Looking for info on WWII Troop Train Consist

[Anonymous]

I found this video to be very informative. I dont think they did an entire armored division on that train, A stuart light tank had 3 men (I think) and there were about 300 to a division 2 to a 40 foot flat car yeilded a total of about 150 flats.

My feeling is that they moved by subunits in multiple trains. MAIN Trains to my understanding had piority over everything else on the rail.

I have witnessed a number of trains heading to ports south in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the cargo is very well taken care of. I think they may have moved some heavy stuff at night and flown the troops overseas to mate with equiptment.

I have always believed that a strong fleet of merchants to carry the material over seas backed by a fleet of heavy transport aircraft can get the job done.

This video is one of the internet highlights of this hobby.. Thank you very much for allowing us the link to it.

Lee

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the discussion and inforamtion. I hope to continue this as it is rarely modeled to any great degree.

Per your reguests... here is the address for the movie I mentioned earlier. Please note it is all together as one line.

http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=18999

PSNGRTRN, mentioned that I said the film shows an armor division moving to an unknown destination in 1943. He noted that the movement of an entire division would be extremely large and unlikely given the logostics. I reviewed it again earlier today, because what you said makes a lot of sense. Well guess what... Indeed they say a "division", but... if you watch it closely, what PSNGRTRN says is right on the money. It dawned on me that the train shown was not just one but a number of them. Remember that the film was produced for the War Department during WWII and was carefully censored.

For those of you interested... there are several different ways of viewing the film either complete or in part. I downloaded the editable MPEG4 version which is 220 Mb in size. I have DSL and it took me approximately 20 minutes to download. Well worth the wait.

I have a complete WWII Hospital Train, and enough equipment to put together a strictly passenger troop train. I'm working on replicating one of the trains shown in the film, and adding some of the elements evident in photos too. Its certainly a work in progress. Trying to use both N-Scale MiniFigs and 10mm Perrin Miniatures for military vehicles. Note: Perrin Miniatures are produced and sold here in Wisconsin, nice stuff, even though not quite N scale.

Marc

[Anonymous]

NTDN, the standard sleepers wouldn't always be for the officers as there where more enlisted than officers. Who slept where was up to the Company/Batallion commander.
Ch

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: Wayner's "Passenger Train Consists 1923-1973" lists the consist of a MAIN (troop) train on the Southern Ry. at Danville, VA on 12/24/43 with the following cars:
B&O baggage car
Pullman 16 section tourist car
Pullman 14 section 1st class car
Pullman 14 section tourist car
ACL baggage car equippped as kitchen
Pullman 10 section 2 drawing room 1st class car
Pullman 16 section tourist car
Three (3) Pullman troop sleepers
SAL baggage car equipped as kitchen
Pullman troop sleeper
Pullman 7 compartment 2 drawing room 1st class car
Pullman 12 section 1 drawing room 1st class car
Pullman 10 section buffet observation first class car.

IIRC, the book also mentioned that this train ran as the second section of a regularly scheduled passenger train.

[Anonymous]

Troop sleepers were Just boxcars with bunkbeds in them, Same with kitchen cars and mess cars, converted Boxcars(or baggage cars) to specific needs. Standard sleepers would have been for the officers.

[Anonymous]

Marc--

Wayner's "Passenger Train Consists 1923-1973" lists the consist of a MAIN (troop) train on the Southern Ry. at Danville, VA on 12/24/43 with the following cars:
B&O baggage car
Pullman 16 section tourist car
Pullman 14 section 1st class car
Pullman 14 section tourist car
ACL baggage car equippped as kitchen
Pullman 10 section 2 drawing room 1st class car
Pullman 16 section tourist car
Three (3) Pullman troop sleepers
SAL baggage car equipped as kitchen
Pullman troop sleeper
Pullman 7 compartment 2 drawing room 1st class car
Pullman 12 section 1 drawing room 1st class car
Pullman 10 section buffet observation first class car.

--John

[Anonymous]

You state that the video shows an armored division moving by train. That would be an extremely long train. It would need at least 70-100 troop cars alone as a division is 10,000-13,000 troops. The train would be transporting a batalion (around 300 troops). Consist would be about 10 troop sleepers and 1-2 kitchen cars and enough flat cars to transport vehicles and equipment. Total number of cars would be around 50-70 cars. I should know, I used to be on my units rail load team.
Ch

[Anonymous]

I think you have answered your own question, unless you are wanting to model a specific individual train. Is it the one from the movie you want to replicate?

In general, I think railroads in the US and Canada basically pressed everything into service that wasn't falling apart. A lot of steamers that were due to be retired/scrapped were refurbished and kept on, same for rolling stock - any and all flats, box cars, passenger cars, and so on. Some people note that dieselization would have been a 1940's phenomenon, instead of 50s-60s if it weren't for the wartime restriction on building non-military equipment.

I think that the US military had their own trains at one point, but I don't have any details on that.

Andrew

[AltonFan]

During WWII, the typical "modern" flatcar of the era was 40'-50'. Flatcars shorter than that were either holdovers from the 36' car era (ended around World War I) or special-purpose cars.

Mr. Van Cleven,

Would you be kind enough to provide a link to the movie you mentioned?

Thanx,

[Anonymous]

Hi, everybody!

Been working on a couple of WWII troop trains to run on our Capital City "N"Gineers NTrak layout. Looking at specifically 1943 to 1944 time frame.

Have visited Klein's passenger train website which has some great info on troop train consists. Also I downloaded a 13 minute movie from the national archives (over 200 Megs) which shows an armor division moving both men and equipment on the same train. Passenger equipment, and then flats following loaded with vehicles and such. Great stuff, and obviously censored but still very useful. Also got the book, "America's Fighting Railroads" and the book Railroad Decade: the 1940's.

My problem is this... what are the typical flat car lengthes for that time frame? I have photos showing 30' to 50' flats, with either one or two armor vehicles chucked per car. Some trains are strictly passenger trains, strictly flats with vehicles and war cargo, or both, which is what I want to model.

I'm looking for clear photo or text references of the military train consist . I do want to portray this consist fairly accurately. Any discussion is welcome.

Marc Van Cleven
Madison, WI