LS150's are probably the cheapest decoders for solenoid machines. They don't do very well with Tortoises because they cut off power after a certain amount of time. And as I discovered helping a friend install them on his layout, if you set it so it delivers power for 5 seconds, during that 5 seconds it will NOT accept another switch command.
So: Stall motors, NCE Switch-It or Switch-8 (Switch-It allows connection of pushbuttons so you can operate fromt he panel or fascia instead of trying to dial up switch addresses on the throttle)
Solenoid machines, like Atlas and Peco: Lenz LS150.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm not a fan of all this mixing and matching. I would have waited for the replacement Digitrax piece. Failing that, I would have taken everything back and bought a new total system in the brand of your choice.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Why not? That's the whole reason there is a DCC standard. I use NCE Switch-Its with my Digitrax system. I also use home built accessory decoders and servo controllers from Tam Valley. What about decoders? Do you only use decoders made by your system manufacturer? I don't use ANY Digitrax decoders, I find TCS to be superior and NCE decoders are great for basic non-BEMF decoders - at $12 each you can't beat them.
Lots of people prefer the NCE controller but realize the Digitrax Loconet is a superior bus for detection and signalling, and so combine both systems. The additional cool thing about Loconet is there are devices made by many manufacturers besides Digitrax that work with Loconet - Team Digital, CML, RR-Cirkits and others all make certified Loconet devices, so you're not limited to just the things Digitrax makes.
Thanks for all the feedback!!
OK, so it sounds like it will be easier to just control the DS64s with the NCE throttle and maybe the NCE Mini Panel mounted on the fascia.
And I can throw switches spanning multiple DS64s, sweet!!
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
rrinker LS150's are probably the cheapest decoders for solenoid machines. They don't do very well with Tortoises because they cut off power after a certain amount of time. And as I discovered helping a friend install them on his layout, if you set it so it delivers power for 5 seconds, during that 5 seconds it will NOT accept another switch command. So: Stall motors, NCE Switch-It or Switch-8 (Switch-It allows connection of pushbuttons so you can operate fromt he panel or fascia instead of trying to dial up switch addresses on the throttle) Solenoid machines, like Atlas and Peco: Lenz LS150.
i think they are cheapest cos they don't have a built in CDU for twin coil machines!! if you have some turnouts that are 'sticky' without a CDU you could have some issues. with stall motors what you can do with the 150's is try and make sure a route doesn't have more than 2 turnouts connected to any one LS150. it may mean a few longer wires in places but careful planning could help the slowness aspect if using stall motors..
A point of clarification for me:
Initially I want to operate just 9 of my twin-coil switch machines only from my NCE throttle, either individually or via routes using the NCE macros.
Could I do this with (3) DS44 connected together with (2) Loconet cables, and including a PS14 power supply, and with only one of the DS44 connected to the track?
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Jerry,
Do you really mean DS44's? Those are for stall motor's only and they do not have a loconet connection. They get commands and power only through their red and black track connections.
Martin Myers
I assume you mean DS64? The DS44 is a basic stationary decoder for Tortoises.
THEORETICALLY this would work, however if the ONLY source of routes in NCE macros, there is no need to make the Loconet connections. You'd also need soemthign to provde Loconet 'termination' since the DS64 can't do this. It's really just a current source, you could build one, or else you'd have to use a Loconet device in the chain that can, like the BDL-168 block detector. The only reason you'd need a Loconet connection would be if you wanted to program routes int eh DS64 that included turnouts connected to a different DS64 - if you do all the routes via NCE Macros then just connect each DS64 to the track and assign addresses. The Macro can operate turnouts on any combination of stationary controllers, so for example Macro A could operate the turnotu on port 1 of DS64 #1, the turnouts on ports 3 and 4 of DS64 #2, and the turnout on port 2 of DS64 #3, all at once.
I believe you also need the aux power to utilize the capacitor discharge supply built in to the DS64. With twin coil motors I'd also think one PS14 per DS64 rather than try to share.
Thanks Randy. Yes, I meant DS64. So, for me, it looks like (3) DS64 and (3) PS14 would do the job. Or, I could use (2) Lenz LS150 and one old DC power pack with AC accessory power available. This might be better as I would only need to use one electrical outlet for the power supply.
Ya I have the PECO switch machines and I have a PS14 for each DS64, I will have like a total of (7) DS64s to control a total of 28 PECO switches.
Randy, do I need the Aux power? Or do I just use the PS14s?
You need EITHER a PS14 or a 12-14V DC power supply to connect to the AUX+/- terminals. The PS14 plugs right in to the socket next to the Loconet connections. Alsom, if you have crossovers, they CLAIM the DS64 output can drive 2 twin coil switch motors, so maybe you can free up an output or two.
The DS64 quite easily throws two turnouts at once from one output. I have 3 of them doing just that.
Ah really? That will save me money! Plus it's easier to not have to program the routes for the cross-overs.
So to make sure, I have the PECO switch machines, I was told that they take more power because the PECO switches are designed.
Please confirm, I'm about ready to start wiring up like 2 of the DS64s.
Thanks!
They work on my N scale crossovers. Far as I know the same PL10 motor is used on HO. Just hook one up and try it.
***, by the time we get done discussing all of this, that replacement DCS100 would have been in.
MotleyYa I have the PECO switch machines and I have a PS14 for each DS64, I will have like a total of (7) DS64s to control a total of 28 PECO switches. Randy, do I need the Aux power? Or do I just use the PS14s?
mfm37 ***, by the time we get done discussing all of this, that replacement DCS100 would have been in.Martin Myers
TA462Phoebe Vet I'm not a fan of all this mixing and matching. I would have waited for the replacement Digitrax piece. That's what I would have done as well.
Phoebe Vet I'm not a fan of all this mixing and matching. I would have waited for the replacement Digitrax piece.
I'm not a fan of all this mixing and matching. I would have waited for the replacement Digitrax piece.
That's what I would have done as well.
Yeah, no kidding!
I would have waited, too, especially when you consider all that that LocoNet brings to the table.
I'm in the process now of setting up my yard throat/engine servicing facility/caboose tracks using four DS64's and Tortii. When I'm done, I'll be able to align all the turnouts from the mainline to a yard track by pushing a single button on a small control panel, or by sending a single switch command from my DT4* throttles, or by clicking on that yard track on my JMRI panel on the computer.
That'll all be accomplished by using the DS64's routes and inputs, combined with LocoNet communications to tie everything together. No muss, no fuss, you just plug it in and it works!
Oh, and to address the power supply issue:
Each DS64 draws a max of 300ma, but I'd have to think that's while recharging the internal CD unit for solenoid machines. So even with four Tortii (15 ma each) active at once, I'll probably be drawing significantly less. Therefore, my plan is to run the four DS64's in the yard throat area off of a single, 1 amp PS14-type supply using something similar to this, with OPSW 9 closed on my DS64's. Once it's up and running, I'll monitor the current draw. If it's too much for that supply, I have another 3 amp supply I can substitute. But I really think that would be overkill...
Steve
jwils1 MotleyYa I have the PECO switch machines and I have a PS14 for each DS64, I will have like a total of (7) DS64s to control a total of 28 PECO switches. Randy, do I need the Aux power? Or do I just use the PS14s? Wow....(7) PS14 sounds like power overkill to me. I powered (5) Lenz LS150 with one small DC power pack. Is there any way to reduce the number of PS14? I'm talking about a non-Loconet installation.
Since you have chosen to give up Loconet, you have to power your DS64s from track power. That is the only way your command station will be able to send switch commands to them. Of course without Loconet, the DS64s will be unable to send commands to other components. The PS14s would, therefor seem to be superfluous.
OK I am way confused here.
Randy tells me that the DS64s need a PS14 to power them AND also need to connect the DS64 using the TRACK A and TRACK B connections right?
So please confirm what exactly I need to wire up?
Edit: I just called Digitrax support as well, and indeed I do NOT have to use the PS14 power supplies when using the DS64s track connections.
I have brain damage now... good lord.
I have a Digitrax Super Chief. I have 8 DS64s. While it is not my intention to do it forever, at the present time they are all powered from the Track A&B terminals. They work fine. Because I also have them connected by Loconet, they communicate with each other as well.
The only PS14s I have are connected to the PR3 and the UR92.
I've heard more than a few stories about DS64's acting up when using track power via the Track A&B terminals. Switching to an external power supply seems to be the universal cure. My guess is that it's caused by voltage spikes and the same ringing on the track bus that "terminators" are supposed to fix.
Plus, if your track is shut down, so are your DS64's So if someone runs up against a turnout thrown against them and shorts that power district, you can't correct it by just throwing the turnout the right way.
For that reason, I think an external power supply is the way to go. Unfortunately, if you're not using Loconet, you don't have that choice...
We're getting mixed up here between peopel using DS64's with Digitrax systems, and peopel usign DS64's with other DCC systems.
With Digitrax - do NOT connect track power, DO connect a PS14 or some for of aux power. How much you need depends on the switch motors you are driving - runnign Tortoises you can easily power more than one DS64 froma single PS14. Driving solenoid machines you need enough power to recharge the internal CD supply in a timely fashion.
Using other systems: Track power is the only way you can do it, because the track connection is the only way for the DCC commands to get to the DS64 This does expose you to the same issue Digitrax users sometimes have when connectign DS64's to track power - track power isn't as smooth as a dedicated power supply, and it seems the memory in the DS64 is a bit touchy when the power supply isn't 'clean'. WHat hapens is the configuration sometimes gets scrambled. Don't panic - it's actually a very small percentage of people have this problem, so it could very well depend on how far along the bus fromt eh booster the DS64's connect. I woudl strngly recommend using circuit breakers to make multiple power districts and put the DS64s on their own so a short on the track won't also shut down the DS64.
The other option for non-Digitrax users is to build a standalone Loconet (no Digitrax command station), however your only option for then controlling the turnouts would be via computer or else with local pushbuttons connected to the DS64 inputs. If you do that then it's kind of pointless having the DS64s, you could just have pushbuttons and no decoder, unless you were implementing a dispatcher control panel on the computer and didn;t need local control of the turnouts.
I'll give the example again - this is something ONLY Loconet can do. All the popular DCC systems have a computer interface, and all of them except MRC work with JMRI and as far as I know, RR&Co also supports all systems. However, only Loconet works like this: If I create a computer panel with a control that operates a turnout via a DS64 or really ANY stationary decoder (Lenz LS-150, NCE Switch-It, etc), I can operate the turnotu via the computer OR by dialing up the address on the throttle (so far, this works liek this with any system). However, if I do this from anything but a Loconet system, and operate the turnout fromt he throttle, the 'knob' on the computer panel will not move, and will not be in sync with the actual position of the turnout. With Loconet though, when I oeprate the turnout through the throttle, the computer panel will change as well - because with Loconet, an interface device plugged in to the Loconet can 'see' the data that comes from any throttle. With the other systems, the interface acts like a throttle and can GENERATE any required command (for programming, running a loco, or operating an accessory) but is not capable of seeing the commands that come from another throttle.
I just hooked my first DS64 I have with track power it works just fine!!!
OMG, I just threw my first switch with the NCE throttle, AND IT WORKED!!
LOL.. I'm all excited now... Next test is connecting two switches, the cross-over to the single output of the DS64. Will report back later.
Stevert I've heard more than a few stories about DS64's acting up when using track power via the Track A&B terminals. Switching to an external power supply seems to be the universal cure. My guess is that it's caused by voltage spikes and the same ringing on the track bus that "terminators" are supposed to fix. Plus, if your track is shut down, so are your DS64's So if someone runs up against a turnout thrown against them and shorts that power district, you can't correct it by just throwing the turnout the right way. For that reason, I think an external power supply is the way to go. Unfortunately, if you're not using Loconet, you don't have that choice...Steve
For that reason, I think an external power supply is the way to go. Unfortunately, if you're not using Loconet, you don't have that choice...Steve
Option Switch 08 is recommended to be closed when using multiple track-powered DS64's. This delays the power up of the units. I wonder if that has caused problems for some.
You can still add a PS14 in a non-loconet system. I just wish there was a way to share the PS14 between several units. One per DS64 seems a bit much.
MotleyI just hooked my first DS64 I have with track power it works just fine!!! OMG, I just threw my first switch with the NCE throttle, AND IT WORKED!! LOL.. I'm all excited now... Next test is connecting two switches, the cross-over to the single output of the DS64. Will report back later.
That's great. Sounds like you're having some fun. Are you going to try them all track-powered or do you plan to use the PS14's?
jwils1Stevert I've heard more than a few stories about DS64's acting up when using track power via the Track A&B terminals. Switching to an external power supply seems to be the universal cure. My guess is that it's caused by voltage spikes and the same ringing on the track bus that "terminators" are supposed to fix. Plus, if your track is shut down, so are your DS64's So if someone runs up against a turnout thrown against them and shorts that power district, you can't correct it by just throwing the turnout the right way. For that reason, I think an external power supply is the way to go. Unfortunately, if you're not using Loconet, you don't have that choice...Steve Option Switch 08 is recommended to be closed when using multiple track-powered DS64's. This delays the power up of the units. I wonder if that has caused problems for some. You can still add a PS14 in a non-loconet system. I just wish there was a way to share the PS14 between several units. One per DS64 seems a bit much.
The reason for closing OPSW 8 is to avoid an excessive inrush when powering up the rails. In other words, to avoid the "sound decoder problem" that looks like a short and causes your circuit breakers to cycle. That shouldn't cause memory problems, although I guess anything's possible.
And if you want to power multiple DS64's from a single power supply, go right ahead as long as the total current draw doesn't exceed the power supply's rating. Look at my first post in this thread to see how I'm (easily) doing it.
Steve,
Thanks. I didn't understand the daisy chain cable when I first looked at it. That does look like an easy way to share the power.
jwils1Steve, Thanks. I didn't understand the daisy chain cable when I first looked at it. That does look like an easy way to share the power.
Yup, my kid was adding yet another effect to his pedal board and was using one of those cables. I saw it and said, "Hmm, let me take a look at that for a minute..."
Just be careful about using an effects-pedal power supply. ISTR the one he needed was only 9v and center negative.
Ahhhhh crap!! I think I fried my Athearn SD45 non-DCC loco. I didn't know I could not run it with the NCE system. When I placed the loco on the track, it made a whirring sound, had it on there for about two minutes.
Now when I hooked up my DC to the track, my loco is dead. It actually moved a little bit with 100% throttle, and now it's completely dead.
Did I kill it?
That's unfortunate. Funny electrical noises should be investigated immediately. NCE never built that capability into their systems because of the risks of running analog engines on DCC.
Make me suspect the title of this thread.