7j43k I suspect that the entity shipping the product is the one to arrange for the tank car, as opposed to the receiver. Thus cars leased to Baker's Chocolate would never be sent out to pick up a product. You could argue that their cars could be used for a backhaul, and that's probably true, with their permission. But it is extremely unlikely that the company that received the chocolate now just happens to need to ship a car of not-chocolate to Baker's Chocolate. And some other company that might use the car wouldn't know to ask. I suppose that Baker's Chocolate could have set up some sort of special repeat routing, with everyone on board. But that CHOCOLATE ONLY lettering kind of goes against that. Plus the backhaul would have to be compatible with chocolate, or they'd have to clean the tank at each end, every time. That runs the shipping price up. And then they would have written CHOCOLATE AND XXXXXX ONLY. Ed
I suspect that the entity shipping the product is the one to arrange for the tank car, as opposed to the receiver. Thus cars leased to Baker's Chocolate would never be sent out to pick up a product.
You could argue that their cars could be used for a backhaul, and that's probably true, with their permission. But it is extremely unlikely that the company that received the chocolate now just happens to need to ship a car of not-chocolate to Baker's Chocolate. And some other company that might use the car wouldn't know to ask.
I suppose that Baker's Chocolate could have set up some sort of special repeat routing, with everyone on board. But that CHOCOLATE ONLY lettering kind of goes against that. Plus the backhaul would have to be compatible with chocolate, or they'd have to clean the tank at each end, every time. That runs the shipping price up. And then they would have written CHOCOLATE AND XXXXXX ONLY.
Ed
Agreed.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
Yesterday is History.
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present.
7j43kYou could argue that their cars could be used for a backhaul, and that's probably true, with their permission.
Yeah, no backhaul for tank cars since you'd have to ship the SAME product back...
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
So, again, I strongly believe it is a chocolate only car. Corn syrup would be hauled in a specially marked car. "Corn Syrup Only". These cars are often labeled by a company like ADM or Cargill. Sugar would be hauled in a specially marked covered hopper. "Sugar Only". It could me marked by a railroad, or by a leasing firm. Milk would be by truck. Vegetable oils would be hauled in a specifically marked car. Perhaps with a Cargill logo, or just a leasing firm. I think that for almost every tank car which hauls commodities that you and I will end up ingesting, the car is going to be labeled. This only or that only. Those 10,000 gal cars hauled everything, but each car only ever carried one or two things. I highly doubt that Bakers chocolate would send their specific car to a corn syrup manufacture to be filled. More likely, they would buy x amount of car loads, and they would receive those loads in leased cars.
Look closely, in the shadow of the hand rail on the near end of 31057 that Ed posted. Doesn't that look like "chocolate only" hiding in that shadow? Wouldn't it be nice if some decal manufacturer offered decals for these cars?
I notice that the car in the picture that Ed-7j43k posted has a sign specifying chocolate only, but the car in Ohio-Ed's photo does not, which makes me think maybe Baker's used the "chocolate only" cars for chocolate only and some of their other cars for corn syrup, vegetable oil and whatever else they needed to haul. Just an idea. Perhaps JDawg has an opinion about this?
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
The most recent example Ed posted looks to be a two-compartment car.
Dark chocolate in one tank, milk chocolate in the other ?
A Jif peanut butter car might be handy about now... might make a clever commercial.
Here's another:
A Sweet Car by Chris Tokarcik, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
I ain't yellin' at you Dawg.
I did find still another Baker's Chocolate car:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/79009322@N04/8679337990/
note "CHOCOLATE ONLY"
Doughless OK. So the car says "chocolate only". Then obvioulsly, only chocolate is shipped in the car. If its something else: Bakers Chocolate company could be hauling ingredients to make chocolate, or ingredients to make any other chocolate product they sold. Like Hershey's Chocolate company makes candy bars, not just chocolate. I guess we'd want to know what Bakers Chocolate company actually made.
OK. So the car says "chocolate only". Then obvioulsly, only chocolate is shipped in the car.
If its something else:
Bakers Chocolate company could be hauling ingredients to make chocolate, or ingredients to make any other chocolate product they sold.
Like Hershey's Chocolate company makes candy bars, not just chocolate.
I guess we'd want to know what Bakers Chocolate company actually made.
Oooh, Ooooh! I know this one! A- Chocolate. Final answer.
Don't yell at me too much guys. I just can't resist this tread. It has two of my favoirte things. Chocolate, and an opportunity for sarcasm.
- Douglas
JJF,
I think they are expanding the subject to include assorted other ingredients hauled in assorted other cars to businesses that do not make chocolate, but use it.
Myself, I am getting perilously close to ordering one of the upcoming Athearn cars, and maybe modifying the dome, if I can get a decent picture.
Chocolate. That is all that would be hauled. Ingredients would come via specificaly marked tankers or hoppers. I feel like this has been said multiple times at this point.
NHTX I would have a candy bar manufacturer that made that product. You could also have PFE reefers bringing in coconut from the Pacific. Also peanuts from the south, in boxcars or reefers. There would also be tankers carrying molasses. Products shipped out would require refrigeration so, more reefers or, insulated boxcars.
I would have a candy bar manufacturer that made that product. You could also have PFE reefers bringing in coconut from the Pacific. Also peanuts from the south, in boxcars or reefers. There would also be tankers carrying molasses. Products shipped out would require refrigeration so, more reefers or, insulated boxcars.
traintravler They could be getting various components that go into the chocolate such as an oil or even milk (as in milk chocolate). They would be making hundreds of gallons/pounds and hour so slot would be needed.
They could be getting various components that go into the chocolate such as an oil or even milk (as in milk chocolate). They would be making hundreds of gallons/pounds and hour so slot would be needed.
from an earlier post:
"...both cars are clearly stenciled "chocolate only" "
Sean, the unknown train travler,
crossthedog What I'm curious about is why no two instances of the prototype and no two models offered in HO scale have the same dome type. Here's the cover of Henderson's book showing 31057, the same one as on the cover of Kelly's book. There's hardly any dome at all. And yet the one in the photo Ed posted above has a dome like the turret of the USS Monitor.
What I'm curious about is why no two instances of the prototype and no two models offered in HO scale have the same dome type. Here's the cover of Henderson's book showing 31057, the same one as on the cover of Kelly's book.
There's hardly any dome at all. And yet the one in the photo Ed posted above has a dome like the turret of the USS Monitor.
But someone could scratchbuild that car and make resin castings, or set up to 3D-print it or critical details of it, or provide proper decaling for it...
Tangent's 1917 design, radial course, 8000 gallon, insulated tank car closely resembles UTLX 61895. What we really need is Champ, or Walthers, back when they made decals, for the lettering.
There's hardly any dome at all. And yet the one in the photo Ed posted above has a dome like the turret of the USS Monitor. I think it's the MTH version that comes closest to this photo. The Walther's Trainline version looks more like Ed's photo, but its dome is more rounded, doesn't look so much like the neighborhood kids got ahold of some sheet metal and a welding torch.
@Chris, thanks for addressing my questions directly. Good historical info that helps me determine how I'll use this car.
Book about Baker's Chocolate Compay
https://www.amazon.com/Baker-Chocolate-Company-Regional-Histories/dp/1596293535
From Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Railroad-Freight-Slogans-Heralds-Archive/dp/1583882766/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Railroad+Freight+Car+Slogans+%26+Heralds&qid=1641616776&sr=8-1
Facebook Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/731349993660555/about
Factory converted to apartments
https://livewellbakerschocolate.com/
https://www.architecturalteam.com/projects/baker-chocolate-factory-complex/
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
A real Baker's Chocolate car:
Where is Sunshine Models when we need them????
I found the slide of Baker's Chocolate GATX 31058 that I made in Feb. 1971 in the Penn Central Island Avenue yard on the northwest side of Pittsburgh, Pa.
The car in the book "Railroad Freight Car Slogans & Heralds" by John Kelly shows GATX 31057, the same type of car in 1961. They were both built in 3/54 and appear to be identical except for some lettering updates.
Although the caption in the book says that the cars carried bulk corn syrup and liquid sweetener both cars are clearly stenciled "chocolate only"
crossthedog And as I read about what products Baker offered, I started thinking, maybe these cars didn't haul liquid chocolate, maybe they hauled formaldehyde and gasoline and kaolin like the Gulf and Sinclair and other cars.
And as I read about what products Baker offered, I started thinking, maybe these cars didn't haul liquid chocolate, maybe they hauled formaldehyde and gasoline and kaolin like the Gulf and Sinclair and other cars.
No.
Tank cars are specialized, and even "general service" designs aren't "general service" the way a boxcar is general service; since a) 99% of tanks are leased by and controlled by shippers and b) different commodities may require different design features or tank sizes and c) even commodities that can use the same design require the car to be fully cleaned out before switching commodities.
crossthedogMaybe this car was just an advertising opportunity.
There are rules against that. (Third party advertising lettering that isn't the car owner/leseee/assignee.) Imagine you're PepsiCo loading your product into a car supplied by the railroad with Coca Cola advertising all over it.
The car will be lettered Baker's Chocolate because it's leased and used by Baker's Chocolate.
crossthedogThat got me wondering how tank cars are used in general. When did a factory get spotted tank cars bearing the name of their product and
If the company owns or leases cars and puts their name on it.
crossthedogwhen did they get spotted cars bearing the logo of the railroad serving them?
Almost never (in the case of tank cars), since railroads generally didn't own tank cars, except for their own company service, like diesel fuel, work train water cars, etc. Most tanks would be owned or (more commonly) leased by the shipper.
A vast majority of the tank cars you see out there are owned by one of several major leasing companies (UTLX, GATX, etc.).
crossthedogOr did tank cars just get moved around will-i nill-i so that you'd spot the Baker's Chocolate car at a cheese factory while picking up their empty GATX car or a Conoco car?
Tank cars are highly specialized, and dedicated to specific commodities. To change the commodity loaded into a tank car, it must be completely cleaned out at a specialized maintenance facility. Otherwise loads will be contaminated by previous product. Additionally, different types of commodities require special linings, fittings, etc. and different sizes of tank cars are designed for different densities of product.
Because of how specialized and restricted tanks care, 99% of them are leased by shippers on a long or short term basis. And company logos/graphics will be for the car's lesee or owner. So you'll only see a Conoco car at a Conoco facility, or a facility receiving from Conoco. And that Conoco car will never carry a food grade product.
We had a discussion a while back about one of those 'beer can' tank cars lettered for a honey company. That, and not super-suckers or thunder mugs, is what I was attempting to reference.
Where I am, a "honey dipper" is the guy who comes to empty out your septic tank. By extension, a honey tanker...
dehusman Overmod I wonder whether the 'honey' tankcar would be the right size or level of detail. In my experience a "honey tanker" is not something I want to see unloading at anyplace that deals with food. Just sayin.
Before dehusman's comment, I thought maybe it was an un- or lightly decorated car. If so, a month or so ago I saw a post by Kevin (See You 190) about a reliable Decal Guy he uses. But if I went to that trouble I'd want to know what tank car type would have been available in the 1950s, or more to the point, which types were NOT yet available.
OvermodI wonder whether the 'honey' tankcar would be the right size or level of detail.
In my experience a "honey tanker" is not something I want to see unloading at anyplace that deals with food. Just sayin.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Molten chocolate syrup. Hot for flowing out of the little valves easily. That's my fantasy railroad's back story and I'm sticking to it....
I could see standard corn syrup being delivered to a bakery very frequently. And, that a bakery or candy sweets company could advertise on the tank car.
In Anderson/Lapel Indiana, there is a Nestle Chocolate factory. Not a liquid, but the powdered drink mix. Lots of sugar comes in covered hoppers. Sweets need sugar.
I never saw the name NESTLE on the side of the covered hoppers though. Modern times are so boring!
Edit: As has been mentioned, a bakery would be a big user of vegetable oil.
I wonder whether the 'honey' tankcar would be the right size or level of detail. Then we might see if Walthers or someone would provide decals, or have the artwork photographed off a car, corrected in something like Photoshop, and used to produce decals.
Probably far too 'niche' for almost anyone... but if you wanted something special, if only has to be set up once to be ready to make more...
mvlandswAthearn sold their "chemical tank car" lettered for Baker's Chocolate even though it is not the correct type of car.