FORUM CLINIC: 12 years using DCC - SIGNIFICANT NEW INFO!

[grayfox1119]

I also agree with you Joe on electrical bullet-proofing the track system. Having worked in electronics field for 53 years, I have seen many times what poor connections and high resistance connections can do. I actually witnessed a fire at one company when a high resistance connection between two dissimilar metals at a connector ( 220V 600A in this case) caused the entire box to be destroyed, lots of smoke too. Granted that we are talking about "flea" power here, bu the rules of electricity still stand fast. I like your method of soldering the rail joiners, I intend to do the same on my layout under construction now.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

to paraphrase my old boss....

i'd rather OVER DO the wiring than DO the wiring OVER

ere:

I'm gonna have to remember that one. [:D] That's *exactly* my sentiments!

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119

I also agree with you Joe on electrical bullet-proofing the track system. Having worked in electronics field for 53 years, I have seen many times what poor connections and high resistance connections can do ...

grayfox:

I'm in computer software rather than hardware, but like you, I don't trust those unruley electrons! [swg]

[fdmajor]

Hello Mr. Fugate,


I just finished building my 4'x8' benchwork. Plans was from the Model Railroader magazine.
I have plans to add a 26"w X 5'L, "L". Then add a 26"w X 12' L , "L" to that. (something in the end that looks like a "U".)
Am looking ahead to the wiring part. This will be a DCC layout and the control system will be EasyDCC. (I have read everything on your site, and this forum.)

My problems is; I have read so much about wiring for DCC ( for a little more than 5 months now) and I just can not get the basic understanding of what is going on.
I need a book, video tape, pictures (someone to hold my hand, I guess?) to be able to understand this.
Do you have ANY suggestions WHERE I need to start??? Remember, very basic stuff to start, then easy steps from then on. Does you video series start this basic???

I just go finished looking at your home site and found the drawing of "How I wire my track feeders for DCC"

It looks Great!!! But it's well above my head. I may be making this harder than it really is.

I'm OPEN for suggestions from you or any member of the forum. ANY assistance will be greatly appreciated...

Thanks for all of your help and time...

Don

[Anonymous]

Well, if you go to the online store here or your local hobby shop, you can get a Kalmbach book called "DCC Made Easy" that gives a pretty good grounding in the basics of DCC. And of course Joe has a DVD that you can buy through his website that sounds like it'll walk you through everything you need to know.

[fdmajor]

Thanks jsalemi, for the quick reply.

I'm sorry, I'm so dumb when it comes to this DCC bus wiring. As much as I have read, I should be an electrical engineer by now. But still having trouble screwing in a light bulb! Ha, Ha.
A little laughter, to smooth my DCC induced headache...
Do you feel that the book "DCC Made Easy" is basic enough??? Does it have a lot of pictures and drawing???

Thanks again!!!

Don

[jfugate]

Don:

In fact, I'd start with Basic Wiring for Model Railroaders by Rick Selby. Lots of pictures, and a good basic chapter on DCC to boot! Here's a link:
http://store.yahoo.net/kalmbachcatalog/12212.html

Just what the doctor ordered, if you ask me. Then get DCC made Easy if you want to move on up to more detailed DCC info, still with lots of pictures, though!

P.S. Rick's operated on my HO Siskiyou Line now and then ... and he's a *great* guy ... used to host the Student Fare column in MR.

[mecovey]

I hope this question is appropriate for this topic...I run Digitrax and one of my engines is an Athearn Challenger. I have had it for about a year and it runs great. Tonight however, I was running it through a turnout that it had run through hundreds of times and it stalled. The marker lights started flashing and all sound was out from it and all of my other sound equipped engines. I assumed a short, shut off the power and finding none, turned the power back on. Everything came back up and ran as usual. About 30 minutes later as I was running the Challenger it suddenly changed directions for absolutely no apparent reason. It was as though the polarity had reversed on a straight DC engine. It still runs except the direction of travel is backwards from the indicated direction of travel on my DT-400. Also the headlight no longer operates nor does the backup light on the tender. If it was a BLI engine, I would try resetting everything to the factory defaults but that doesn't appear to be possible on the Athearn. I would really appreciate it if anyone could help me diagnose this problem.
Thanx, Michael

[ereimer]

fdmajor ...

think of the DCC bus wiring as the highway , and the track feeders as the offramps to get the power to your track

what you want to do (simplified) is run the bus wires under the layout following the outline of your track , then run feeders from the bus to the track . then the bus connects to the command station (booster)

am i answering your question ?
do you have 6 more questions now ? [:D]
to everyone else .... did i get it right ?

[jfugate]

Michael:

When I get wierd behavior like that, I first think "decoder issues". I'll swap decoders between locomotives and see if the problem travels to the other loco. If it does, then it's the decoder, no question.

I think the decoder in the Athearn is an MRC sound decoder, is it not? Unfortunately, MRC decoders leave a lot to be desired ... that's why I'm not especially fond of them, and prefer Digitrax, TCS, Soundtraxx, Lenz, and NCE decoders over MRC ones (in that order).

[mecovey]

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the speedy reply. As I understand it the decoder is indeed an MRC and I agree with your assessment as to its value. Do you know if there is a way to test the decoder or at least reset it?

When I first got the engine (one of two) it had decoder issues with respect to the headlight and I had to return it to Athearn. That saga is on another thread. I hate to go through that again if someone has a better way.

Michael

[fdmajor]

Many Thanks to everyone!

This forum has the QUICKEST responses I have ever seen. And the information is right on target. All this has been extremely helpful to me.

" I Love This Forum"

Hope all of you have a wonderful Day!

Don

P.S. I'm sure more questions will come, maybe later I will be able to pass along some tips to someone...
Thanks again to all who answered by questions. I'm headed over to buy the books suggested.

[mecovey]

As a follow up to the Athearn problem - I phoned Toney's Train Exchange and talked to Ken. He suggested resetting CV29 to the factory value. I did and that reset everything tot he factory values. Thanks Ken

[electrolove]

BUMP again [:D]

Everything by Joe Fugate is so good. Can someone at Model Railroader please make Joe's awesome post appear at the top so we don't have to 'BUMP' them.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by electrolove
BUMP again [:D]

Everything by Joe Fugate is so good. Can someone at Model Railroader please make Joe's awesome post appear at the top so we don't have to 'BUMP' them.

[#ditto]

I emailed Bergie ( a while back) and asked him to "sticky" all of Joe's Forum Clinics; but he still hasn't done it. [:(] [sigh] [:(]

[Anonymous]

Changing speed values in a TCS T1

I have an inexpensive HO 0-6-0 switcher that I reworked to make it run better. I am now happy with the mechanical and electrical systems.It runs well.

I installed a TCS T1 decoder and left all the default values at the factory setting. I would like to set the the speed setting value to a more realistic yard speed. Currently top speed is to fast especially for the my grandson.

My question is this; what CV's should be changed to get a slower top speed at full throttle? Will this change adversely affect the pulling power of the loco?

According to the T1 literature the dither feature can be reset a different value. Would I gain anything by setting dither to 100% or less keeping in mind that this is a yard switcher.

Any comments or suggestion would be appreciated.

Great forum. So much good info

Joe

[rrinker]

Since every loco is a bit different, it's as much an 'experiment' thing as anything. The primary CV you want for this is CV05, which is the 'top' voltage. The default value is 0, which means "full track power". Try settign this to 120 or so, if it' sstill too fast, drop it even more. This one change was all I needed to make a Proto2000 SD45 run better - out of the box it did somewhere around 200MPH.
In theory this will reduce pulling power - if the motor can't get full voltage, it can't make full power. However, that's what "dither" and "load compensation" and any of the varous other terms that mean basically the same thing are for. Here's another place for experimentation. Too much dither or compensation and you can get jerky movement, too little and the slow speed running will be poor.
If it gets really crazy, and you can't remember what you did, there's always the factory reset, which in TCS decoders is programming a 2 in either CV08 or CV30.
Have fun, you can't hurt anything by goofing up with this, and if you DO goof up, the factory reset is our friend [:D]

--Randy

[Anonymous]

You can also put a value less that what you put in CV05 into CV06, which represents the "mid-point" voltage. That way you can fine tune how your engine runs so that it builds up speed slowly (CV6 < 1/2CV5), or builds up speed fast and then 'levels off' (CV6 > 1/2CV5).

Of course, to really fine-tune it you can use the full speed table, but I don't recommend doing that by hand -- DecoderPro makes it very easy, and is worth it for that alone.

[jfugate]

I tend to use DecoderPro and speed tables a lot, since it's very easy to speed match locos for lashups that way ... hmmm seems I owe this forum another official post on that very topic.

I've got the first op session of the season (we always break for summer) coming up this Saturday, but after that I need to get back on the wagon and start posting to this here forum clinic again.

But I must admit, it's been pretty fun working on the layout as first priority for a while (instead of posting to the forum clinic)! [swg]

[chateauricher]

bump

[n2mopac]

Joe,

I haven't been around in a while (like 2 months). Things get pretty crazy for me at work August through December. Well, since my last post I have installed my first two decoders--one drop-in in an Atlas GP40 (easy 10 minute job) and one complicated installation of a Z scale decoder in a non DCC ready Life Like N scale SW9. I blew one decoder in the process there, but Digitrax replaced it cheap and the secod go-round went flawlessly.

I am in the process of building my major yard. I am running feeders to every yard track (approx. 4'6" long each) but I am wondering about reliable wiring for the ladder. I would prefer not to solder the trunouts in place, but will they get reliable power from the yard tracks through the joiners without running feeders to eacy turnout (whick I also do not want to do)? Tell me how you wire your yard ladders and tracks.

Thanks,
Ron

[jfugate]

Ron:

I run feeders to each track section and do not rely on rail joiners.

However, if the track section is shorter than 1 foot in length, I solder one end to an adjacent track with feeders. On turnouts, I solder the joiners on the point end.

This means that most of the time, all the rail joiners in a yard ladder are soldered.

Some mention they like to not solder rail joiners so they can replace the turnouts if there is a problem. On the Siskiyou Line, I've only replaced a couple turnouts in nearly 14 years of operation (I have some 120 turnouts on the layout). I cut through the rail joiner with a motor tool, then use a soldering iron and solder wick to remove the solder and half-joiner on the track that remains.

I prefer the reliability to the ease of replacement, figuring that planning first to allow easy turnout replacement is planning to fail. I'd rather plan for reliable, trouble-free operation first, take my time to install the turnout right and then just live with any extra effort to replace something if that ever is needed.

[n2mopac]

Thanks for your input, Joe. I will take all of this under consideration as I build.

Ron

[jfugate]

Ron:

Happy to help out. Like I tell people when I do a face-to-face clinic ... this is how I do it on the Siskiyou Line and it works for me. I realize you may have other ideas and prefer to do it differently than me, and that's okay.

But I think it's important to share ideas that have stood the test of time, and that's mostly what I try to present.

[NZRMac]

And very well presented too!![:D][:D]

Ken.

[Anonymous]

.

[fdmajor]

Hello,

Could someone PLEASE supply me with a drawing, picture, or a link to a site that has drawings or pictures of;

The main BUS Wire run under a layout?
Some pictures or drawing of How to run a Main Bus Wire?
Some pictures or drawing of how to run and wire a sub-bus wire?
(taking in consideration of , and using the 1156 bulbs)

Also, I have read here about just running the bus around and under the layout, OK,
(I have a 4x8 layout)

What do I do with the END of the run of wire???

Thanks AGAIN for your Help,
"I will get this right (The DCC Wiring Thing) , sooner or later" with your help. Thanks for your time and understanding my lack of brains, when it comes to DCC...

Have a Good Day...

Don

[tsasala]

Start at one end, run the wire around, and just let it hang at the other end.

I think Joe has some pictures on his site. Here are some of my layout:

http://www.cyberrailguru.com/gallery/ig_wiring

http://www.cyberrailguru.com/gallery/ig_trackwork

I haven't gotten around to the sub-bus part, but I have all the pieces ready to go.

-Tom

[jfugate]

Don:

I cover some of your questions in my DCC video ... a picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.

I'll see if I can post a few photos for you in the next few days.

Tom is right ... nothing fancy. The bus connects up to the booster output, then runs around the layout along the front edge, with terminal strip feeds every few feet for track feeders. At the end, the wires just hang lose, no special termination is needed.

To make sense out of the following, consult my track diagram on my web site: http://siskiyou.railfan.net/model/layoutDesign/trackPlan.html

My upper bus for the main starts at the booster at the Roseburg/North Bend end of the layout, and runs all the way around the room to Cottage Grove, for a total distance of about 100 feet (the room is 50 feet long).

Roseburg itself is on its own booster, also located under North Bend.

Dillard and staging are fed off a separate booster, also located under the North Bend end of the layout.

The lower deck main is fed off yet another booster, located under North Bend. The total bus wire run is about 100 feet.

And finally, Coos Bay and North Bend are on a separate booster, for a total of 5 boosters, all fed from under the North Bend area, and all using #12 guage bus wire.

And of course, if you watch the video clip on 1156 bulb short management, you know my layout is busted up into train length blocks to make short management easier. I have about 27 such blocks on the layout. If you haven't seen this video clip, you can watch it here: http://mymemoirs.net/preview.php

Each block has its own third bus wire, also 12 guage. One side of the block gets its track feeds off this third bus. This third bus is fed off one of the main bus wires, through an 1156 bulb and a toggle switch, which makes the entire block protected by an 1156 bulb in case something shorts.

The layout was not originally wired with the train length blocks and believe me everyone knew where the booster block boundaries were whenever something shorted because everything quit running in that booster block until the short was cleared. Now with the 1156 bulbs, no one knows or cares where the booster blocks are located because shorts have become a local event, only affecting the guy who gets the short.

Rewiring the layout with the train length blocks took me and a helper three 8 hour days of work and cost me about $100 in materials. It's the best thing I've ever done electrically to the layout, well worth the 20-some hours of extra work it took to redo the wiring this way. [swg]

[fdmajor]

Joe & Tom;

Thanks so much for the photos and explaination of running power bus lines.

Joe, if you can post a photo or two, I sure would appreciate it. [bow]

I'm still a little unclear about the "purpose" of the sub-bus.

Do some people use the sub-bus for "Only" street lights, crossing lights ,building lights and so on?
Also, is this sub-bus hooked to a separate power supply (booster)?

Thanks Again, Hope everyone had a Great Week-End...

Don