You guys will laugh, but I'm asking anyway, because someone will know. I've been considering buying a tank car or two and thinking what kind of industry I might want in my little town at the end of the branch. Something fun, I was thinking. Then I saw that Walthers offers (and many manufacturers have offered throughout the years) a tank car emblazoned with the Baker's Chocolate logo and its famed femme, Jean-Étienne Liotard's La Belle Chocolatière. So taken was I with the idea of spotting this car at some factory on my branch line that I started doing research. In the back of my mind I was wondering, how on earth can any one factory use that much liquid chocolate at one time? And as I read about what products Baker offered, I started thinking, maybe these cars didn't haul liquid chocolate, maybe they hauled formaldehyde and gasoline and kaolin like the Gulf and Sinclair and other cars. Maybe this car was just an advertising opportunity.
That got me wondering how tank cars are used in general. When did a factory get spotted tank cars bearing the name of their product and when did they get spotted cars bearing the logo of the railroad serving them? Was it a function of the size of the factory (or the company that owned it)? What if it was a small, one-off factory? Or did tank cars just get moved around will-i nill-i so that you'd spot the Baker's Chocolate car at a cheese factory while picking up their empty GATX car or a Conoco car?
I realize this is a bonehead question with too many subquestions, but if anyone cares to throw a few clues my way I'd be appreciative.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
I can't give you a prototypical answer but I will mention that I have that baker's chocolate tanker car on my layout.
It makes deliveries to the small bakery / cafe that is located in the little town that I have on the layout. It would absolutely make no sense at all in the real world but it makes me smile when I run it so that's why I have it.
You might say I was taking an unconscionable liberty.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I would have a candy bar manufacturer that made that product. You could also have PFE reefers bringing in coconut from the Pacific. Also peanuts from the south, in boxcars or reefers. There would also be tankers carrying molasses. Products shipped out would require refrigeration so, more reefers or, insulated boxcars.
AblebakercharlieI have that baker's chocolate tanker car on my layout. It makes deliveries to the small bakery / cafe that is located in the little town that I have on the layout. It would absolutely make no sense at all in the real world but it makes me smile
Here’s a link to a previous discussion… https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/p/261509/2943186.aspx
Bummer that all the links to photos, book covers and articles in that thread are already dead links after just four years.
crossthedogBummer that all the links to photos, book covers and articles in that thread are already dead links after just four years.
That tank car mostly would bring in vegetable oil or cocoanut oil or corn syrup. that is what is brought in to modern food processing plants today.
Shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Just an FYI. Railroads didn't own tank cars. The shipper or recieving company would own the cars for their own products. The railroads would just move and maintain them under contract. Tank cars had and still have special rules for use and movement. You wouldn't want a tank hauling gasoline and the next load be canola oil. Any type of thick liquid would need an outer jacket for steam heat to help unload. Molasses and crude oil shipments come to mind. I once saw a documentary on gelletin manufacturing. Cattle bones were brought in by open top hoppers, rendered down by acid brought in by tank cars and shipped out by another tank car and in powder form in bags on pallets in box car. That's four different cars just for one product.
Pete.
wrench567 The railroads would just move and maintain them under contract.
They would be moved and maintained just like any other car. Movement was under a waybill and charged at tariff rates during the period of the cars in question. Running repairs would be done by the railroad, heavy repairs would be the responsibility of the owner/lessor and done at their shops or a contract shop, just like any other private car.
Tank cars had and still have special rules for use and movement. You wouldn't want a tank hauling gasoline and the next load be canola oil.
HAZMAT tank cars have special rules for movement. A non hazmat tank car is just another car. You can put a tank car of chocolate next to any car you like, there are NO restrictions on its placement. There are NO restrictions on placing hazmat next to food products.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Baker's Chocolate tank cars showed up at the Clark Candy plant in Pittsburgh,Pa. They made Clark Bars among other candy.
Athearn sold their "chemical tank car" lettered for Baker's Chocolate even though it is not the correct type of car.
Mark Vinski
mvlandswAthearn sold their "chemical tank car" lettered for Baker's Chocolate even though it is not the correct type of car.
I wonder whether the 'honey' tankcar would be the right size or level of detail. Then we might see if Walthers or someone would provide decals, or have the artwork photographed off a car, corrected in something like Photoshop, and used to produce decals.
Probably far too 'niche' for almost anyone... but if you wanted something special, if only has to be set up once to be ready to make more...
Molten chocolate syrup. Hot for flowing out of the little valves easily. That's my fantasy railroad's back story and I'm sticking to it....
I could see standard corn syrup being delivered to a bakery very frequently. And, that a bakery or candy sweets company could advertise on the tank car.
In Anderson/Lapel Indiana, there is a Nestle Chocolate factory. Not a liquid, but the powdered drink mix. Lots of sugar comes in covered hoppers. Sweets need sugar.
I never saw the name NESTLE on the side of the covered hoppers though. Modern times are so boring!
Edit: As has been mentioned, a bakery would be a big user of vegetable oil.
- Douglas
OvermodI wonder whether the 'honey' tankcar would be the right size or level of detail.
In my experience a "honey tanker" is not something I want to see unloading at anyplace that deals with food. Just sayin.
dehusman Overmod I wonder whether the 'honey' tankcar would be the right size or level of detail. In my experience a "honey tanker" is not something I want to see unloading at anyplace that deals with food. Just sayin.
Before dehusman's comment, I thought maybe it was an un- or lightly decorated car. If so, a month or so ago I saw a post by Kevin (See You 190) about a reliable Decal Guy he uses. But if I went to that trouble I'd want to know what tank car type would have been available in the 1950s, or more to the point, which types were NOT yet available.
Where I am, a "honey dipper" is the guy who comes to empty out your septic tank. By extension, a honey tanker...
We had a discussion a while back about one of those 'beer can' tank cars lettered for a honey company. That, and not super-suckers or thunder mugs, is what I was attempting to reference.
crossthedog And as I read about what products Baker offered, I started thinking, maybe these cars didn't haul liquid chocolate, maybe they hauled formaldehyde and gasoline and kaolin like the Gulf and Sinclair and other cars.
And as I read about what products Baker offered, I started thinking, maybe these cars didn't haul liquid chocolate, maybe they hauled formaldehyde and gasoline and kaolin like the Gulf and Sinclair and other cars.
No.
Tank cars are specialized, and even "general service" designs aren't "general service" the way a boxcar is general service; since a) 99% of tanks are leased by and controlled by shippers and b) different commodities may require different design features or tank sizes and c) even commodities that can use the same design require the car to be fully cleaned out before switching commodities.
crossthedogMaybe this car was just an advertising opportunity.
There are rules against that. (Third party advertising lettering that isn't the car owner/leseee/assignee.) Imagine you're PepsiCo loading your product into a car supplied by the railroad with Coca Cola advertising all over it.
The car will be lettered Baker's Chocolate because it's leased and used by Baker's Chocolate.
crossthedogThat got me wondering how tank cars are used in general. When did a factory get spotted tank cars bearing the name of their product and
If the company owns or leases cars and puts their name on it.
crossthedogwhen did they get spotted cars bearing the logo of the railroad serving them?
Almost never (in the case of tank cars), since railroads generally didn't own tank cars, except for their own company service, like diesel fuel, work train water cars, etc. Most tanks would be owned or (more commonly) leased by the shipper.
A vast majority of the tank cars you see out there are owned by one of several major leasing companies (UTLX, GATX, etc.).
crossthedogOr did tank cars just get moved around will-i nill-i so that you'd spot the Baker's Chocolate car at a cheese factory while picking up their empty GATX car or a Conoco car?
Tank cars are highly specialized, and dedicated to specific commodities. To change the commodity loaded into a tank car, it must be completely cleaned out at a specialized maintenance facility. Otherwise loads will be contaminated by previous product. Additionally, different types of commodities require special linings, fittings, etc. and different sizes of tank cars are designed for different densities of product.
Because of how specialized and restricted tanks care, 99% of them are leased by shippers on a long or short term basis. And company logos/graphics will be for the car's lesee or owner. So you'll only see a Conoco car at a Conoco facility, or a facility receiving from Conoco. And that Conoco car will never carry a food grade product.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
I found the slide of Baker's Chocolate GATX 31058 that I made in Feb. 1971 in the Penn Central Island Avenue yard on the northwest side of Pittsburgh, Pa.
The car in the book "Railroad Freight Car Slogans & Heralds" by John Kelly shows GATX 31057, the same type of car in 1961. They were both built in 3/54 and appear to be identical except for some lettering updates.
Although the caption in the book says that the cars carried bulk corn syrup and liquid sweetener both cars are clearly stenciled "chocolate only"
A real Baker's Chocolate car:
Where is Sunshine Models when we need them????
Ed
Book about Baker's Chocolate Compay
https://www.amazon.com/Baker-Chocolate-Company-Regional-Histories/dp/1596293535
From Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Railroad-Freight-Slogans-Heralds-Archive/dp/1583882766/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Railroad+Freight+Car+Slogans+%26+Heralds&qid=1641616776&sr=8-1
Facebook Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/731349993660555/about
Factory converted to apartments
https://livewellbakerschocolate.com/
https://www.architecturalteam.com/projects/baker-chocolate-factory-complex/
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
What I'm curious about is why no two instances of the prototype and no two models offered in HO scale have the same dome type. Here's the cover of Henderson's book showing 31057, the same one as on the cover of Kelly's book.
There's hardly any dome at all. And yet the one in the photo Ed posted above has a dome like the turret of the USS Monitor. I think it's the MTH version that comes closest to this photo. The Walther's Trainline version looks more like Ed's photo, but its dome is more rounded, doesn't look so much like the neighborhood kids got ahold of some sheet metal and a welding torch.
@Chris, thanks for addressing my questions directly. Good historical info that helps me determine how I'll use this car.
Tangent's 1917 design, radial course, 8000 gallon, insulated tank car closely resembles UTLX 61895. What we really need is Champ, or Walthers, back when they made decals, for the lettering.
crossthedog What I'm curious about is why no two instances of the prototype and no two models offered in HO scale have the same dome type. Here's the cover of Henderson's book showing 31057, the same one as on the cover of Kelly's book. There's hardly any dome at all. And yet the one in the photo Ed posted above has a dome like the turret of the USS Monitor.
There's hardly any dome at all. And yet the one in the photo Ed posted above has a dome like the turret of the USS Monitor.
But someone could scratchbuild that car and make resin castings, or set up to 3D-print it or critical details of it, or provide proper decaling for it...
They could be getting various components that go into the chocolate such as an oil or even milk (as in milk chocolate). They would be making hundreds of gallons/pounds and hour so slot would be needed.
Sean, the unknown train travler,
traintravler They could be getting various components that go into the chocolate such as an oil or even milk (as in milk chocolate). They would be making hundreds of gallons/pounds and hour so slot would be needed.
from an earlier post:
"...both cars are clearly stenciled "chocolate only" "
NHTX I would have a candy bar manufacturer that made that product. You could also have PFE reefers bringing in coconut from the Pacific. Also peanuts from the south, in boxcars or reefers. There would also be tankers carrying molasses. Products shipped out would require refrigeration so, more reefers or, insulated boxcars.
Chocolate. That is all that would be hauled. Ingredients would come via specificaly marked tankers or hoppers. I feel like this has been said multiple times at this point.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
Yesterday is History.
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present.
JJF,
I think they are expanding the subject to include assorted other ingredients hauled in assorted other cars to businesses that do not make chocolate, but use it.
Myself, I am getting perilously close to ordering one of the upcoming Athearn cars, and maybe modifying the dome, if I can get a decent picture.