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RDC questions

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Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, December 24, 2022 9:04 AM

NVSRR

By the time RDcs appeared, mail service was mostly done.  so some of the RPOs could have been converted to buffet/diners 

Shane

 

The RDCs first appeared in 1949 and were manufactured until 1962. The USPS cancelled their rail mail contracts in September of 1967. What doomed the RDC was a law passed in 1958 that allowed railroads to abandon passenger service on lightly traveled branchlines. Budd ceased manufacture a few years later. Existing RDCs continued to see service as commuter trains with some still in use in the mid 1980s. 

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Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, December 24, 2022 8:52 AM

 I am personally sceptical regarding such figures as such “tests” are generally run at the equipment’s optimum performance.
 

 
Lots of good info, Bear. The above statement jumped out at me. In my 
working life which ended over 20 years ago, I supervised a small team
of computer programmers. When programmers test their work, their tendency is to try to prove their programs work. I tried to impress upon them that a good test plan will try to prove it doesn't work. Do everything you can to break it. That is how you discover the flaws that don't show up when testing under normal conditions.
 
The same approach can be applied to just about every endeavor including model railroading. When you test your trackwork, don't use your best equipment. Use your worst equipment. Use your biggest locos and your longest rolling stock, even if you don't think it will be used on that section of track. If your trackwork can handle that, it's probably pretty good. If it can't handle all your equipment, at least you will know what can or can't be run on a particular section. 
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, December 24, 2022 6:59 AM

I was told the reason an RDC could not tow a coach was because the drive system was already at its maximum ability with just the weight of the RDC. The limitation was not because of lack of power from the pair of Detroit Diesel 110 series engines.

Also,  the 110s were equipped with low volume injectors to effectively detune them and increase the operating range. The injection capacity of the mechanical injectors in the Budd RDC engines was more in line with what would be found in a 71 series Detroit Diesel.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, December 23, 2022 11:28 PM
Gidday Tom, if there is gobbledy-goop / gobbledy-gook and a computer, you can be sure I’m blindly doing my thing!!Confused  Thanks for fixing those links.
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, December 23, 2022 11:02 PM

I rode one of those NYC EMU hauled RDCs out of Grand Central Terminal.  To reverse the train in GCT they rode around a subterrainian loop.  At North White Plains (end of 3rd rail at that time) the RCD disconnected and continued running north.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, December 23, 2022 10:59 PM

I recall back in the '70s when it was rumoured that the TH&B was going to end passenger service, so drove into Hamilton to get a ride on a pair of RDCs, heading down to Buffalo, New York.
I'm not sure, but that particular train probably ran out of Toronto, as both cars were quite full when I got aboard at the Hamilton station.

The train ended-up at the large station in Buffalo, and the majority of riders got aboard buses to go shopping.  I spent the day wandering around the station and taking pictures of trains and locos.

When it was time to return to Canada, the buses came back and the train was soon filled. 

Upon leaving, the train was moving very slowly, due to the very poor condition of the track, and some of the passengers were complaining that they were going to miss their connections, due to the slow speeds...both cars were rocking quite severely to each side, and small lineside trees were brushing against the cars' windows, too.

The conductor assured the riders that "once we get back onto some good TH&B track, we'll easily make-up that time."

Once we crossed back into Canada, and stopped for the Border Service folks to check for dutiable purchases, we were back in motion.

As we began to pick-up speed, the din of normal conversation began to lessen, then, as we began going even faster, no one was talking.

I was watching the mileposts, and checking my watch, and realised that we were travelling at just a couple miles-per-hour over 90...this lasted pretty-well until we came to the descent down the Niagara Escarpment, where there were very restrictive speed limits, due to the grade into Hamilton, and then to the station.  I'm pretty certain that nobody missed their connection that day.

Wayne

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, December 23, 2022 9:45 PM

OldEngineman
I believe that with the straight air valve cut out, it was possible to tow an RDC in a train "as another car".

"In tow" behind a pair of NYC EMUs:

 NYC_RDC_M-455 by Edmund, on Flickr

Limiting factor to hauling another car, I believe was the fluid torque converter and the fact that only the inside axles were driven on the RDC. Budd strongly discouraged it but some roads did it.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by OldEngineman on Friday, December 23, 2022 9:38 PM

The RDC's that I worked on in my early days had a "straight air" brake valve (i.e., functioned like the independent brake on an engine, moving the handle rightward increased cylinder pressure, to the left to release it), not automatic air brakes. These were on former New Haven cars (perhaps a few from other RR's as well) in Amtrak service by then.

In that configuration, you couldn't control the brakes on a trailing coach (or any car set up for "regular" air brake operation), because you could not make a "brake pipe reduction" (if there was a way to do that, I don't remember, it's been 40+ years).

I believe that with the straight air valve cut out, it was possible to tow an RDC in a train "as another car".

Other railroads may have had different air brake setups.

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Posted by NVSRR on Friday, December 23, 2022 8:57 PM

I was always told the rdc did not have the power to move a unpowered trailer and itself.  they were noty designed that way. 

By the time RDcs appeared, mail service was mostly done.  so some of the RPOs could have been converted to buffet/diners 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by DSO17 on Friday, December 23, 2022 4:45 PM

John-NYBW
I also read that they were used on a Philadelphia-Pittsburgh train with dining car service. None of the versions of the RDC I read about were diners so this would indicate a standard dining car was part of the consist.  

B&O ran a Philadelphia - Pittsburgh RDC Train called "Daylight Speedliner". Whenever I saw it, it was three cars. The lead car had a buffet section. If you do a search for B&O Daylight Speedliner you should come up with more information.

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Posted by ndbprr on Friday, December 23, 2022 2:49 PM

the longest run was probably the Western Pacific Zepherette or the British Columbia RR. The PRSL ran multiple car trains as much as 10 cars from Philadelphia to various New Jersey seashore towns.  cars would be broken off at various branchs.  Apparently it was common knowledge that pulling trailers voided the warranty but I have no proof of that.  I doubt the story about really long distance with a dining car.  The PRR didn't have any.  NYC and B&O did.  Might check with someone who knows about those railroads.  B&O would be the only railroad beside PRR that could have run Philly to Pgh.

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Posted by tstage on Friday, December 23, 2022 2:18 PM

Hi Bear,

Fixed the first two .pdf links for you.  Looking at that URL in your post, Chrome added some kind of gobbledy-goop before the https:// prefix that the forum software didn't like or recognize.  Once I removed that, everything behaved nicely.

You also don't need to add the bracketed "urls" before and after the link; just paste the URL in the body of your reply and hit Enter.  It will automatic become a link.  The only time you need the bracketed "urls" is when linking to a thread on this forum.

Tom

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, December 23, 2022 1:23 PM
Gidday John, the following regarding fuel consumption of the Budd RDCs was an interesting 3 coffee search.
 
Section 26 in this manual informs us that the Budd RDC have a 250-gallon tank.
 
 
This report published October 1952, carried out for Budd, tells us on page 9, that the fuel consumption on a 430-mile test run was established at 3 miles per gallon.
 
 
I am personally sceptical regarding such figures as such “tests” are generally run at the equipment’s optimum performance.
 
This September/October 2022 article gives the Budds in current operation, 2.5 miles per gallon.
 
 
Of course, the figures would vary depending on what engines were fitted, how much use the air conditioning was getting, how stop and start the actual service was, and the average grade of the railroad that the RBC was running on!
 
So doing the maths, the range varies, depending on which figures you use, between 625 and 750 miles though you would be sucking on fumes at that stage.
 
Cheers, the Bear.Smile
 
EDIT.  Unfortunately, I don’t seem to make the two PDF links live, though if you highlight them, then right click, you should be able to left click on the “go to chrome extension//….

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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RDC questions
Posted by John-NYBW on Friday, December 23, 2022 11:38 AM

I've been researching the history of RDCs. My research tells me they were used primarily in commuter service and lightly traveled branchlines. I still have a couple of questions that I have been unable to find answers for.

What was the range of the RDCs between fueling stops. The only thing I could find was they were sometimes used on medium length routes without defining what a medium length was.

I also read that Budd discouraged the use of RDCs in tandem with non-powered cars. This implies that some railroads did use them with non-powered coaches. 

I also read that they were used on a Philadelphia-Pittsburgh train with dining car service. None of the versions of the RDC I read about were diners so this would indicate a standard dining car was part of the consist.

 

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