Or the original from 1923
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT1475634&id=vlhqAAAAEBAJ&dq=1475634&jtp=1#PPA20,M1
although I must admit we do call it pulling the pin, not freeing off the lock or some such.J.R.
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4363414&id=cvQ4AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=4363414#PPP1,M1
Here's the full patent with some nice cross sectional diagrams of the internal mechanism of the coupler. The lock doesn't look like a pin to me!
Tom - Mark isn't disputing the venacular form used by railroaders. He's disputing what the part is actually called. The patent is by the inventor, so I'd say that is pretty authoritative.
wjstix wrote: marknewton wrote:Very helpful - a simplified explanation for a non-technical audience. The part referred to as a "locking pin" is the lock lifter....which looks a great deal like the "pin" from a link-and-pin coupler, which is why it's been called "the pin" for 100 years or so by US railroaders (but maybe not by Aussie "railwaymen"??) Bottom line is, if you took fifty US railroaders and asked them to show you a car's lock lifters, you might get one guy who could point it out and 49 blank stares. Ask them to show you the pin and they'd all know it's the part that opens the coupler when they lift the cut lever.
marknewton wrote:Very helpful - a simplified explanation for a non-technical audience. The part referred to as a "locking pin" is the lock lifter.
...which looks a great deal like the "pin" from a link-and-pin coupler, which is why it's been called "the pin" for 100 years or so by US railroaders (but maybe not by Aussie "railwaymen"??)
Bottom line is, if you took fifty US railroaders and asked them to show you a car's lock lifters, you might get one guy who could point it out and 49 blank stares. Ask them to show you the pin and they'd all know it's the part that opens the coupler when they lift the cut lever.
Railroaders are more than just those in train service. Which department are your 50 railroaders drawn from? Operating or mechanical? I started out 30 years ago in engineering, moved to mechanical, moved to operating, was moved to signal, and now I've been moved into network planning and capacity design. There's slang and there's proper terminology. Mark Newton quotes the manual, that's good enough for me.
S. Hadid
You're right, there is nothing to dispute, your original statement says it all:
marknewton wrote:There is no "pin that keeps the knuckle closed". Pull a knuckle coupler apart and you'll find a lock, a lock lifter, and a knuckle thrower.
Perhaps this page at the Pacific Southwest Railway Museum will help explain the point about the 'pin'...referred to there as "the locking pin":
http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/couplers/
Be sure and check out the video demonstration too!!
marknewton wrote:So what are you disputing? That these parts exist, or what they are called?
YOU are the one disputing the fact that it's called "pulling the pin" here in the US. So the part that you "pull" when you pull the uncoupler lever is the "pin."
selector wrote:Should I conclude that there is a sort of two-part action to the releasing of the knuckle? If the releasing lever is lifted only so far, the power could pull away and the knuckle should open. If I were to pull the lever even further, the secondary action should actually encourage the knuckle to open if there is nothing to prevent its swing....is that right? So there is a cam, of sorts, that forces the knuckle to open?
Back to the topic at hand...
The motion is one and the same. There's only one way pull on the lever - all the way up.
The slack must be in, to be able lift the cut lever and raise the lock. If there is tension on the knuckles, the lock won't release.
There is usually enough play in the knuckles for the knuckle thrower to move the knuckle slightly. If you look down at the coupled knuckles while you "pull the pin" you can acutally see the knuckle jiggle, as the thrower tries to open the knuckle. When there is nothing coupled to the car, the motion is more pronounced.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
Since your memory seems to be a bit short, here's the entry that started this part of the discussion, from page 1 post 3. It was in reference to post 2. Note the user name.
marknewton wrote:I was being facetious - I know what a carriage is. You wrote: "We couple and uncouple cars, not carriges." I was having a gentle dig at your inability to spell "carriage", and to the irrelevance of your comment.My point still stands. Railwaymen are the authoritative source for railway terminology, not journos or apparatchiks. You said so yourself.Cheers,Mark.
And I was making a point of the differences in terminology and especially slang between the countries. "Pulling the pin" is a common term in the US for uncoupling cars. Whether there is a pin being pulled any more or not has nothing to do with the slang that has been around since the beginning of the railroads here.
marknewton wrote: TomDiehl wrote: And I find it strange that reporters "down under" use the term "carriage" for what we call (in the US) a passenger car.I find it strange you'd consider a journalist - particularly one quoting a government bureaucrat - a reliable source of information about anything, let alone what working railwaymen call their equipment. So you reckon you're terminology was correct because you got it from working railroaders, but mine isn't, because it doesn't agree with what a hack reporter from Geelong wrote?LOL!
TomDiehl wrote: And I find it strange that reporters "down under" use the term "carriage" for what we call (in the US) a passenger car.
And I find it strange that reporters "down under" use the term "carriage" for what we call (in the US) a passenger car.
No, I find it strange that people from Australia, be they "government bureaucrat" or "hack reporter," use the term "carriage" when you had no idea what it meant.
TomDiehl wrote:And I find it strange that reporters "down under" use the term "carriage" for what we call (in the US) a passenger car.
route_rock wrote: Wow guess us "working rails" are wrong about our own equipment.Thanks for enlightening us.
Wow guess us "working rails" are wrong about our own equipment.Thanks for enlightening us.
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2007/03/07/1924_news.html
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
Hey Mark !!!!!
I see your still polluting the forums with your arrogance.
Cheers
youngengineer wrote:Wow such hostility, can't we all get along or is our need to be right so strong we are willing to blast each other.
Wow such hostility, can't we all get along or is our need to be right so strong we are willing to blast each other.
"Pulling the pin" is slang for operating the cut lever. It's a hold-over from the days of link and pin couplers.
The knuckle pin is a steel rod that holds the knuckle in the coupler and allows the knuckle to pivot.
When you lift the cut lever, the lever lifts the lock, allowing the knuckle to pivot on the pin. Lifting the lock also pushes the knuckle thrower out. This should open the knuckle. However, the thrower is usually the first part of the coupler to fail, so the knuckle may not open on its own.
On most modern freight cars, the uncoupling lever is connected under the coupler and lifting the lever pushes up unlocking the knuckle.
If a knuckle is closed (on an end not coupled to another car) and you lift the lever, it should open the knuckle. If it doesn't, that part (I think I've seen knuckle thrower used elsewher) is defective. The coupler will still work, except the knuckle will have to be opened manually. In my experience, it seems like you had to pull the lever up a few times for the knuckle to open far enough to couple. Usually easier, if there is the proper clearance between equipment, to reach in and pull it open manually.
One of our conductors who helps in field training new-hires related this story to me. He had a class out in the yard showing how couplers worked. He lifted the lever and the knuckle didn't open on it's own. A mechanical dept employee happened to be near and saw this. The car man told the conductor he just made the railroad $50.00 and bad ordered the foreign line car. The part that should open the knuckle was broken and it was a billable repair to the owner of the car. If there is one thing railroads like fixing, it's someone else's equipment.
Jeff
wjstix wrote:I didn't site Wikipedia as a source, I posted a link to picture that showed the part of the coupler I was talking about
I didn't site Wikipedia as a source, I posted a link to picture that showed the part of the coupler I was talking about
What the manufacturer or the FRA or AAR calls the parts of a janney coupler is a part of the story, but as with many things, working railroaders use other terms.
marknewton wrote: wjstix wrote: The gizmo (to use a technical term) sticking out of the top of the coupler - the thing with one link of chain attached to it - is what is in common parlance called the "pin"Please, if you're going to cite a web page, make it something a little more authoritative than Wikipedia...particularly not one that describes a knuckle coupler as a "towing hitch"...Common parlance or not, the so-called "pin" is not what keeps the knuckle closed. Next time you dismantle a real, 12" to the foot scale coupler, have a good look at what's inside.Cheers,Mark.
wjstix wrote: The gizmo (to use a technical term) sticking out of the top of the coupler - the thing with one link of chain attached to it - is what is in common parlance called the "pin"
The gizmo (to use a technical term) sticking out of the top of the coupler - the thing with one link of chain attached to it - is what is in common parlance called the "pin"
I didn't site Wikipedia as a source, I posted a link to picture that showed the part of the coupler I was talking about, just happened on a quick websearch the first pic I came across was in Wikipedia.
What the manufacturer or the FRA or AAR calls the parts of a janney coupler is a part of the story, but as with many things, working railroaders use other terms. In the US the part I referred to is called "the pin" and railroads call uncoupling cars "pulling the pin". Working railroaders often use terms different from what other people would use.