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Branchline combine question

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, July 31, 2022 9:41 PM

dehusman
 

That won't work. The depot is at the end of the line. There isn't room to pull the whole train past the depot to get the combine in front of the depot. That's the reasn for putting the combine at the front and having a separatte caboose on the rear. 

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Posted by dehusman on Sunday, July 31, 2022 5:32 PM

John-NYBW
I thought about including this bit of information but didn't want to complicate the question. I plan to also have a caboose that will be at the opposite end of the train from the combine.

Not a typical arrangement.    No need for a caboose on the head end and combine on the rear.

John-NYBW
The mixed train will be doing setups or pickups in either direction so I'm thinking it would have a crew member at both ends of the train to set switches.

That's what the engine is for and why there are seats on the other side of the cab from the engineer.  The head brakeman rides the engine.

John-NYBW
With a few more switching moves, it could get ahead of the combine and pull it in. It just seems like it would be a simpler solution to just drop the freight portion of the train in the arrival yard and then pull the combine to the depot. 

What they would typically do is pull the ENTIRE train down to the depot, spot the combine in front of the depot.  Unload passengers, then do whatever they have to with the freight cars.  Unload passengers first.

John-NYBW
This leads me to another question. On a branchline or shortline train in the steam era, would there be a full five man crew of conductor, engineer, fireman, front and rear brakemen, or would any of them pull double duty?

They would have at least that many crew members and what do you mean "double duty".  The engine crew is not interchangeable with the train crew.  The brakemen are interchangeable.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, July 31, 2022 5:27 PM

regardless of how many crew members it took there won't really be any on a model train. good question though

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Posted by crossthedog on Sunday, July 31, 2022 3:47 PM

John-NYBW
If I were to use the combine as the caboose and keep it on the tail end in both directions, when the train returns to the terminus, it would have to pull into a yard track, the loco would uncouple, runaround the train and pull the combine off the year of the train and then push it into the depot.

This is the same situation I'm facing at my terminus. I had pretty much decided to do the opposite. Keep the combine directly behind the loco going up the branch so that I could pull into the depot with it, disengage the loco, bring the loco back along the runaround/escape track, and then start pulling freight cars off the rear of the train. This way the passenger car would only come to a stop once and not be moved again until it was ready to go back. I had assumed the railroads would not want passengers to have to wait through a lot of end-of-the-trip switch-banging while they were travel sore and eager to use a decent restroom.

However, I have also considered having the combine at the rear coming in, and having passengers alight at a platform down-track from the station a bit, and then have the loco switch the car off the train "a few minutes later", after pax had disembarked. This would also solve another problem, the mixed train will be picking up stock cars at the terminus, and having the coach behind a load of cattle on the way back down the branch would be...ah... suboptimal.

So I'm paying close attention to this conversation.

-Matt 

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

DrW
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Posted by DrW on Sunday, July 31, 2022 2:46 PM

John McCall's book "Coach, Cabbage & Caboose..." has lots of pictures of Santa Fe mixed trains. In nearly all of them there is a combine at the end of the train. The two exceptions have a caboose at the end and no combine at all; in these trains the rare passenger had to ride in the caboose. To me, the most interesting pics showed a "mixed" train consisting of five F units, 55 freight cars, and a combine.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, July 31, 2022 7:01 AM

MidlandMike

I understand at one time in some jurisdictions a caboose (passenger cars qualify) must be on the end of a train.  Conductor needed to monitor brake pressure at end of train, and a crew member needed to flag the end of train for an unscheduled stop or backup move.  It also places crew in both parts of a separated train.

 

I thought about including this bit of information but didn't want to complicate the question. I plan to also have a caboose that will be at the opposite end of the train from the combine. The mixed train will be doing setups or pickups in either direction so I'm thinking it would have a crew member at both ends of the train to set switches. It would be behind the loco leaving the terminus and at the tail end on the return trip. If I were to use the combine as the caboose and keep it on the tail end in both directions, when the train returns to the terminus, it would have to pull into a yard track, the loco would uncouple, runaround the train and pull the combine off the year of the train and then push it into the depot. With a few more switching moves, it could get ahead of the combine and pull it in. It just seems like it would be a simpler solution to just drop the freight portion of the train in the arrival yard and then pull the combine to the depot. 

This leads me to another question. On a branchline or shortline train in the steam era, would there be a full five man crew of conductor, engineer, fireman, front and rear brakemen, or would any of them pull double duty? The typical consist for this train would be 4-8 freight cars. 

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, July 31, 2022 6:26 AM

Oh!  The beauty of railroad operations either side of 'the pond'.

Here in the U.K.  a Brake Second (Class)  passenger car would always be at the rear of a branchline combine;  either direction.

The use of a brake van (caboose)  is not neccessary  as the passenger car does the same job.

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, July 30, 2022 10:52 PM

I understand at one time in some jurisdictions a caboose (passenger cars qualify) must be on the end of a train.  Conductor needed to monitor brake pressure at end of train, and a crew member needed to flag the end of train for an unscheduled stop or backup move.  It also places crew in both parts of a separated train.

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Posted by Little Timmy on Saturday, July 30, 2022 8:26 PM

Sometimes the combine WAS the caboose. 

( don't know why I had to post in  2 halves...)

 

Rust...... It's a good thing !

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Posted by Little Timmy on Saturday, July 30, 2022 8:25 PM

Rust...... It's a good thing !

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, July 30, 2022 6:02 PM

dehusman
They tended to put the passenger car on the rear of the train.

Another question...

Would a mixed train with a combine on the rear also have a caboose?

Always, often, sometimes, seldom, or never?

Would the caboose be in front of or behind the combine?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, July 30, 2022 5:30 PM

Nope, no problem either way, they tended to put the passenger car on the rear of the train.  Less slack action while switching.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Branchline combine question
Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, July 30, 2022 4:57 PM

My branchline runs a daily mixed passenger/freight train. Passenger service is provided by a lone combine. At the terminus, the passenger depot is on a stub track with no escape track. It makes sense to spot the combine at the depot, then back the freight portion of the train onto the combine. When the train returns to the terminus, it makes more sense to have the combine right behind the loco (a Ten Wheeler). The freight cars can be dropped off in a small yard and the loco then pulls the combine by itself into the depot. 

My plan is not to turn the combine at either end of the run. When running at the back of the train, the passenger compartment will be in the rear. On the return trip with the combine right behind the loco, the passenger compartment will be on the end nearest the loco.

My question is whether this would violate any regulations or standard practices. I don't want to resort to the "it's your railroad" excuse.

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