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Cross-over bewteen 2 power districts causing locos to short ?

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  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: WSOR Northern Div.
  • 1,559 posts
Posted by WSOR 3801 on Saturday, February 21, 2009 4:13 PM

 The boosters should be Loconet-ed together, no cab plug ins or anything between them.  Pretty much making a separate Loconet between the boosters.  From the DCS, one plug should go to the other booster only.  The other plug can go to all other Loconet devices. A heavier gauge ground wire also helps.

Try hooking the other booster flipping Rail A-B.  If that doesn't work, maybe some of the connections out of the circuit breakers might be out of phase.  When hooking up PM42s on the old club layout, there were 3 out of 8 blocks that were out of phase.  Took a little trial and error to get it figured out. 

Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Friday, February 20, 2009 10:43 PM

 Ground wire won't put them into the same phase but it's a good idea to add a larger gauge wire between the two ground wires on the boosters. There is already a common connection through pins 2 and 5 of the loconet cable. Relying on those two very small wires to carry the load during a short circuit is not the best practice.

 Martin Myers

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: St. Louis, MO
  • 941 posts
Posted by river_eagle on Friday, February 20, 2009 9:51 PM

do you have the ground wire connected to the boosters? when using multiple digitrax boosters the ground connection needs to be made between them to put them into the same phase. 

When in doubt, rule #1 applies  Central Missouri Railroad Association cmrraclub.com
  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Friday, February 20, 2009 9:50 PM

 Swap the track A and Track B output wires from one of the Boosters. The DB200 would be my choice.  Use the steps that maxman posted to test with a meter.

I know, I know, the red and black wires are each connected to the same outputs but some where along the line, either Digitrax didn't get the message and some of their boosters are swapped internally to others or you have a loconet cable that is reversed Swapping the outputs on one booster will solve it.

We have three at our club and one of them has been reversed from day one. We ordered themat the same time and received them the same day. 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Gahanna, Ohio
  • 1,987 posts
Posted by jbinkley60 on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:48 PM

tstage

spearo
The power districts are new to my layout also. I started laying track before I bought the second booster and the circuit breakers.  All track and switch machines were wired to the DCS100 on a common bus and with this arrangement all worked fine.  I was able to run locos across this gap with no problems.  The shorts did not start until I installed the other booster (DB200) and the circuit breakers.

Tom,

Just to clarify: Were the new power districts installed/in place/tested when everything was "wired to the DCS100 on a common bus and with this arrangement all worked fine"?  Or, were these added after testing your wiring with the DCS100 but prior to the addition of the DB200/circuit breakers?  Since you say that your problems didn't start until you installed your new booster/breakers, logic dictates that's where you problem lies.

Tom, how big is your layout?  How many locomotives do you plan on running at a time?  The reason for asking is that, to me - you've got a horrendous amount of amperage powering an N-scale layout.  Even 4 power districts and operating turnouts, your 5-amp booster should be quite adequate for the job.

I'm no electrical guru but...is it possible that the 8-amp booster is tripping the 5-amp booster when the train is crossing the gap?  Does each booster need to be the same amperage?

My My 2 cents...

Tom

Tom,

 No, the boosters can be of different amperage.  I have 2 - 5A boosters and an 8A booster running just fine.  What he does need to do is tune the breakers so that they trip out before the boosters.  Also the Digitrax boosters have an option for 1/8th second or 1/2 second shutdown.  I set mine for 1/2 second.  If I were him I'd find ths short first, then focus on fine tuning the breaker and booster settings.

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Gahanna, Ohio
  • 1,987 posts
Posted by jbinkley60 on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:41 PM

spearo

I have a cross-over between two power districts that is causing my locos to short when they cross the gap and I am now almost bald because of pulling my hair out trying to find where the problem is.  Hopefully someone here can help me with this.

I have four power districts, controlled by two boosters, set up on my layout that is currently under construction.  The layout is basically a double track oval with a few switching areas inside of the oval. The four power districts are; outer track on the oval with yard, right side of the inner oval track and right side switching areas, left side of the inner oval track and left side switching areas,  and the switch machines.

DCS100 (5 amp) connected to a PS-2 circuit breaker (Tony’s Trains) divides power between the left and right sides of the inner portions of the layout.

DB200 (8 amp) connected to a PSX-2 circuit breaker (DCC Specialties) divides power between the outer oval with the yard and the turnout machines.

I have an opposing switch on each track that forms a cross-over from the inner to the outer track.  All turnouts are Peco electro-frog powered by a Hare-Tortoise combo.  I have double gapped the rails in between the switches and the gaps are offset by 1/4 inch

When I run a loco across this gap I am getting a short.  If the loco is run from outer loop to inner loop the DB200 shorts, if run from inner to outer loop the DCS100 shorts.  Yes, the shorts apparently by-pass the circuit breakers and the booster sounds with the short, not sure why.
 
HELP?????  My experience is very limited here.  I’ve been n-scaling for about four years now and this is my second layout that I am building but my first with more than one power district.  The power districts are new to my layout also. I started laying track before I bought the second booster and the circuit breakers.  All track and switch machines were wired to the DCS100 on a common bus and with this arrangement all worked fine.  I was able to run locos across this gap with no problems.  The shorts did not start until I installed the other booster (DB200) and the circuit breakers.
 
The first thing I thought of was did I reverse the bus wires going/coming from the breakers and no, they are not, red goes to red and black goes to black.
 
Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks.
 
Tom

 

If you've tried reversing the wires coming off the breaker to the track on one side of the gap then the next thing to look at is a possible Loconet railsync problem.  Generally those don't cause a dead shorting but a quick short and the the booster or breaker recovers, depending on what tripped out.  Do you have a Loconet directly connecting the two boosters together or are there other Loconet devices in the middle ?  If there are other devices, remove them and try connecting the two directly together with a Loconet cable and ensure that the cable is straight through.  If the Loconet cable already connects them directly together, inspect the cable and ensure it is a straight through cable and the pins aren't flipped.  I'd also suggest trying another cable to be sure. 

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Friday, February 20, 2009 2:01 PM

Do you have an electrical test meter?  If so, set the meter to AC volts at whatever scale range is above track voltage (maybe 200 or 300 volts).  Connect one lead from the meter to the track on one side of the gap, and attach the second lead to the same rail on the other side of the gap.  You should read zero volts.  If you do, that means that both rails are in phase (or have the same polarity if you will) and your problem lies elsewhere.  If you read a voltage across the gap, you have a track connection swapped.

Checking this one item will eliminate a common culprit.

Moderator
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Posted by tstage on Friday, February 20, 2009 1:39 PM

spearo
The power districts are new to my layout also. I started laying track before I bought the second booster and the circuit breakers.  All track and switch machines were wired to the DCS100 on a common bus and with this arrangement all worked fine.  I was able to run locos across this gap with no problems.  The shorts did not start until I installed the other booster (DB200) and the circuit breakers.

Tom,

Just to clarify: Were the new power districts installed/in place/tested when everything was "wired to the DCS100 on a common bus and with this arrangement all worked fine"?  Or, were these added after testing your wiring with the DCS100 but prior to the addition of the DB200/circuit breakers?  Since you say that your problems didn't start until you installed your new booster/breakers, logic dictates that's where you problem lies.

Tom, how big is your layout?  How many locomotives do you plan on running at a time?  The reason for asking is that, to me - you've got a horrendous amount of amperage powering an N-scale layout.  Even 4 power districts and operating turnouts, your 5-amp booster should be quite adequate for the job.

I'm no electrical guru but...is it possible that the 8-amp booster is tripping the 5-amp booster when the train is crossing the gap?  Does each booster need to be the same amperage?

My My 2 cents...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • 106 posts
Cross-over bewteen 2 power districts causing locos to short ?
Posted by spearo on Friday, February 20, 2009 12:27 PM

I have a cross-over between two power districts that is causing my locos to short when they cross the gap and I am now almost bald because of pulling my hair out trying to find where the problem is.  Hopefully someone here can help me with this.

I have four power districts, controlled by two boosters, set up on my layout that is currently under construction.  The layout is basically a double track oval with a few switching areas inside of the oval. The four power districts are; outer track on the oval with yard, right side of the inner oval track and right side switching areas, left side of the inner oval track and left side switching areas,  and the switch machines.

DCS100 (5 amp) connected to a PS-2 circuit breaker (Tony’s Trains) divides power between the left and right sides of the inner portions of the layout.

DB200 (8 amp) connected to a PSX-2 circuit breaker (DCC Specialties) divides power between the outer oval with the yard and the turnout machines.

I have an opposing switch on each track that forms a cross-over from the inner to the outer track.  All turnouts are Peco electro-frog powered by a Hare-Tortoise combo.  I have double gapped the rails in between the switches and the gaps are offset by 1/4 inch

When I run a loco across this gap I am getting a short.  If the loco is run from outer loop to inner loop the DB200 shorts, if run from inner to outer loop the DCS100 shorts.  Yes, the shorts apparently by-pass the circuit breakers and the booster sounds with the short, not sure why.

 

HELP?????  My experience is very limited here.  I’ve been n-scaling for about four years now and this is my second layout that I am building but my first with more than one power district.  The power districts are new to my layout also. I started laying track before I bought the second booster and the circuit breakers.  All track and switch machines were wired to the DCS100 on a common bus and with this arrangement all worked fine.  I was able to run locos across this gap with no problems.  The shorts did not start until I installed the other booster (DB200) and the circuit breakers.

 

The first thing I thought of was did I reverse the bus wires going/coming from the breakers and no, they are not, red goes to red and black goes to black.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

Tom

 

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