Why do they call them "Engineers?"

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nbrodar

Most US locomotive engineers will take great offence if you say they "drive" trains. We run or operate trains, we do not drive them. I'm not sure the reasoning.

Sounds to me like you're all just being a bit precious! [:D]

Drivers in Australia, the UK, and many other countries have always been known thus, and take no offence. But we should simply agree to disagree - it's just another example of differing terminology being used to describe the same thing.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Jetrock]

The term "driver" in the US referred to someone who drives an animal--a mule driver, a horse driver--and one who drives a team of animals is a "teamster." Partially because of the high-tech nature of the steam locomotive, and partially because this new breed of high-tech worker wanted to separate himself from the lowly horse, ox or mule driver, the name "engineer" stuck. Similarly, the term "motorman" was intended to emphasize the high-tech electric nature of the job over the position of someone whose job it is to coax a smelly, ornery animal to move.

[Anonymous]

In Russia locomotive drivers (steam of diesel) are called "machinists".

[leighant]

I heard of a politically correct newspaper editor who insisted that to avoid the genderistically discriminatory term "fireman", the person who works as assistant to a locomotive engineer should be referred to as a "fire FIGHTER".

[David_Telesha]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marknewton

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha

Simply because you do NOT "drive" a train.

Really? So what do you reckon drivers do, then?

I ask because at the top of my pay docket, right under my name and employee number, is my job classification, which reads "Driver, ETR." Now, when I go to work, I would describe what I do as driving trains. What would you call it?

Mark.

Maybe where you live but here, you are a railroad locomotive engineer. Or if you work for a subway or lightrail, you're a motorman...

Drivers, drive stuff... Engineers operate trains.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I do not know ANY US engineers who call themselves "drivers".

[AltonFan]

I believe in the UK locomotive engineers are called "drivers".

[nbrodar]

The term is still Locomotive Engineer. A) because of histortical reasons, and B) that what is says on my Federal Railroad Administration licene.

Most US locomotive engineers will take great offence if you say they "drive" trains. We run or operate trains, we do not drive them. I'm not sure the reasoning.

Nick

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bush9245

As for Chuck's analogy, the firemen on trains in the days of steam did not get called stokers. Or did they? Who will come up with an instance of the fireman being referred to as the stoker?

I've often seen firemen being referred to as "stokers", but only by ignorant newspaper and television "journalists". I once criticised a journo about this after my photo appeared in a local paper, captioned as me "stoking the boiler"!!! Her response was that readers would be confused by the term fireman, they'd expect to see a bloke in a brass helmet riding around on a red truck...

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha

Simply because you do NOT "drive" a train.

Really? So what do you reckon drivers do, then?

I ask because at the top of my pay docket, right under my name and employee number, is my job classification, which reads "Driver, ETR." Now, when I go to work, I would describe what I do as driving trains. What would you call it?

Mark.

[tomikawaTT]

Bush9245

I've never heard of a locomotive fireman being called a stoker. Seems they reserved that for the machine that took over the heaviest part of his job.

However, oil-fired steamships didn't have stokers, and coal burners have been history for a long time now.

Chuck (ex-fireman-watertender)

[Anonymous]

As far as I know it is only in the US that they are called "engineers". The rest of the English speaking world I think refers to them as "drivers". I do not know about Canada though. Our cousins in Canada live under the shadow of the US so that they often suffer from pervasive influence.

As for Chuck's analogy, the firemen on trains in the days of steam did not get called stokers. Or did they? Who will come up with an instance of the fireman being referred to as the stoker?

[tomikawaTT]

Compare a train to a ship (no matter what propels it)

On a train, the engineer operates the machinery that provides movement, or stopping power when the train is moving. The conductor is in charge, but doesn't run the engine. The rails steer the train, under direction of some human somewhere operating through a communications network of some kind.

Aboard a ship, the engineer of the watch operates the machinery that provides movement, or, if in reverse, stopping power. (He is located below deck and has no idea of what is going on outside his engine room.) The mate of the watch is in charge of safe navigation, either by hands-on control or by giving orders to the helmsman and telegraph operator. The Captain has the overall responsibility, but very seldom takes a direct part in navigation once he has given his orders to the mate - frequently in the form of a log entry.

Notice the similarity between the conductor and the ship's captain, and between the mate of the watch and the CTC operator or dispatcher. As for the engineer - same job, same conditions. He can't steer it, all he can do is influence speed in accordance with someone else's orders.

At least the locomotive engineer can see where he's going.

Chuck

[Anonymous]

The term "Engineer" as applied to someone who operates a locomotive is a legacy from the steam era. A steam locomotive is a fairly complicated boiler system and the operator did more than simply apply the throttle and toot the whistle. Similarly, those people with Black Seal licenses who operate the boiler system for a large building are often referred to as "Custodial Engineers."

[David_Telesha]

Simply because you do NOT "drive" a train.

[Anonymous]

Okay, my brain is telling me that they're called "Engineers" because originally they drove steam 'engines' thus, 'engine-eers', like the movie "Rocketeer"... he flew around with a rocket pack, therefor, 'rocket-eer', or like the Mickey Mouse Club 'mouse-ka-teers'.

However, this issue just came up recently at my job (electric utility company) in another department. From what I was told, the Georgia Department of Labor won't legally let you call yourself (in resume's or job applications) or be titled on the job as an 'engineer' unless you have a college degree in some field of engineering. As a result, one of the employees who had been titled that, but didn't have a degree, was stripped of the title for what they said were 'legal reasons'. My assumption is that the company doesn't want to get sued by a consumer for having something go wrong that was planned or constructed by an 'engineer' who doesn't meet the GA DOL specifications of what an 'engineer' should be.

I would guess someone who command/drives a locomotive, would legitimately be called an engineer because of the tradition and historical connotation behind the term. However, in the railroad industry today, do they use a different term or title for the same position or are they still titled as Engineers?