U.S. Milatary Railroads?

[Anonymous]

I just purchesed one of Walthers Trainline gp-9 U.S. Army locomotives and was wondering how prototypical it is , I know that during the Civil War the Army used railroads , but what does the milatary use them for today ?

[Anonymous]

probably handling large equipment. I dont know but I know they used trains for troops well into the 70s how ever these days all soldiers are flown to their destination. But some of the large equipment is just to expensive to fly because the super cargo planes(like the C-5 galaxy) tend to break their landing gear on landings.

[csmith9474]

It is very much prototypical. Railroads are used quite frequently to move armor and equipment. The Department of Defense still retains its own fleet of rolling stock as well. And believe me on this one, it doesn't even take large equipment to break a C-5, they will break just sitting on the flight line. Anyhow, I will try to post a few links for DOD railroad equipment in a little while. G2G, HOOAH!!

[ericsp]

http://military.railfan.net/

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info , but here's another question, who operates them the base personel or hired railroad workers and do they connect with any other railroads??

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eamarko

Thanks for the info , but here's another question, who operates them the base personel or hired railroad workers and do they connect with any other railroads??

US military trains are operated by members of the Transportation Corps (the ghuys who usually drive trucks). Ft Polk used to have a railroading training school, that taught steam operations until the 1980s.

Virtually every base with a rail line on it connects with a civilian road. The whole point of the base lines is to shuttle munitions, supplies and heavy equipment around, and to either receive or send it across the country via the nation's rail network. The only major exception would be one of the (probably all gone) base narrow gauge lines.

[csmith9474]

All the narrow guage is gone.[:(]

[Anonymous]

US Military Railroads is very much alive. It is a important part of our war fighting.

Once in a while a few trains roar south with hundreds of DOD flatcars empty heading to the equiptment.

[Anonymous]

The Army has military bases that are transportation bases. They have all modes of transportation and military personnel are trained on the use and functions of the various modes of transportation, depending on what unit you are assigned to.

I was stationed at Ft. Eustis, Va back in 1964. They had trains and it would have been great to be assigned to them. With my luck, I wound up in boats and land/water vehicles.

Doug

[citylimits]

I was wondering if anybody was modeling or has experience of the USN RR car and Locomotives. Part of my layout will include a maritime theme as well as a Navy wharf used in WW2 for loading or unloading supplies. I am pretty sure how the wharf and surrounding area will look, but I am a bit stuck regarding Loco's and freight cars. Any ideas anybody?
Cheers
Bruce

[Anonymous]

The Chehalis-Centralia RR has two pieces surplus from USN Base Bremerton. Depressed Center Flat with 6-wheel trucks (Blt 1919) and a mobile crane. The flat is heavily fabricated with rivets. They probably be willing to help you on detail questions you have.

[PNCROSE]

The outlook for military railroads at Navy installations is bleak. The Navy has been turning to trucks since the early 80's and shutting down base RR operations. The three that I am most familiar with, Naval Station Norfolk, NWS Yorktown, VA, and Norfolk Naval Shipyard, Portsmouth, VA have been shut down or scaled back their operations.

Norfolk Naval Station had an extensive system which reached most of the piers and contained a small yard. The former Virginian Railroad had their main coal offloading facility and yard where the current Navy Exchange, Dental and Medical Clinics now stand. A line also reached out to the former Naval Air Station. Ships received most of their supplies and equipment via rail. However, this was being used less and less from the 60's onward and was mostly just rusting by the early '80's. The tracks, some of which were in the streets and ran down the piers, were pulled up or paved over in the mid-90's in spite of a proposal to use them to connect with proposed light rail service to Virginia Beach and downtown Norfolk (sailors commute too). A freight station remains near ADM Taussig BLVD with an ex-Southern caboose on a stretch of track next to it (as of ca 2000). Two small GE switchers in faded yellow paint rested outside the fence next to a grain elevator. An ALCO diesel with either CC or A1A trucks once sat derelect for years near the carrier piers. The slanted cab sides were evidence that it was built for use in Europe. The piers were constructed of concrete and were open. Only the Supply Piers (3 and 4) had buildings somewhat like the Walther's pier structure but less ornate.

NWS Yorktown ceased using trains for weapons transport in the late '90's. Now each weapon is brought out on a flat bed truck vice several of them on a string of 50' flatcars. Most of the view of the weapons station from the York River is obscured by a healthy forest. The pier is L shaped to keep the ships far out in the river for obvious reasons. Some covered barges may also be moored to the pier.

The shipyard in 2000 still had an extensive rail network, but was seldom used. The rail network reached all of the piers and surrounded the dry docks. One of the more interesting track arrangements was where the tracks for the large traveling cranes crossed the railroad tracks. Most of the rail movements in the '90's were to position flat cars, boxcars or tank cars for various purposes (carry heavy equipment and tools and offload fuel or other chemicals). They would generally stay put for months while a ship was being overhauled. No equipment was fit for interchange and stayed on the shipyard property. Navy railroad equipment is normally painted gray similar in color to the ships. Some tank cars were black. Flat cars were '50' as I recollect and boxcars and tank cars were 40' and all were built in the 1940's and '50's. Some box cars had the roof walks removed. Some tank cars had the little scaffold surrounding their single domes. Reporting marks were USN and the cars did not carry Navy insignia or the name of the base they were assigned to. Motive power were GE center cab switchers painted yellow (the Bachmann 44 tonner would be a good stand-in although I think the locomotives in use at the shipyard were 60 ton). The Walthers Front Street Warehouse is a good stand-in for the buildings on the shipyard many of which were built in the decades following the Civil War. Newer buildings tend to be on the fringe near the fence line.

[Anonymous]

Driving from NJ down to VA i s Trains loaded with tanks and hummers and other's all head for kosovo or coming back , it all had KFOR stamped on it

i also have a militay train complet with US Army rolling stock from Model power

[PNCROSE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by citylimits

I was wondering if anybody was modeling or has experience of the USN RR car and Locomotives. Part of my layout will include a maritime theme as well as a Navy wharf used in WW2 for loading or unloading supplies. I am pretty sure how the wharf and surrounding area will look, but I am a bit stuck regarding Loco's and freight cars. Any ideas anybody?

From aerial photos I've seen of the Naval Station at Norfolk, VA, the primary motive power would have been 0-6-0's and 2-8-0's. I am assuming that they were of USRA design and I don't have any detail for markings. Freight cars would have been typical freight cars of the period both government and private railroads. The majority of the ones in the photo were regular railroad cars and most were 40' box cars.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PNCROSE

QUOTE: Originally posted by citylimits

I was wondering if anybody was modeling or has experience of the USN RR car and Locomotives. Part of my layout will include a maritime theme as well as a Navy wharf used in WW2 for loading or unloading supplies. I am pretty sure how the wharf and surrounding area will look, but I am a bit stuck regarding Loco's and freight cars. Any ideas anybody?

From aerial photos I've seen of the Naval Station at Norfolk, VA, the primary motive power would have been 0-6-0's and 2-8-0's. I am assuming that they were of USRA design and I don't have any detail for markings. Freight cars would have been typical freight cars of the period both government and private railroads. The majority of the ones in the photo were regular railroad cars and most were 40' box cars.

The government didn't own any USRA engines (and the USRA never designed a 2-8-0). The steam used was all Baldwin, from the 2' gauge stuff right up to the lend-lease 2-8-0s used during WWI and WWII. Both types of Consolidations are available as kits from DJH, and the 0-6-0T is available from Hornby in OO.

[Anonymous]

The Department of Defense runs the trains on military bases and when I was in they were run by civilian personell from the DOD, There used for moving munitions large Equipment and supplies from the main lines to the post main storage and distrubtion centers. this could have changed since then but this was true for all the posts that I was stationed on also the Fire Depts are manned by civilians too. I got out in 1995.

[GRR7315]

I can remember US Army TRAINMASTERS [black with yellow lettering] laying over at Kingston PA (NEPA) at the DL&W roundhouse in the early 60's. *never did get to see them when they left. Berwick PA (manufactured tanks, etc.) was about 25 miles south. Military trainings would pass northbound going to Scranton and wherever. This was the Bloom (Bloomsburg) Branch that connected the DL&W with the Pennsy at Northumberland PA, *along the Susquehanna River. Also, a town or 2 away (and again I didn't get any photos) about 4+ years ago, LAG (equipment etc.) in Duryea PA had 2 or more US AIR FORCE coal hoppers [ blue with white lettering]. In Ashley PA, +/- post Agnes Flood (June 1972) here in the Wyoming Valley there were (2) US Army Hospital Cars in the ol Jersey Central yard at the Glen Alden Breaker and yard. Before I got out of the Air Force in '71 I was at Sumter South Carolina and I believe an Air Force Center Cab used to interchange tank cars. [:)]

[leighant]

My Navy rolling-stock info file:

U.S. Navy X-100 boxcar built 1942, pix similar to Navy cars that
became ATSF Bx-55, Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953 p.140

U S N X 8538, 50' PS-1 w 9' opening 1 1/2 door
RailModel Journal Dec95 p.30

USN 61-00200 MicroTrains boxcar, appears to be USRA double-sheath
TexNRails collectors item ad N Scale SepOct92 p.6
note: question whether Navy actually had USRA double-sheath cars
not listed in USRA double-sheath roster _MRRing_ May88 p.34

U S Navy Porter center-cab diesel America's Fighting RRs p.54

Visit my US Navy blimp base at htpp://www.railimages.com/gallery/kennethanthony

[Anonymous]

There are still army manuals for train operations. TM5 -627, Maintenance of Trackage, and TM 5-628, Railraod Track Standards, are available at http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/usace-docs/armytm/. http://www.military-info.com/mphoto/P030f.htm#rail lists (but not available) historic army manuals for train operations. http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:y3aHVUWCz0YJ:www.transcom.mil/j5/pt/dtrpart3/dtr_part_iii_app_aa.pdf+Military+railroad+operations+manual&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 provides additional info on rail operations. http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/html/516067.htm is a DoD instruction providing info on the Defense Freight Railway Interchange Fleet program run by the Surface Deployment and Distribution Command. http://www.rtands.com/mar01/army.html provides info on an Army reserve unit base in Connecticut with responsibilty for train operations in wartime.

You might also you might look at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/4-01-41/. Army Field Manual 4-01.41 Army Rail Operations is a relatively recent manual and focuses on army rail ops in conflicts and specifically mentions the European area. Details how rail ops would be conducted and how trains would be set up.

[Wdlgln005]

Many bases have a rail link to the outside world. They may have bought the otherwise abandoned branchline. THis is true od Fort Cambell in KY. The Airborne gets some of their supplies via Hopkinsville, KY. Building the base in the 40's may have saved the Tennesse Central for a time. A GP-9 could have been inherited from a shortline.

[jrbarney]

Readers interested in military railroads during the Civil War might want to join the Yahoo! group
on this topic. Go to:
http://www.yahoogroups.com
and type in Civil_War_RRs or send an Email to:
[e-mail] .
Bob Barney
NMRA Life 0543

[jimrice4449]

There's a little known aspect tp RR/Military history. Durring WWI the US and the Brits both had narrow guage operations to feed supplies to the front lines. I don't have any references to hand but I believe they were about 2' guage and used panel track sections. They were temporary structures, designed to be taken down and set up as and where needed. Woulsn't it have been neat to ba able to pick up some of that war surplus for the back yard (assuming you have a REALLY BIG back yard)

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimrice4449

There's a little known aspect tp RR/Military history. Durring WWI the US and the Brits both had narrow guage operations to feed supplies to the front lines. I don't have any references to hand but I believe they were about 2' guage and used panel track sections. They were temporary structures, designed to be taken down and set up as and where needed. Woulsn't it have been neat to ba able to pick up some of that war surplus for the back yard (assuming you have a REALLY BIG back yard)

Jimrice4449,
Here's what a keyword search at the Index of Magazines turned up, using "trench" as the keyword:

Narrow Gauge Digest - Trench Engines of the Lost River
NMRA Bulletin, April 1970, page 10 ( "DERR, JOHN", MILITARY, NARROWGAUGE, STEAM, TRENCH, ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, BL )

Narrow Gauge Digest - Trench Engines of the Lost River, part II
NMRA Bulletin, July 1970, page 28 ( "DERR, JOHN", MILITARY, NARROWGAUGE, STEAM, TRENCH, ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, BL )

If I remember correctly, there have also been some articles in the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

Any one know of how to reach USN railcranes?
I have found 84-00305,84-00412, but I was looking for link where I can get photos and maybe disposition of some of the other types.

[lonewoof]

While I was in the Air Force in Rome, NY (1961-1964) there were 2 ALCO diesels, painted dark blue and lettered "USAF"
that were used to shuttle cars on- and off-base. They carried mostly electronic equipment and lumber for making
packing crates and pallets. They were operated by civilian crews, and had a nice little 2-stall engine house where they
could stay out of the weather and get light maintenance. (I'm not sure HOW light; I think there was an inspection pit in the
engine house. I have one tiny picture of one of them, running through the snow, but can't really tell exactly what they
were. I think probably RS-1's or RSD-1's.
The base trackage interchanged with the NYC.

[wjstix]

Troop trains (outside of the Civil War) were never run by the military, they were civilian trains usually using Pullman and RR owned cars. These trains would not have been pulled by US military locomotives, the military engines were used to connect a base to a railroad to bring supplies etc. in.

I saw military engines working in central Wisconsin while riding the Empire Builder a couple of years ago, so military railroading is still an ongoing operation.

[Anonymous]

Two points of interest.
First, living about 150 yds from the spur off of the mainline through Colorado Springs onto Ft. Carson, I can tell you that the primary purpose of military railroads these days is to transport ALL of the vehicles long distances. Practically any mainline leading from a post holding a major COMBAT unit (i.e. Ft. Riley & 1st Infantry, Ft. Carson, 4th ID & 3d ACR, Ft. Hood, 1st Cav & III Corps) is going to see substantial traffic. Up until the beginning of OIF, the main destination was Ft. Irwin, and NTC. These trains were dropped at Yermo, an extension of the Marine Logistics Base in Barstow California. Now days, they are enroute to and from Beaumont, TX, and the port there, where tanks, brads, Humvees, trucks, and containers, etc., are loaded on to the RIRO ships that dock there for transport to the Kuwaiti Naval Base. The consists are almost exclusively DODX marked versions of the TTX series flat cars.

Secondly, although I absolutely SUCK at locomotive power nomenclature, there are two engines which sit on post, painted primarily crimson with yellow highlighting and lettering. There design is quite similar to the ones that hauled hoppers through the UP branchlines of western Kansas in the 70s. I'd guess they're either GP30s or something equivalent.

OK, so it's three things. The US Army Reserve still maintains a few (read 2-3) Transportation Companies which are Rail based. Since I signed up in 1991, and probably prior to that, there have not been any active duty SOLDIERS on the rails. Instead, the local mainline provides a locomotive to drop the 100+ cars, and the US Army engines shuffle them through the download process at the railhead. Just last week, a BN remarked engine was pulling a load of empties out of Carson back to the main yard in the Springs.

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by docpalmberg

Two points of interest.
First, living about 150 yds from the spur off of the mainline through Colorado Springs onto Ft. Carson, I can tell you that the primary purpose of military railroads these days is to transport ALL of the vehicles long distances. Practically any mainline leading from a post holding a major COMBAT unit (i.e. Ft. Riley & 1st Infantry, Ft. Carson, 4th ID & 3d ACR, Ft. Hood, 1st Cav & III Corps) is going to see substantial traffic. Up until the beginning of OIF, the main destination was Ft. Irwin, and NTC. These trains were dropped at Yermo, an extension of the Marine Logistics Base in Barstow California. Now days, they are enroute to and from Beaumont, TX, and the port there, where tanks, brads, Humvees, trucks, and containers, etc., are loaded on to the RIRO ships that dock there for transport to the Kuwaiti Naval Base. The consists are almost exclusively DODX marked versions of the TTX series flat cars.

Secondly, although I absolutely SUCK at locomotive power nomenclature, there are two engines which sit on post, painted primarily crimson with yellow highlighting and lettering. There design is quite similar to the ones that hauled hoppers through the UP branchlines of western Kansas in the 70s. I'd guess they're either GP30s or something equivalent.

OK, so it's three things. The US Army Reserve still maintains a few (read 2-3) Transportation Companies which are Rail based. Since I signed up in 1991, and probably prior to that, there have not been any active duty SOLDIERS on the rails. Instead, the local mainline provides a locomotive to drop the 100+ cars, and the US Army engines shuffle them through the download process at the railhead. Just last week, a BN remarked engine was pulling a load of empties out of Carson back to the main yard in the Springs.

They finally yanked out the switch up here at the Academy when they replaced all the wood ties with concrete.

Another interesting note is that many of the military locomotives (diesel) were dual guage.

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

The government didn't own any USRA engines (and the USRA never designed a 2-8-0). The steam used was all Baldwin, from the 2' gauge stuff right up to the lend-lease 2-8-0s used during WWI and WWII

Not quite. The 60cm gauge 2-6-2s used in WWI were built by Baldwin, Vulcan and Davenport. I'm not ceratin about the WWI "Pershing" 2-8-0s, but the WW2 S160 2-8-0s were built by BLW, ALco and Lima. The WW2 USATC 2-8-2s and derivatives were also built by the big three, and the Canadian builders as well.

Cheers,

Mark.

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimrice4449

There's a little known aspect tp RR/Military history.

I'd hardly call it "little known", there has been a considerable amount of literature published on trench railways, it's a very popular modelling subject, and there is much equipment preserved and operating all over the world.

QUOTE: Durring WWI the US and the Brits both had narrow guage operations to feed supplies to the front lines. I don't have any references to hand but I believe they were about 2' guage and used panel track sections.

All of the major combatants in the Great War had trench railways. The French pioneered the concept, using 60cm equipment from Decauville.

All the best,

Mark.