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okay... i'm letting the but bite me, but I have some questions (about DCC)

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  • From: Northeast OH
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Posted by NeO6874 on Thursday, October 2, 2008 5:29 PM
 DeadheadGreg wrote:

i'm still on the fence....     i don't know if i like the idea of having to go in and solder a decoder into the circuit board of every one of my engines.

 

It's not to the board per se.  If a loco already has a board in it, there will usually be a 8 or 9-pin connector somewhere with a "jumper" board in place to allow for the loco to run on DC.  You just have to pull that jumper out, and replace with the decoder of choice (that uses the same connector for obviuos reasons).

Hardwiring a decoder involves you soldering the red and black wires to the power pickups (leads from the wheels), the orange/grey to the motor, and the Blue along with the white/grn/yellow to lights (each of the wht/grn/ylw is for a different light feature - eg foreward, reverse, MARS, ditch...). If it's a sound decoder I think there's also violet.  The BLUE wire is the lighting common (ground) for all of the light functions (I think, it might be the white -- if so replace Blue with White above and continue as normal Wink [;)]Thumbs Up [tup])

 

Since I have little cash (college student here, if you don't know) I pick up "non-DCC ready" (or friendly, for that matter) locos. Because I am modelling sometime between 1930 and 1950(ish...), the majority of my locos are steam, and all but two are die-cast kits... so hardwiring is the only way to go for me.

 

When they're running smooth, they'll pull a 40' (prototype) boxcar... 

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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  • From: Delmar, NY
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Posted by DeadheadGreg on Thursday, October 2, 2008 4:03 PM

i just liked the ease that the NCE system allowed for over at the NEB&W.  Select lead loco.  Select last loco.  Select locos in between.  Done. 

 

i'm still on the fence....     i don't know if i like the idea of having to go in and solder a decoder into the circuit board of every one of my engines.

PHISH REUNION MARCH 6, 7, 8 2009 HAMPTON COLISEUM IN HAMPTON, VA AND I HAVE TICKETS!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! [quote user="jkroft"]As long as my ballast is DCC compatible I'm happy![/quote] Tryin' to make a woman that you move.... and I'm sharing in the Weekapaug Groove Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world....
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Posted by jalajoie on Thursday, October 2, 2008 10:17 AM
 DeadheadGreg wrote:

yeah that whole Advanced Consisting thing is EXACTLY why I don't want to dig too deep into DCC.  Unnecessarily complicated and confusing. 

anyway...    if you have a DCC-equipped engine, can it still be run by regular DC?

There is no need to dig deeply into DCC to built consist with any system. Once you have built one or two it is then very easy and straightforward.

Jack W.

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  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, October 2, 2008 9:31 AM
 DeadheadGreg wrote:

anyway...    if you have a DCC-equipped engine, can it still be run by regular DC?

All but one of my DCC equipped locos can run on DCC and DC with no problem. The one loco that doesn't has a decoder I picked up used. It's probably been set to DCC only. Some people do this to avoid DCC runaways.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
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Running Bear Enterprises
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beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by DeadheadGreg on Thursday, October 2, 2008 9:25 AM

yeah that whole Advanced Consisting thing is EXACTLY why I don't want to dig too deep into DCC.  Unnecessarily complicated and confusing. 

anyway...    if you have a DCC-equipped engine, can it still be run by regular DC?

PHISH REUNION MARCH 6, 7, 8 2009 HAMPTON COLISEUM IN HAMPTON, VA AND I HAVE TICKETS!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! [quote user="jkroft"]As long as my ballast is DCC compatible I'm happy![/quote] Tryin' to make a woman that you move.... and I'm sharing in the Weekapaug Groove Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world....
  • Member since
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Posted by jalajoie on Thursday, October 2, 2008 8:18 AM
 DeadheadGreg wrote:

wow thanks for the replies.   Could someone explain the difference between regular and advanced consisting?  The NEB&W has NCE, and all I did with that was select the lead loco, then select the last loco, and then I would just select the locos in between.  Very easy. 

I was thinking about going with NCE because of my experience at the NEB&W.....  but I just got this thing at a steal. 

And what does a hardwire decoder mean? 

 

Here is what I found on Tony's site: http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/consisting-guide.htm

Hardwiring decoder means you have to solder every wires to the engine motor and lights,  as oppose to plug and play decoders.

Jack W.

  • Member since
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  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:03 AM
Regular consisting, aka simple consisting is simply setting two or more locos to the same address and running them together. I do this all the time with the EZ-Command. As far as advanced consisting goes, well, there are people here who can explain that far better than I can.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Delmar, NY
  • 671 posts
Posted by DeadheadGreg on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 10:51 PM

wow thanks for the replies.   Could someone explain the difference between regular and advanced consisting?  The NEB&W has NCE, and all I did with that was select the lead loco, then select the last loco, and then I would just select the locos in between.  Very easy. 

I was thinking about going with NCE because of my experience at the NEB&W.....  but I just got this thing at a steal. 

And what does a hardwire decoder mean? 

 

PHISH REUNION MARCH 6, 7, 8 2009 HAMPTON COLISEUM IN HAMPTON, VA AND I HAVE TICKETS!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! [quote user="jkroft"]As long as my ballast is DCC compatible I'm happy![/quote] Tryin' to make a woman that you move.... and I'm sharing in the Weekapaug Groove Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world....
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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 9:05 PM
 jalajoie wrote:
... as the Express does not support Universal consisting.


That is why I was asking. The manual for the Express has informaion for both the Express cabs and Advanced cabs because you can plug an Advanced cab into an Express base staion and use the features of the advanced cab. Some people miss the parts that say "(Prodigy Advance Cab only)" and don't understand why they can't get some "features" of the Express to work.

I did some searching on this topic and you are right, there have been several people complain about not being able to set the direction when setting up a consist with the Express. There is an easier work around other than programming CV29 and that is to program CV19 manually instead of using the consist function of the express cab, but that is not the point. The point is, the documentation is wrong. What is really sad is that MRC knows about this error and they have not corrected the manual. If you go to their website and download the manual, it is still wrong, but there is a tips and tricks file dated 05-03-07 that mentions the fact that you can not set the direction of locos in a consist when using the Express.
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Posted by jalajoie on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 4:27 PM

 CSX Robert wrote:
 jalajoie wrote:
... For instance try to consist two locos back to back following the Express documentation and you will not be able to succeed...


Just curious - were you trying "Advanced Consisting" or "Universal (Old-Style) Consisting"?

First it is not with my own system however it must be Advanced Consisting, as the Express does not support Universal consisting.

Jack W.

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    February 2007
  • From: Christiana, TN
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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 4:16 PM
 jalajoie wrote:
... For instance try to consist two locos back to back following the Express documentation and you will not be able to succeed...


Just curious - were you trying "Advanced Consisting" or "Universal (Old-Style) Consisting"?
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Posted by jalajoie on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 9:47 AM

Your original intention of selling it on ebay is the best option and consider one of the following Digitrax Zephy, MRC Prodigy Advance or NCE Power Cab.

I know from experience the Express does not do everything the manual says it does. My feeling is some of the Advance documentation found its way into the Express one, therefore the manual for the Express can't be trusted. For instance try to consist two locos back to back following the Express documentation and you will not be able to succeed. The awkward way around, is to always tinker with CV29 not a very good solution to me.

Jack W.

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Posted by NeO6874 on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:49 PM

1. Yes, to a degree.  There are some decoders that are better "fits" for different applications.  You'll have to research a little on that.

2. I'd say either the NCE 10/$120 ones (forget the model at the moment) or TCS T1, though I've only used the NCE ones.  Note that both of these are (to my knowledge) hardwire decoders.

3. Depends -- If I'm not confusing myself at the moment, you can have sound/motot or sound only.  sound only would work for B-unit diesel locos, and sound/motor for everything else that needs to move.

4.  yes.  Only thing is with newer decoders you might not be able to get at all the functions (eg if you only have functiona 0-8, and the decoder has 0-12, you can't get at 9-12 with your system).

5. Per the DCC spec, every decoder has to play nice with every system (see 4).

6. Maybe, I don't know how many features it supports.

7. yes... make sure you have some form of positive shutoff before switching over -- IE the layout is run as DC ONLY or DCC only, running both at the same time could fry the DC and/or DCC systems.

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Delmar, NY
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okay... i'm letting the but bite me, but I have some questions (about DCC)
Posted by DeadheadGreg on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:27 PM

okay, so i got a Prodigy Express starter set for the steal price of $50 (unopened, brand new) with the original intention of selling it on ebay.  But then I had my first DCC experience on the NEB&W, and was kinda blown away. 

So, I'm interested now.  haha.  some questions:

1) will any decoder work with any brand of engine?  ie: I can put the same decoder in Kato's and Athearns?

2) what are the cheapest, yet best, decoders?

3) If I buy a sound decoder, will that also act as a regular decoder for controlling the engine, or are sound decoders JUST for sound?  If thats the case, wouldn't I need to install 2 separate decoders to get sound?

4) Will all brands of decoders work for all brands of DCC systems?  I read over the feature in the latest MR, and it seemed to indicate that its all standardized now.

5) will the DCC-equipped Bachmann GP-35's work with every DCC system, or just with their E-Z Command system?  Every place I see them, it says "to be used with Bachmann's E-Z Command System"

6) Will my Prodigy Express system support sound?  i'm still trying to understand the directions that come with it, but it doesn't seem to mention anything about it.

7) My layout is currently wired for 2-cab DC, using an MRC Tech II 2800 with common rail.  The turnouts that I'm using, however, are handlaid and made to be DCC-friendly, I guess (isolated points, jumpers to corresponding stock rails, gaps on both sides of frog).  Can I run DCC-equipped engines on this layout using the Prodigy Express system, acting as a 3rd cab? 

 

that should about do it......      I'm not looking to power turnouts or signals or anything, just control and consist engines, with sound if possible. 

 

Thanks a ton in advance

PHISH REUNION MARCH 6, 7, 8 2009 HAMPTON COLISEUM IN HAMPTON, VA AND I HAVE TICKETS!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! [quote user="jkroft"]As long as my ballast is DCC compatible I'm happy![/quote] Tryin' to make a woman that you move.... and I'm sharing in the Weekapaug Groove Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world....

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