I knew it was one of those newer ones, too new for me to be buying any.
But if someone wanted me to install a decoder in theirs, I'd do my usual and remove the board and replace all incandescent bulbs with LEDs. As long as there is room, I use decoders with 9 pin connectors on them, so it's not like hard wiring means you have to cut and resolder allt he wires if the decoder should happen to fail. And with a 9 pin 'dummy plug' (like in newer Athearns that have both a 9 pin and 8 pin connector, also Digitrax used to sell them) you can remove the decoder and switch the loco to pure DC operation.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
So the S1 & S2 switchers have the motor ground problem but not the PA's & SD'S ???
thomas81z So the S1 & S2 switchers have the motor ground problem but not the PA's & SD'S ???
Rich
Alton Junction
Ohh ok thats good to know thanks
richhotrain thomas81z So the S1 & S2 switchers have the motor ground problem but not the PA's & SD'S ??? The Proto 2000 S1 and S3 switchers have the problem, no other P2K loco to my knowledge. Rich
The Proto 2000 S1 and S3 switchers have the problem, no other P2K loco to my knowledge.
thomas81z Ohh ok thats good to know thanks richhotrain thomas81z So the S1 & S2 switchers have the motor ground problem but not the PA's & SD'S ??? The Proto 2000 S1 and S3 switchers have the problem, no other P2K loco to my knowledge. Rich
Do not assume, just because someone else has not had a problem doesnt mean something could be lurking. The best advice is that you should always check for a path for short circuits before installing a decoder.
BMMECNYC thomas81z Ohh ok thats good to know thanks richhotrain thomas81z So the S1 & S2 switchers have the motor ground problem but not the PA's & SD'S ??? The Proto 2000 S1 and S3 switchers have the problem, no other P2K loco to my knowledge. Rich Do not assume, just because someone else has not had a problem doesnt mean something could be lurking. The best advice is that you should always check for a path for short circuits before installing a decoder.
The discussion of the infamous orange wire on the S1 and the S3 has taken place on more than one model railroad forum and on more than one web site, Tony's Trains Exchange, Digitrax, and Loy's Toys, just to name a few.
According to informed sources, the problem began with the design of a short wheebase diesel locomotive. The lower motor brush is insulated from the motor frame, but the lower brush cap has a metal tab which is bent so as to contact the lower portion of the metal chassis.
Life-Like did this to shortcut the need to solder a wire to the lower brush cap cap which would have required a path back up the PC board. Instead, the manufacturer installed a small metal lug under the upper frame mounting screw which is located under the front headlamp and then ran a wire to the PC board to complete the circuit from the lower brush through the frame.
Life-Like subsequently acknowledged this design error and said that it was unique to the S1 and S3 switchers. On the longer wheelbase diesel locos, there was enough room to avoid taking this shortcut.
The old FA's, the ones witht he spinning fan drivien with a rubber band, are direct Athearn BB drive clones and I think the motor may indeed be connected to the frame. I have only one of these, in a still unbuilt MDC RS-3 kit, so I haven't messed with DCC in it yet. Other P2K locos I HAVE converted, besides the S-1, are the GP-7's, FA-2, SD-7, and E units. None of these had any issues (other than weird factory boards in the SD7) with motor isolation, be be warned there was a run of E units that has motors that draw somewhere north of 4 amps, so you'll want to check current draw at stall to avoid frying a typical HO decoder.
The old FA drive MIGHT just have the frame connected to a rail, not the motor, in which case it's fine as long as both motor brushes are isolated from the frame. Frame to rail is OK, not a problem, motor to frame is no good.
richhotrain BMMECNYC thomas81z Ohh ok thats good to know thanks richhotrain thomas81z So the S1 & S2 switchers have the motor ground problem but not the PA's & SD'S ??? The Proto 2000 S1 and S3 switchers have the problem, no other P2K loco to my knowledge. Rich Do not assume, just because someone else has not had a problem doesnt mean something could be lurking. The best advice is that you should always check for a path for short circuits before installing a decoder. No assumption on my part. As I did say, "no other P2K loco to my knowledge". The discussion of the infamous orange wire on the S1 and the S3 has taken place on more than one model railroad forum and on more than one web site, Tony's Trains Exchange, Digitrax, and Loy's Toys, just to name a few. According to informed sources, the problem began with the design of a short wheebase diesel locomotive. The lower motor brush is insulated from the motor frame, but the lower brush cap has a metal tab which is bent so as to contact the lower portion of the metal chassis. Life-Like did this to shortcut the need to solder a wire to the lower brush cap cap which would have required a path back up the PC board. Instead, the manufacturer installed a small metal lug under the upper frame mounting screw which is located under the front headlamp and then ran a wire to the PC board to complete the circuit from the lower brush through the frame. Life-Like subsequently acknowledged this design error and said that it was unique to the S1 and S3 switchers. On the longer wheelbase diesel locos, there was enough room to avoid taking this shortcut. Rich
No assumption on my part. As I did say, "no other P2K loco to my knowledge".
Rich,
Wasnt really meant for you, more for thomas81z. I pulled the motors on my LL SD60s, while I did not find an athearn frame power supply clip, I did install kapton tape over the motor power clip on the top and bottom of the motor, to be sure the motor or the wire I had to resolder to the clip (shoddy solder job on the bottom clip/broken wire) didnt energize the frame, ever. Even though I only put in a $19 NCE decoder, I felt it was worth the piece of mind should I decide to add sound at a later date.
Edit: I should note that I bought these LL P2k SD60s on EBay and the seller did not have the original box and they had some detail parts, but not all applied. I did not know if the original owner had done modifications (IE rewire to run long hood end to end, et cetera), that is the reason I stripped these down to the bare chassis.
My Walther's H12-44 had each motor frame half connected to the brush. Needed Kapton tape and nylon screw to isolate the motor half from the bottom frame. Used a strip of 0.002 phosphor bronze to reach the brush cap on the bottom of the motor.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I ended up hardwiring in to finish the install, dummy me did not check that the motor was properly wired, consequently I now need to use CVs to fix the headlights and motor being opposite....(I already put on shrink tubing).
Edit: Programmed CVs 49 and 50 to 32 (constant brightness).
Swapped the LEDs CV 29 to 35.
BMMECNYCdummy me did not check that the motor was properly wired
Dummy me, too! I remember doing a few Life-Likes assuming that the red wire to the motor was +
Nope, they used black + and red -
Simple enough to change through CVs but a pain just the same. Now I always check with a DC power supply.
Regards, Ed
Yeah, I did my first S1 backwards too. My GP7's I deliberately wire backwards, because on my prototype they ran long hood forward. LL even has the F decal on the proper end, but they put the crew figures in and wire them to run short hood forward on DC.
First, test on DC track, then wire, test, then solder.
Starting my second LL S-1 today. Summary of what has been learned: Nylon screws are not needed.
Test locomotive on DC before starting tear down to check for correct L/R pick up wiring, orange/gray wire on correct side of motor.
Remove motor from frame and flip over (corrects the incorrect LL wiring scheme), Solder orange wire to the newly exposed unwired clip (remove clip before soldering) CAUTION: small spring and motor brush under nut that holds clip, do not lose this.
Apply kapton tape to area around gray wire, bottom motor contact.
File out the notches that held the light bulbs in place, 3mm LEDs do not exactly fit in same location. Use golden white LEDs for 1st Gen Diesel Switchers.
TCS MC2 decoder fits well. Remove the 8pin plug entirely and hardwire, saves critical space when re-installing shell.
Replace couplers (plastic spring Kadee clones are what came on this).
BMMECNYC Starting my second LL S-1 today. Summary of what has been learned:
Starting my second LL S-1 today. Summary of what has been learned: