Prototype pictures of GN challenger

[randyaj]

I am building Great Northern challenger from a bowser kit. I am looking for photos of the prototype engines either numbered 4000 or 4001. Any help would be appreciated. (too cheap to buy a whole book for a couple of pictures)
thanks
Randy Johnson

[orsonroy]

Using the power of Google, here's what I came up with:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/challenger/gn.shtml
http://www.sps700.org/spshist.html
http://www.gngoat.org/gn_steam_locomotives.htm
http://photoswest.org/ (search under "great northern"; you'll end up with 415 hits, some of which are of the Challengers. "sp&s" yields an additional 49 hits, including a few Challenger photos)

It's not much, but considering there were only two of these beasts, you're lucky to find anything online at all!

[randyaj]

thanks [8D]
Randy

[randyaj]

Guys I am having a hard time seeing the difference in the firebox between the bowser kit and the GN prototype. I see the bulge in front of the cab needs to be made consideralbly shorter, the corners of the cab have to be changed, and the air pump mounting location is wrong on the bowser, but the firebox does not look like the earlier mallets that GN made see here http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00016179+OP-16179
any help??
Randy

[michealfarley]

That is correct. These are some of the only modern GN steam locomotives that do not have the Belpaire Firebox, the square-ish portion of the boiler in front of the cab.

While I'm here, a bit o' history on these two locomotives...

These two locomotives, 4000 & 4001, were built to NP-SP&S Z6 specifcations. They were met with limited success on the GN and were sold by 1950 to the SP&S. The GN took pride in operating locomotives of its own design, and built in its own shops. They also preferred a single-axle lead and trailing truck on freight locomotives, as maximum tractive effort was key. During their late-1940's delivery, the GN was already buying FT locomotives for most of its freight service. Finally, the Challenger did not provide for any advantage in speed or tractive effort to its own 2-8-8-2 R1 and R2 class locomotives, which had been in service already for several years.

Micheal Farley
Fargo, ND

[randyaj]

Thanks I thought it was my eyes!
As someone who was born and raised in northeaster Montana, it is good to see the northland represented!
thanks again
Randy Johnson
formerly of Medicine Lake MT
now Iowa

[oleirish]

I asked this question on anthor forum and no answer,so will try here;I would like to have info on three S.P. locos All are articlated(malletts) #3930.#4294,#3804I have spent about 4 hours on this today,and have one bad picture???These are not Cab forwards,A person can find a bunch of pictures of cab forwards.these are cab rears.
JIM

[DanRaitz]

Jim,

SP #3930 was an MM3 class 2-6-6-2 and there is a photo of it on page34 in Robert J. Church's book titled "Cab Forwards".
SP #3804 was an AC9 class 2-8-8-4 and there are photos of this class in pages 93 - 101 in the above book.
Whereas SP #4294 is an AC12 class 4-8-8-2 CAB FORWARD currrently residing at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, CA
http://www.csrmf.org/doc.asp?ID=162
You might try this site, which shows links to SP sites that could be helpful.
http://www.sphts.org/Resources/spwebresources.html
On the above site I found some photos at the Denver Public Library http://photoswest.org by doing a search under Southern Pacific and the the engine number. There is one shot of #3930, but none of #3804, although there are mutiple shots of 3802 and 3805
Dan

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

I asked this question on anthor forum and no answer,so will try here;I would like to have info on three S.P. locos All are articlated(malletts) #3930.#4294,#3804I have spent about 4 hours on this today,and have one bad picture???These are not Cab forwards,A person can find a bunch of pictures of cab forwards.these are cab rears.

You might want to post this question as a new thread that has a subject related to the question. I am thinking the people who know might not be reading a thread about the GN. Especially since this thread is posted in two Forms so one might think they have read it when in fact they are missing several posts....