Digitrax decoders. I guess I already have one foot in the Digitrax pool.
That would make the most practical and economical sense, given that you already have the above. However, if you want a system to match your club layout, the PH Pro-R would make sense. You'd then have your own radio ProCab throttle to use at the club.
Capt. Brigg 1. OK, I really meant what is OP (me), maybe that means OPerator?
OP is a reference to the Original Poster, ie, the person who started the thread.
No, both the Super CHief Xtra Duplex and the PH-Pro R need the P515 power supply.
I guess I don't know why you'd be looking at buying the SUper CHief when you already have a Zephyr?
Randy, You bring up several good questions.
1 I have the the DCS50 which is only 2.5 amps while the DCS100 is 5 amps, will they work together on the same LocoNet without shorting something out?2.What is the difference between the DCS50 and DCS51, Zephyr xtra?3. Will the DCS50 (Zephyr) interface with the DT402D throttle and UR92 receiver and the PR3 computer interface without the DCS100?4 Would it be cheaper to purchase the Super Chief Xtra than buying the separate components?5. The UR92 receiver and the PM 42 power manager (and a lot of other things) need an external power supply. Would a PS14 be enough to feed power to everything or do I need a PS515, 5 amp supply?
Questions, Questions, Questions, will there never be an end?
Capt. Brigg Randy, You bring up several good questions. 1 I have the the DCS50 which is only 2.5 amps while the DCS100 is 5 amps, will they work together on the same LocoNet without shorting something out?2.What is the difference between the DCS50 and DCS51, Zephyr xtra?3. Will the DCS50 (Zephyr) interface with the DT402D throttle and UR92 receiver and the PR3 computer interface without the DCS100?4 Would it be cheaper to purchase the Super Chief Xtra than buying the separate components?5. The UR92 receiver and the PM 42 power manager (and a lot of other things) need an external power supply. Would a PS14 be enough to feed power to everything or do I need a PS515, 5 amp supply? Questions, Questions, Questions, will there never be an end?
1- Yes, they will work together. The track sections must be completely isolated from each other and the booster is connected to the command station by a Loconet cable.
2- The Xtra has one more amp of power.
3- Yes, the Zephyr will interface with the wireless components. They connect via Loconet.
4- If you NEED the additional power it is cheaper to buy a set than the individual components. Do you NEED the extra power?
5- If you buy the Super Chief then you will need to buy the PS515. If you only buy a UR92 and a Throttle, the UR92 will come with a PS14. The PS515 is used to power the DCS 100.
Capt. Brigg Randy, You bring up several good questions. 1 I have the the DCS50 which is only 2.5 amps while the DCS100 is 5 amps, will they work together on the same LocoNet without shorting something out?
1 I have the the DCS50 which is only 2.5 amps while the DCS100 is 5 amps, will they work together on the same LocoNet without shorting something out?
Yes they will, one would have to be the command station, in your case the DCS100 would be the best, the Zephyr can then be made into a booster. Then the 2.5A output of the Z would power one power district, the 5A of the DCS another with the power districts being separated by gaped rails (both tracks) the loconet would link the two devices and you would still be able to use the throttle on the Z. The important point is that you cannot have 2 command stations at the same time so one has to have that function disabled.
Capt. Brigg2.What is the difference between the DCS50 and DCS51, Zephyr xtra?
An extra amp in power, functions F0-28, and ability to handle more locomotives. Visually very similar in other respects,
Capt. Brigg3. Will the DCS50 (Zephyr) interface with the DT402D throttle and UR92 receiver and the PR3 computer interface without the DCS100?
Yes it all links together with Loconet cables, I use my Z in just that way. Any Digitrax peripheral can work with any of the command stations, this is the power of loconet. PLus there are peripherals from other vendors that can interface loconet will work as well. It does not matter if the command station is a DCS50, 51 or 100
Capt. Brigg4 Would it be cheaper to purchase the Super Chief Xtra than buying the separate components?
Usually yes, especially when getting it from one of the on-line stores that discount the system.
Capt. Brigg5. The UR92 receiver and the PM 42 power manager (and a lot of other things) need an external power supply. Would a PS14 be enough to feed power to everything or do I need a PS515, 5 amp supply?
In many cases is is wise to use separate PS14's for these.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
simon1966 Capt. Brigg: 5. The UR92 receiver and the PM 42 power manager (and a lot of other things) need an external power supply. Would a PS14 be enough to feed power to everything or do I need a PS515, 5 amp supply? In many cases is is wise to use separate PS14's for these.
Capt. Brigg: 5. The UR92 receiver and the PM 42 power manager (and a lot of other things) need an external power supply. Would a PS14 be enough to feed power to everything or do I need a PS515, 5 amp supply?
Simon is correct
Digitrax generally does not recommend using the same power supply for different types of devices. For example, two UR92's off of one PS14 is okay, but a UR92 and a PM42 is not. This is due to differences in the power supply circuitry used within each family of devices.
simon1966 1 I have the the DCS50 which is only 2.5 amps while the DCS100 is 5 amps, will they work together on the same LocoNet without shorting something out? Yes they will, one would have to be the command station, in your case the DCS100 would be the best, the Zephyr can then be made into a booster. Then the 2.5A output of the Z would power one power district, the 5A of the DCS another with the power districts being separated by gaped rails (both tracks) the loconet would link the two devices and you would still be able to use the throttle on the Z. The important point is that you cannot have 2 command stations at the same time so one has to have that function disabled.
So the DCS50 and DT402D throttles would both "talk" to the DCS100 command station, (the DCS50 command station being shut down) which would then "talk" to both the DCS50 booster and the DCS100 booster, which would be hooked to separate rail blocks. Can additional throttles be connected in? What happens when a loco crosses the rail gap between blocks controlled by the different boosters?
Also, as long as I don't run more then 10 locos or 2.5 amps (I can't think I would need more) I can use the DCS50 as the command station with the DT402D throttle, UR92 receiver & PR3 PC interface. Separate power supplies should be used for each unit. And, can can additional boosters be added down stream of the DCS50 command station, if ever needed?
Finally, I picked up, from the bargain table, a LocoNet universal panel that has 4 ports on the front, two RJ12 connectors, an RCA plug, and a round 5 pin plug and three RJ12s in the back. I cannot find a part number or instructions for wiring it. I'm guessing, since it was cheap, it's discontinued. Any idea what it is and where to find instructions?
Thanks for all the feedback.
Yup, you can add additional boosters. This is eactly what my setup is:
DCS50, Zephyr, as command station. Track connections from Zephyr go to a bus that is right beind the fascia, feeding my Tam Valley Singlet stationary decoders.
Loconet cable AND ground wire to DB150 set up as a booster only.
Track output of DB150 to a PM42
PM42 outputs to each of 4 sections of my layout.
I will definitely never run more than 10 locos, not on my layout (actually, it would appear you can select and run 12 with the original Zephyr - makes me wonder if the Zephyr Xtra can't do 24) so I saw no reason to get a bigger command station. I probably didn't need the DB150 but I wanted a DT402 and needed some UP5's so I got a Super EMpire Builder Xtra for a REALLY great price.
Even my 'dream' layout that I off and on work n planning, with no set space limits, I don't see running enough locos to fill up the Xtra's 22 slots - maybe I don;t dream big enough but this is a whole railroad division plus 3 branches and even with 6+ operators I don;t see the 22 loco limit being hit. So I may never own a DCS100.
If you DO switch to a DCS100 for the command station and make the Zephyr a booster, the throttle in the Zephyr still works, so you can mount it near a yard or other fixed operating point and use it. The Zephyr output is a natural for powering stationary decoders independent of the track bus, 2.5 amps is a LOT of stationary decoders if you use Tortoise switch motors.
Capt. Brigg ... Can additional throttles be connected in? ...
...
Can additional throttles be connected in?
Yes.
Capt. Brigg ... What happens when a loco crosses the rail gap between blocks controlled by the different boosters? ...
What happens when a loco crosses the rail gap between blocks controlled by the different boosters?
If wired correctly, it will keep on running. If one booster is out of phase, it will cause a short and they will shut down. There might be a slight change in speed if the booster voltages don't match.
Capt. Brigg ... Also, as long as I don't run more then 10 locos or 2.5 amps (I can't think I would need more) I can use the DCS50 as the command station with the DT402D throttle, UR92 receiver & PR3 PC interface. Separate power supplies should be used for each unit...
Also, as long as I don't run more then 10 locos or 2.5 amps (I can't think I would need more) I can use the DCS50 as the command station with the DT402D throttle, UR92 receiver & PR3 PC interface. Separate power supplies should be used for each unit...
The DT402D will get power from Loconet when plugged in and from a 9-volt battery when operating wirelessly. The UR92 comes with a power supply. The PR3 does not need one when operating as a computer interface(gets it's power from USB), but doees need one to do standalone programming.
Capt. Brigg ...And, can can additional boosters be added down stream of the DCS50 command station, if ever needed?
...And, can can additional boosters be added down stream of the DCS50 command station, if ever needed?
You would have to divide the layout into power dirstricts, but boosters can certainly be added to the DCS50.
Capt. Brigg Finally, I picked up, from the bargain table, a LocoNet universal panel that has 4 ports on the front, two RJ12 connectors, an RCA plug, and a round 5 pin plug and three RJ12s in the back. I cannot find a part number or instructions for wiring it. I'm guessing, since it was cheap, it's discontinued. Any idea what it is and where to find instructions? ...
That would be a UP1.