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Seaboard 2-6-6-4 locomotives

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Seaboard 2-6-6-4 locomotives
Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 1, 2021 10:09 AM

I have on my "to buy" list two articulated locomotives, a N&W class A 2-6-6-4, and a N&W class Y 2-8-8-2. I already have the B&O 2-8-8-4 class EM.

This is my planned stable of SGRR articulated locomotives.

I think they look like they belong together, and the fleet would be approrpiate.

However, I just found out about another 2-6-6-4 operated by the SEABOARD AIR LINE, and later the BALTIMORE AND OHIO. I love the double chimneys on this one, but I hate the front mounted air compressors.

From what I have read, the air compressors were moved to the front when B&O acquired them from SAL. 

I have two questions:

1) Does anyone have a picture of one of these 2-6-6-4s in SAL service without the air pumps on the front?

2) Can anyone confirm a model has been made of the older version?

Thanks.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 1, 2021 12:28 PM

Where I think you're coming to grief is what B&O did with the pumps when they acquired these locomotives.

All the pictures I've seen of these excellent locomotives show 'flying pumps', right from their builder's photos.  B&O found the forward engine a bit slippery and as a test on one engine moved the pumps "forward" all right... onto the pilot deck of the forward engine, much as you see on the EM-1 you pictured.  In my opinion that is a much more logical place to put them if you improve the lateral guiding on the lead truck accordingly.

I don't have an immediate source for drawings showing the modification, but I suspect they do exist.  A 'freelanced' conversion would be easy enough to design and make

As I recall, the account in B&O Power noted these KB-1s as being among the best (and best-loved by those who ran them) engines B&O had.  You would likely make no mistake with them (although if you were 'buying used' one of the "passenger" As with the Timken rods might be better still if you weren't going to lug it... Stick out tongue)

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, April 1, 2021 6:12 PM

The two photos I could find easily showed that the Seaboard locomotives had their air pumps on the boiler fronts when build in 1935.

A builders photo of 2501:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sal/sal-s2501a24.jpg

And a photo of her sister 2504:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sal/sal-s2504ggC.jpg

And this one appears much the same after B&O ownership:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7707d18.jpg

Sheldon

    

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 1, 2021 6:15 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
The two photos I could find easily showed that the Seabord locomotives had their air pumps on the boiler fronts when build in 1935.

Thanks Sheldon, that is exactly what I was needing. I think I will stick to the N&W Class A an planned.

It is interesting that the builder photo of 2501 shows an air compressor underneath the left running board that 2504 does not have.

I appreciate the help.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, April 1, 2021 6:21 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
The two photos I could find easily showed that the Seabord locomotives had their air pumps on the boiler fronts when build in 1935.

 

Thanks Sheldon, that is exactly what I was needing. I think I will stick to the N&W Class A an planned.

It is interesting that the builder photo of 2501 shows an air compressor underneath the left running board that 2504 does not have.

I appreciate the help.

-Kevin

 

That may not be an air compressor, but it is interesting that it is different from the other locos.

It could be a feedwater heater pump? 

Sheldon

 

    

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Posted by BigJim on Thursday, April 1, 2021 9:17 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

It could be a feedwater heater pump? 

Sheldon

That is exactly what it is.

.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 2, 2021 5:08 AM

SeeYou190
It is interesting that the builder photo of 2501 shows an air compressor underneath the left running board that 2504 does not have.

That is a pretty characteristic Elesco feedwater-heater pump (CF?) for a coil-type heater.  The heater chamber is that thing ahead of the stack that looks in the picture like a Bradford or maybe Chambers front-end throttle -- follow the piping.

Ed probably has diagrams of the internal arrangement of this type of pump.

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, April 2, 2021 5:25 AM

A general arrangement at least:

 Elesco1_zpsdfejh59s by Edmund, on Flickr

I can scan and post the internals of the pump if requested.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 2, 2021 6:27 AM

gmpullman
I can scan and post the internals of the pump if requested.

Requested.  Smile

The description of the Elesco systems is on p.357 (section 4-357) of the '47 Cyc.  The coil heater internals (as of that era) are fig. 4.11 on p.356; the CF-1 reciprocating pump is 4.14 and the alternative centrifugal DL-6 is 4.13, both on p.358.  (Confusingly the 'hydraulic control valve' for the DL-6 is fig. 4.14A where it would have been more appropriate as 4.13A)

As far as I can tell the CF-1 is like two double-acting pumps in one casing.  How the porting to and from these is arranged is not clear to me in the diagram; the two devices to left and right of the pump block are fancy no return valves (suction on the right/rear, discharge on the left/front) and I presume the idea is to provide higher-than-boiler pressure on the cold water going up to the coil (vs. an open-type which needs a separate high-pressure stage that will work with hot water without tending to 'flash')

There is a kind of 'teachable moment' here.  In part of the introduction to the 13th Edition, we read that in order to keep the volume to manageable size, a great deal of 'prior' technology no longer actively marketed by manufacturers has been quietly omitted (and anyone wanting to know about it is told to consult prior Cyc editions).  By 1947 the Superheater Company was touting ESI, so there is a version of Ed's 'locomotive-installed view' across a two-page spread (4-360-361)... but nothing for the closed FWH systems.

Incidentally I see Precision Scale made the CF-1 pump in HO and there are a couple available on eBay.  We had a thread many years ago on modeling this system:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/18372.aspx

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Posted by dknelson on Friday, April 2, 2021 11:57 AM

There is something racy and "fast" looking about those Seaboard articulateds.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, April 2, 2021 12:25 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
It could be a feedwater heater pump? 

BigJim
That is exactly what it is.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

dknelson
There is something racy and "fast" looking about those Seaboard articulateds.

Yes there is, and those double chimneys make it even more like a "hot-rod" steamer.

Dual exhausts! Vroom-vroom!

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, April 2, 2021 2:06 PM

I have always liked these, but $1,200 brass locos are generally past my point of deminishing return.

Now a $400 die cast/plastic model, you could put me down for at least two.

Because nearly ever loco on the roster has a mate, or two, or 7..........

I respect the quality/nature of brass models, it is just not how I generally allocate my hobby budget.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, April 2, 2021 4:12 PM

Overmod
Requested. Smile 

 Elesco_CF_0002 by Edmund, on Flickr


 Elesco_CF by Edmund, on Flickr


 Elesco_CF_0001 by Edmund, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 2, 2021 4:22 PM

SeeYou190
 
dknelson
There is something racy and "fast" looking about those Seaboard articulateds.

Yes there is, and those double chimneys make it even more like a "hot-rod" steamer...

Looks are not deceiving. Consider what these were replaced by, in dieselization just before the ICC order went into place that allowed high speed without ATS ... units with 120-mph passenger chassis, 3000hp, eight motors geared for 85mph and reputedly operated often at that speed.  

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, April 2, 2021 5:39 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I have always liked these, but $1,200 brass locos are generally past my point of deminishing return.

Since I only intend to buy 5 more locomotives... ever, I can now allow myself to get exactly what I want.

My only locomotives with duplicates are GP9s, EMD Es & Fs, Alco FAs, Alco PAs, and USRA light & heavy Mikados. I do not need anymore of any of these.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, April 2, 2021 8:32 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I have always liked these, but $1,200 brass locos are generally past my point of deminishing return.

 

Since I only intend to buy 5 more locomotives... ever, I can now allow myself to get exactly what I want.

My only locomotives with duplicates are GP9s, EMD Es & Fs, Alco FAs, Alco PAs, and USRA light & heavy Mikados. I do not need anymore of any of these.

-Kevin

 

I understand, and agree in many ways. In fact I can only make a list of five or ten more locos that I would/will buy.

I am about right at what I need to operate the new layout, anything more would be "extra" just because I can.

I already have two N&W Class A's, five C&O/USRA 2-6-6-2's, two USRA 2-8-8-2's, a B&O EM-1 and a C&O Allegheny. So even for my layout, I'm pretty full up on big articulated power.

If I fell into a good deal on one of these, I might spring for it because it is a unique loco that fits my theme well. But I'm not going on a hunt.

I always liked the idea of having multiples that give the layout that "big railroad" feel. Having locos of the same types sitting in the engine terminal gives that credibility.

Also, many railroads simply prefered some wheel arrangements and disliked others, so there is no quest on my part to have "one of everything".

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 4, 2021 11:16 AM

Thanks for the CF pump information -- much of that would be difficult to find otherwise.

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Posted by PM Railfan on Sunday, April 4, 2021 5:22 PM

Kevin - "I only intend to buy 5 more then im done"

Me - "Kevin, when im in the poor house from buying too many, please dont forget to drop a nickle in my cup when you pass me by on the corner."

LaughLaughLaughLaugh

 

Seriously, go for that brass loco. Its win-win, it gets a good home - you get and endless amount of smiles. How can you turn your back on that poor lil homeless double stack loco???? Cant you see the sadness in its headlight?

I agree with Sheldon. A full loco facility is a happy loco facility. It does give that... 'big railroad' feel. Having duplicates only adds to it by never having to see the same road numbers over and over too (think staging).

Maybe not what the S&G is looking to do, but i am looking forward to seeing pics of all those cars you do, behind some nice locos when you get your layout up. The double stacker would look good in S&G livery. Even sitting next to a Class A in the S&G facilities.

If you bought it, could you really look it straight in the headlight and say - "gee, i shouldnt have done that."?

 

Douglas

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