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Meat Packing Plant - waste uses

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  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: East Lansing, MI, US
  • 223 posts
Meat Packing Plant - waste uses
Posted by GerFust on Monday, September 8, 2003 11:31 AM
I'm considering putting a meat packing plant on my layout to utilize a fleet of cattle cars, reefers, and stock pens I already have.

Input, I assume, is grain and cattle.
Output, I assume, is reefers with beef. But what do such facilities do with manure [:(!] and excess parts [xx(] not packaged for human consumption[?]

Any advice you all can give will help avoid some research.

Thanks,
Jer
[ ]===^=====xx o o O O O O o o The Northern-er (info on the layout, http://www.msu.edu/~fust/)
  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: East Lansing, MI, US
  • 223 posts
Meat Packing Plant - waste uses
Posted by GerFust on Monday, September 8, 2003 11:31 AM
I'm considering putting a meat packing plant on my layout to utilize a fleet of cattle cars, reefers, and stock pens I already have.

Input, I assume, is grain and cattle.
Output, I assume, is reefers with beef. But what do such facilities do with manure [:(!] and excess parts [xx(] not packaged for human consumption[?]

Any advice you all can give will help avoid some research.

Thanks,
Jer
[ ]===^=====xx o o O O O O o o The Northern-er (info on the layout, http://www.msu.edu/~fust/)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 12:27 PM
Meat packing plants don't feed cattle. So they don't use grain. I worked at Wilson Foods several years ago and we used everything but the squeal. Beef plants are the same except the moo. The waste from the holding pens goes to an onsite pretreat plant which looks like a normal waste treatment plant and then is put into the municipal sewer for final treatment. Blood is dryed for blood meal, bone for bone meal after the meat is boiled off them for hotdogs and lunchmeat.. Hides and intestines are sent by semi for rendering or tanning for some hides. Stomachs go to Europe along with kidneys and other organs which people eat over there. Yech! Brains are ate by people too. Anything else not used, like eyes and ears and A holes go to hotdogs, only kidding??? Go to rendering. Rendering plants are almost always offsite, USDA reg?, and is used for glue and dog food. All wastes are transported by truck to rendering due to need to get them there before they spoil without wateful chilling.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 12:27 PM
Meat packing plants don't feed cattle. So they don't use grain. I worked at Wilson Foods several years ago and we used everything but the squeal. Beef plants are the same except the moo. The waste from the holding pens goes to an onsite pretreat plant which looks like a normal waste treatment plant and then is put into the municipal sewer for final treatment. Blood is dryed for blood meal, bone for bone meal after the meat is boiled off them for hotdogs and lunchmeat.. Hides and intestines are sent by semi for rendering or tanning for some hides. Stomachs go to Europe along with kidneys and other organs which people eat over there. Yech! Brains are ate by people too. Anything else not used, like eyes and ears and A holes go to hotdogs, only kidding??? Go to rendering. Rendering plants are almost always offsite, USDA reg?, and is used for glue and dog food. All wastes are transported by truck to rendering due to need to get them there before they spoil without wateful chilling.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 12:30 PM
Meat packing plants don't feed cattle. So they don't use grain. I worked at Wilson Foods several years ago and we used everything but the squeal. Beef plants are the same except the moo. The waste from the holding pens goes to an onsite pretreat plant which looks like a normal waste treatment plant and then is put into the municipal sewer for final treatment. Blood is dryed for blood meal, bone for bone meal after the meat is boiled off them for hotdogs and lunchmeat.. Hides and intestines are sent by semi for rendering or tanning for some hides. Stomachs go to Europe along with kidneys and other organs which people eat over there. Yech! Brains are ate by people too. Anything else not used, like eyes and ears and A holes go to hotdogs, only kidding??? Go to rendering. Rendering plants are almost always offsite, USDA reg?, and is used for glue and dog food. All wastes are transported by truck to rendering due to need to get them there before they spoil without wateful chilling.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 12:30 PM
Meat packing plants don't feed cattle. So they don't use grain. I worked at Wilson Foods several years ago and we used everything but the squeal. Beef plants are the same except the moo. The waste from the holding pens goes to an onsite pretreat plant which looks like a normal waste treatment plant and then is put into the municipal sewer for final treatment. Blood is dryed for blood meal, bone for bone meal after the meat is boiled off them for hotdogs and lunchmeat.. Hides and intestines are sent by semi for rendering or tanning for some hides. Stomachs go to Europe along with kidneys and other organs which people eat over there. Yech! Brains are ate by people too. Anything else not used, like eyes and ears and A holes go to hotdogs, only kidding??? Go to rendering. Rendering plants are almost always offsite, USDA reg?, and is used for glue and dog food. All wastes are transported by truck to rendering due to need to get them there before they spoil without wateful chilling.
  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: East Lansing, MI, US
  • 223 posts
Posted by GerFust on Monday, September 8, 2003 3:13 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply. That is what I am looking for. I am somewhat surprised by the logistics, cattle must arrive on a tight schedule in order to be slaughtered before needing a feeding (or might they go several days without food in this process?).

Would you ship to rendering plants in refrigerated or regular transport? Train or truck?

Thanks again,
Jer
[ ]===^=====xx o o O O O O o o The Northern-er (info on the layout, http://www.msu.edu/~fust/)
  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: East Lansing, MI, US
  • 223 posts
Posted by GerFust on Monday, September 8, 2003 3:13 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply. That is what I am looking for. I am somewhat surprised by the logistics, cattle must arrive on a tight schedule in order to be slaughtered before needing a feeding (or might they go several days without food in this process?).

Would you ship to rendering plants in refrigerated or regular transport? Train or truck?

Thanks again,
Jer
[ ]===^=====xx o o O O O O o o The Northern-er (info on the layout, http://www.msu.edu/~fust/)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 4:31 PM
In the olden days the came by train and cattle were fed hay on the way if it was very far, but it wasn't a big concern as they didn't live long enough to loose any meat weight, just intestional weight which is waste anyway. Today they come on truck from sale barns where they are purchased by a buyer knowing how many they need and that's what sets the daily price as posted by the Chicago Board of Trade. It's the buyers job to be sure they have them there or it's his ***. And they ship to a rendering plant in trucks that look like coal trucks but have sealed back doors and tarps. The trucks are mostly semi with hydralic dump trailers. Some things are shipped in tankers to the renderer or dog food plant. Some things also go by refer trailer, like excess liver. They try to sell liver and will stock up on it in frozen 50 pound boxes. If it don't sell they sell it to dogfood plants cheap. Some things are shipped warm, like hooves and guts. Some thinks are chilled. It depends on distance, time, price, and how fast it will spoil. A side note, before shipping lots of farmers will feed real salty feed which cause the cattle or hogs to load up on water and weigh more. Also, when I worked at Wilson's one of the highest price per pound hog parts were the pitutary gland and pancreas which were sold to Eli Lilly for growth hormone and insulin.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 4:31 PM
In the olden days the came by train and cattle were fed hay on the way if it was very far, but it wasn't a big concern as they didn't live long enough to loose any meat weight, just intestional weight which is waste anyway. Today they come on truck from sale barns where they are purchased by a buyer knowing how many they need and that's what sets the daily price as posted by the Chicago Board of Trade. It's the buyers job to be sure they have them there or it's his ***. And they ship to a rendering plant in trucks that look like coal trucks but have sealed back doors and tarps. The trucks are mostly semi with hydralic dump trailers. Some things are shipped in tankers to the renderer or dog food plant. Some things also go by refer trailer, like excess liver. They try to sell liver and will stock up on it in frozen 50 pound boxes. If it don't sell they sell it to dogfood plants cheap. Some things are shipped warm, like hooves and guts. Some thinks are chilled. It depends on distance, time, price, and how fast it will spoil. A side note, before shipping lots of farmers will feed real salty feed which cause the cattle or hogs to load up on water and weigh more. Also, when I worked at Wilson's one of the highest price per pound hog parts were the pitutary gland and pancreas which were sold to Eli Lilly for growth hormone and insulin.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 7:54 PM
I think somewhere in there, must be room for a holding pen where them thar bovines get whuuped in the head to retire them, huh???????
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 7:54 PM
I think somewhere in there, must be room for a holding pen where them thar bovines get whuuped in the head to retire them, huh???????
  • Member since
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  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
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Posted by dknelson on Monday, September 8, 2003 11:35 PM
The old saying is that with cows, everything but the moo was used. Here in Milwaukee we could see the entire cycle until recently. At one time all of this would have been rail serviced (both receiving and shipping) but naturally trucks have taken over much of it.

The meat for meat packing of course, some meat and organs for sausages, true waste meat (and very old dairy cows) for pet food, bits of bone and hoof to the glue works (what a smell on a hot day!), bits of flesh, bone, guts, offal, and other stuff to a fertilizer plant (it smelled worse than the glue works, and they shipped the stuff in open gondolas, which on hot days could bubble over the sides!), hides to the tannery but also ground up for fertilizer if untanned. Scraps of tanned hide were also ground into fertilizer, until they realized the heavy metals were getting into the ground water.
Hoofs and horns could also be made into gelatin (like Jell-O). In a fairly compact area between downtown Milwaukee and Oak Creek Wisconsin, the C&NW used to service all of these industries by rail, although I suspect the long-closed gelatin desert plant in South Milwaukee last saw a freight car back in the 36 foot truss rod box car era. The hair was used for felt, furniture stuffing and for insulation in houses and public buildings. The blood was (and still is) dried and used for fertilizer. The intestines were made into cord for musical instruments or tennis rackets.
A circa 1920 layout could be entirely devoted to the by products of the meat industry. And the interesting thing is that in many cases shipments would be made by rail in far far shorter distances than one would otherwise see -- it was worth shipping by rail just a few miles in some cases, because they would not permit some of this stuff on the roads!
Dave Nelson
  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 10,908 posts
Posted by dknelson on Monday, September 8, 2003 11:35 PM
The old saying is that with cows, everything but the moo was used. Here in Milwaukee we could see the entire cycle until recently. At one time all of this would have been rail serviced (both receiving and shipping) but naturally trucks have taken over much of it.

The meat for meat packing of course, some meat and organs for sausages, true waste meat (and very old dairy cows) for pet food, bits of bone and hoof to the glue works (what a smell on a hot day!), bits of flesh, bone, guts, offal, and other stuff to a fertilizer plant (it smelled worse than the glue works, and they shipped the stuff in open gondolas, which on hot days could bubble over the sides!), hides to the tannery but also ground up for fertilizer if untanned. Scraps of tanned hide were also ground into fertilizer, until they realized the heavy metals were getting into the ground water.
Hoofs and horns could also be made into gelatin (like Jell-O). In a fairly compact area between downtown Milwaukee and Oak Creek Wisconsin, the C&NW used to service all of these industries by rail, although I suspect the long-closed gelatin desert plant in South Milwaukee last saw a freight car back in the 36 foot truss rod box car era. The hair was used for felt, furniture stuffing and for insulation in houses and public buildings. The blood was (and still is) dried and used for fertilizer. The intestines were made into cord for musical instruments or tennis rackets.
A circa 1920 layout could be entirely devoted to the by products of the meat industry. And the interesting thing is that in many cases shipments would be made by rail in far far shorter distances than one would otherwise see -- it was worth shipping by rail just a few miles in some cases, because they would not permit some of this stuff on the roads!
Dave Nelson
  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 7:28 AM
The holding pens are there, but really aren't as big as you would think due to crowding and leaving the live ones on the transportation device until needed. From memory at Wilsons the pens were about 20 feet wide and 60 feet long and would hold severals hours production of raw materials (lol). The really large part of the plant was the cooler areas where finished meats were stored. The actual kill floor and production areas were compact, say football field size on 2 floors.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 7:28 AM
The holding pens are there, but really aren't as big as you would think due to crowding and leaving the live ones on the transportation device until needed. From memory at Wilsons the pens were about 20 feet wide and 60 feet long and would hold severals hours production of raw materials (lol). The really large part of the plant was the cooler areas where finished meats were stored. The actual kill floor and production areas were compact, say football field size on 2 floors.
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  • From: US
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Posted by AltonFan on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 10:37 AM
There was an article in the November, 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman on modeling a boxcar dedicated to hide transport. (I gather that older cars are used for this as they will be pretty much useless for anything else afterwards.)

Dan

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Posted by AltonFan on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 10:37 AM
There was an article in the November, 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman on modeling a boxcar dedicated to hide transport. (I gather that older cars are used for this as they will be pretty much useless for anything else afterwards.)

Dan

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 1:19 PM
Even hobos avoided hide cars. They use to ship hides a lot in wood gondolas and wood flats because the juice off of them would eat a steel car up. I never heard of them using box cars, I would think that even during the depression that no one would unload a box car of hides. Off the subject a little, but in 1973 I worked the summer for a fruit market. The N and W lost a boxcar of Idaho Potaoes we had ordered and they we suppose to be delivered in March but showed up in late Aug. We went to the team tracks and opened the door and got sprayed with rotten potato slush. We had to unload the box car and it was horrible. You would take a deep breath, go inside and get a scoope shovel full, run out and dump it, exhale and do it again. Stupid me did it for 3-10 hour days for $2.50 an hour.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 1:19 PM
Even hobos avoided hide cars. They use to ship hides a lot in wood gondolas and wood flats because the juice off of them would eat a steel car up. I never heard of them using box cars, I would think that even during the depression that no one would unload a box car of hides. Off the subject a little, but in 1973 I worked the summer for a fruit market. The N and W lost a boxcar of Idaho Potaoes we had ordered and they we suppose to be delivered in March but showed up in late Aug. We went to the team tracks and opened the door and got sprayed with rotten potato slush. We had to unload the box car and it was horrible. You would take a deep breath, go inside and get a scoope shovel full, run out and dump it, exhale and do it again. Stupid me did it for 3-10 hour days for $2.50 an hour.
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Posted by coalminer3 on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 3:27 PM
Hides went by rail - lovely stuff to deal with if work needed to be done on the car.

There were (are) rules for feeding, watering, and exercising of cattle and hogs. Different standards applied for different critters. This was done en route, or in some cases, the animals were let out of the cars for exercise and reloaded. Employee timetables from your road of interest will fill you in on the details.

There have been a lot of articles in the rail press abt. this over the years.

One other operation that comes to mind which was always interesting was moving sheep on the D&RGW and other western lines.

work safe
  • Member since
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  • From: WV
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Posted by coalminer3 on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 3:27 PM
Hides went by rail - lovely stuff to deal with if work needed to be done on the car.

There were (are) rules for feeding, watering, and exercising of cattle and hogs. Different standards applied for different critters. This was done en route, or in some cases, the animals were let out of the cars for exercise and reloaded. Employee timetables from your road of interest will fill you in on the details.

There have been a lot of articles in the rail press abt. this over the years.

One other operation that comes to mind which was always interesting was moving sheep on the D&RGW and other western lines.

work safe
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: WV
  • 1,249 posts
Posted by coalminer3 on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 3:28 PM
Almost forgot - Boston and Maine used boxcars for handling hides - there was a fair number of tanneries around Boston in the day. Ralph Fisher's book on the B&M is a good place to read about this.

work safe
  • Member since
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Posted by coalminer3 on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 3:28 PM
Almost forgot - Boston and Maine used boxcars for handling hides - there was a fair number of tanneries around Boston in the day. Ralph Fisher's book on the B&M is a good place to read about this.

work safe
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  • From: East Lansing, MI, US
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Posted by GerFust on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 4:56 PM
All:

Thanks - great stuff! That put me leaps ahead of having to research it all myself. This also helps me put this into a specific historic period.
[ ]===^=====xx o o O O O O o o The Northern-er (info on the layout, http://www.msu.edu/~fust/)
  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: East Lansing, MI, US
  • 223 posts
Posted by GerFust on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 4:56 PM
All:

Thanks - great stuff! That put me leaps ahead of having to research it all myself. This also helps me put this into a specific historic period.
[ ]===^=====xx o o O O O O o o The Northern-er (info on the layout, http://www.msu.edu/~fust/)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 5:02 PM
I think my layout is going vegetarian. Put me right off my supper that did.

Jon
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 5:02 PM
I think my layout is going vegetarian. Put me right off my supper that did.

Jon
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 8:07 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jongrant

I think my layout is going vegetarian. Put me right off my supper that did.

Jon
Thats ok Jon, you really didn't want that big thick juicy T-Bone anyway, did you[:D][:D][:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 8:07 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jongrant

I think my layout is going vegetarian. Put me right off my supper that did.

Jon
Thats ok Jon, you really didn't want that big thick juicy T-Bone anyway, did you[:D][:D][:D]

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