So I've got a pretty good track plan drawn out and now I'm working on devising staging yards that allow trains to be turned and either return on the track it came in on or another track. What I have in mind is a 9 track yard, 180 degree turn on one end, 4 tracks for staging in each direction, 1 center track that allows for crossover from 1 direction to another, the open end of the turnback ladders out into the staging tracks, the other end of the staging tracks ladder down to the mainlines.
I'm definitely ging to need autoreversers and rail gaps to prevent shorts with DCC but I'm confused about where to put the gaps and reversers. I'm thinking I may be best off to isolate the ladders on both ends and run them off the autoreverser but I don't think that wuld be right for the loop. Should I include the loop with the ladder on that end? What about the center track?
Would the simplest solution be to treat the loop, loop end ladder and center track as 1 unit and ignore the staging tracks on either side except their turnouts on the loop end?
Sorry nothing drawn up just yet, though I have a pretty good idea of the track layout in my mind. I'm trying to come up with something that can be moved as the layout expands over the years, allows for continuous running or loop to loop running. Basically I want it all!
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
The easiest way to figure the wiring and gaps for a reverse loop is to visualize it without the other sidings. The gaps should go on all four rails at the frog end of the switch that forms the reverse loop. The loop itself should be where you wire in the auto reversing unit.
As a thought, you may want to put insulating gaps on both ends of your sidings as well. Even an inactive locomotive will draw some current from your DCC power pack. Insulating and switching each of these tracks will remove inactive locomotives from the load on the power pack.
any chance of a track plan???
A rough sketch on paper would be easy, getting it on te site is where I run into problems. Let's say I'm not computer literate. Any suggestions for that?
As for what I have in mind, I guess you could call the yard tracks sidings off the 2 mains except the center track which would be like a shared siding for both mains or a really long crossover. I imagine this would have to be considered part of the reverse loop since a train could come in on this track, go around the loop and leave from this track, though in practice it would more likely enter from this track and leave from another.
Cutting power to unsed trains is a good idea and easy, just need to figure out if the power is coming from the main buss or the reverser at this point.
I guess I could use multiple reversers and let them figure it out but that can get pricey.
Can you scan the rough sketch on paper and email it to one of us and we will post it for you?
That way, we can visualize it and make suggestions.
Rich
Alton Junction
Here is a general plan with some gaps. It may have some of what you want, but it also has block gaps for signals although it does show gaps for a wye and reverse loop. Block 11 is a reverse loop that would be connected to the output of an auto reverser.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
are the blocks done for showing which section trains are in?? or are they where you feel the breaks should be?.
locoworks are the blocks done for showing which section trains are in?? or are they where you feel the breaks should be?.
If you are referring to gandydancer's diagram, he posted that as an example for the OP to consider. We are still waiting for the OP, ruderunner, to post a diagram of his own layout.
A little digging and searching showed me a technique I can use to figure out where my gaps are, basically drawing out a stright line track plan then on each side of the stright line start drawing colored lines for right and left rails.
This became important as I was looking at how this staging yard will connect to the layout and realized I've designed something like a reverse loop inside of another reverse loop.
I don't have a scanner but the local library might. I'll try to draw something out and see if I can post it this weekend.
Thanks guys
yes i was richhotrain, my mistake. DOH!
ruderunner A little digging and searching showed me a technique I can use to figure out where my gaps are, basically drawing out a stright line track plan then on each side of the stright line start drawing colored lines for right and left rails.
ruderunner,
That is exactly the technique that I use to visually identify reverse polarity issues.
One rail is colored red, and one rail is colored blue. When blue meets red and red meets blue, bingo, there is a reverse polarity issue and a potential short unless some action is taken to reverse the polarity back once again to a matching polarity status.
Hope you make some progress this weekend with posting a track plan. If you still cannot figure out a way to post it, mail it to me via USPS and I will post it for you.
Thanks for the offer Rich. Does this site allow uploading line drawings or do they have to go through links like Photobucket? I see lot's of line drawings on the site and could probably muddle my way through uploading a Paint file to here.
I had a little time yesterday to draw out the straight line plan but didn't get to color coding yet. Then thought about using Paint since it would be easy to make corrections.
If it stops raining this weekend I can pick up my plywood for benchwork.
ruderunner Thanks for the offer Rich. Does this site allow uploading line drawings or do they have to go through links like Photobucket? I see lot's of line drawings on the site and could probably muddle my way through uploading a Paint file to here.
Nope. You gotta upload through a third party host like Photobucket or one of the others. If you have PowerPoint that is one way to do it. I suppose Paint is a possibility but that is pretty primitive.
What else do you have to computer draw a diagram on ?
ruderunner So I've got a pretty good track plan drawn out and now I'm working on devising staging yards that allow trains to be turned and either return on the track it came in on or another track. What I have in mind is a 9 track yard, 180 degree turn on one end, 4 tracks for staging in each direction, 1 center track that allows for crossover from 1 direction to another, the open end of the turnback ladders out into the staging tracks, the other end of the staging tracks ladder down to the mainlines. Sorry nothing drawn up just yet, though I have a pretty good idea of the track layout in my mind.
Sorry nothing drawn up just yet, though I have a pretty good idea of the track layout in my mind.
You're killing me. I keep re-reading your initial post, trying to visualize what you are trying to do. Is this drawing even close to what you have in mind?
You may need to resize the diagram, by clicking on the text below it, to see it properly.
Let me try this, like I'm using sectional track:
---------------------------<------------------------------------------------------->----\
<--------------------------------------------> )
>----------------------------------< )
- ----------------------<-------------------------------------------------> )
-----<--------------------<---------------------------------------------------------------->---\
where < and> are turnouts for the yard ladder, ) represents the loop at the end of staging and the / and\ are where the loop connects to the yard. Main lines enter from the left. Note the lower entry is a duoble track main that goes to single track on the visible portion of the layout, (red turnout)hence a reverse loop inside a reverse loop.
This is simplistic as far as the staging areas go, but they also have to interact with what amounts to another reverse loop and a Y midway through the track plan. The other end of the layout is much simpler.
Well that almost worked, forgot that text appears in red by default. Still the red turnout in the bottom of the diagram is on the visible mainline and 2 mains enter the bottom of the staging area. Trains loop around through staging and return on one of the lower mainlines before necking down to single track.
Got some work to do now but I'll try to draw out the stright line plan in Paint and maybe email it to you Rich.
If I am picturing this right, I see the end of an oval with a double ended yard on each side. The only reversing section is then the track in the center, I think that if you drawn things in a linear fashion, that's the section that is going to have a loop in it. If the picture in my head is right, you'll only need to gap that section, and use on autoreverser on it. The problem I see then is that it is the shortest track, and would limit your train size. So it might actually end up better to give it fixes phase, and reverse the whole layout around it.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Hi Ruderunner,
If you have a camera take a picture of the drawing and up load it to Photobucket and then post.
No camera, send a message to Santa. A camera is very usefull as a tool and to show your work on the forum. In fact a camera will improve your scenicking as it will spot things you never saw.
Happy Railroading
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
You would think that in the last 3 days I could have found a couple hours to draw this up in a computer file so it can get posted here but noooo!
I did find a half hour to start drawing a polarity diagram on paper and the results are surpisingly simple. Looks like I'll have at most 7 reversing sections on the whole layout but can combine a few and be able to use only 4 reversers. Some of these sections are low traffic and would be unlikely to have more than 1 train at a time.
Quick question on reversers: they aren't system specific are they? Meaning I can use say a Digitrax unit with a Lenz command station right?
An auto-reverser works on DCC current. Any brand of auto-reverser should work with any brand of DCC system.
ruderunner You would think that in the last 3 days I could have found a couple hours to draw this up in a computer file so it can get posted here but noooo! Looks like I'll have at most 7 reversing sections on the whole layout but can combine a few and be able to use only 4 reversers.
Looks like I'll have at most 7 reversing sections on the whole layout but can combine a few and be able to use only 4 reversers.
You're right, it would have been nice to draw a diagram so it could be posted here and others could help you instead of just speculating about what you are talking about.
While I suppose that it would be mathematically possible to have 7 reversing sections on a layout, it better be a pretty big layout. Otherwise, it would be one of the more complicated and poorly thought out layouts that I can imagine.
Well I did it. got a strightline diagram on file and redrew the color coding. Looks right to me but I'd still like a more experienced set of eyes on it.
Yes it kind of is a complicated plan but it's completely prototypical except the loops at the end of staging. Meaning there are no tracks in my plan that don't have a real life counterpart.
Rich, I can't find your email address to forward this to, want to shoot me a note so I can reply? Ruderunner1@aol.com
ruderunner Rich, I can't find your email address to forward this to, want to shoot me a note so I can reply? Ruderunner1@aol.com
I sent you an email.
Where you gap the rails is partly going to be determined on what brand and type of turnout you use.
DCC friendly turnouts are auto gapped at the frogs and between points.
The only place you would need to gap otherwise would be reverse loops. I would put insulated joiners at the divergent end of the turnout for reverse loop. (All 4 rails at the end where it opens up)
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Here are two diagrams that ruderunner asked me to post.
The first is a straight line diagram of his layout, and the second is a color coded rail diagram. I will let him explain these two diagrams. Hopefully, some help and advice can be provided regarding the reversing sections.
OK so the color coding is fairly straight forward, the red and blue are the DCC buss, green indicates reversing sections as I see em.
In the diagrams the staging yards are the 9 tracks leading into their respective loops at each end of the track plan. Note this also roughly follows the footprint of the benchwork, lengths are changed to fit it on one screen but the shape is correct.
The 3 loops nested together are an LDE of PRR Whiskey Island ore docks and is on the visible layout. This is a must have. Trains in Whiskey Island will include a dedicated switcher and a double headed road unit, but that would be about it. The 2 tracks leading to the loops go under the mainline, this is not a crossing.
In the upper left corner are 2 sections of main/branch that will run along the track at the top of the diagram into staging, most of this will be hidden but just a straight track behind building flats. These appear to make 2 "wyes" that happen to share 2 legs.
Looks like 7 reverse sections total but I feel I can combine the Whiskey Island loops on 1 reverser and the 2 wyes on 1 reverser. Total 4 reversers.
Maximum practical consist is 3 diesels though 2 units are more likely so if I make the reversing sections 36" long that should be enough to get the whole consist on the reversing section before polarity changes. I'll go longer where practical.
Other rail gaps will be added to break this up into power disctricts as needed but this is straight forward and just needs some breakers and plastic joiners.
Overall this is much simpler than I anticipated which likely means I did something wrong. I was most concerned with how the staging yards run directly into the return loop and the center track in particular but this appears to be a non issue. Still hammering out the actual track arrangement in the staging yards but electrically this should be accurate.
Oops forgot 2 important things:
All frogs are insulated, no power routing turnouts. My motive power has adequate power pickup to compensate for these brief gaps.
And thanks to RichHOtrain!
Very well done Rich!
DigitalGriffin Very well done Rich!
Thanks, DG
I have studied you diagrams and you are correct. You have 7 reversing sections, and you have correctly positioned the rail gaps to avoid shorts where reverse polarities meet.
You will definitely need a separate auto-reverse unit for the curve at the upper right and the curve at the lower right. That is two auto-reverse units.
There are two reversing sections at the upper left as you have indicated. Each will require its own auto-reverse unit unless you are willing to risk shorts if two trains simultaneously trip a single auto-reverse unit.
In the center right portion of the diagram, there are three reverse loops. As your diagram is drawn, each will require its own auto-reverse unit, although you might get away with one auto-reverse unit if the loops are so short that only one train at a time will be entering or exiting one of the reverse loops. Otherwise, you risk a short if two trains simultaneously trip a single auto-reverse unit.
I don't know what the actual dimensions of your layout will be or the direction and use of the various turnouts. However, it may be possible to alter the diagram where the three reverse loops are located in the center of the diagram so that the entire reverse loop, within the three reverse loops inside it, folds back onto itself requiring a single turnout, rather than two turnouts, where those three reverse loops branch off from the main layout. In that case, only one auto-reverse unit would be required to control the three reverse loops within a reverse loop.
Just some thoughts.