Hi Everyone,
One of the industries we have on our club layout is the G. Roberts Printing Inc. building from Walthers.
In the builing description it says "a very large firm might also choose to receive ink in talk cars"
I've been looking all over the web, looking to see who might have shipped ink in tank cars in the 1970s and 1980s. I can't find anything.
Tangent models makes a tank car that might be the right one, but I'd like to see a prototype photo of such a car, either in a siding, or at the manufacturer. What companies did this, what cars did they own or lease, and what kind of reporting marks might there have been. Any ideas?
Are these a possibility: https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/general-american-6000-gal-3-comp-tank-car/
Thanks for any input.
Greg
My GATX Tank Car Manual (2nd ed.) is dated 1966. In one section it has a commodity list, gives the ICC section number for regulations, then "classed as" for type of commodity, and then specifications for the tank car.
There are hundreds and hundreds of commodities -- really interesting and a good source of ideas for someone wanting a "different" industry on their layout.
Anyway ... Ink. The regulation in 1966 was 73.144. Classed as F.L. meaning Flammable Liquid. Specifications: 111A100-W-1; 103-W.
I think of a 103-W as being a more or less plain Jane classic 8000 or 10,000 gallon (and some larger) tank car with full center sill and side running boards.
111A100-W-1 would suggest the larger 18,000 and 20,000 gallon tank cars with end stub sill but no center sill or side running boards. Some with multiple compartments.
What I glean from this is that ink was certainly regarded as a potential tank car load, and the rules and requirements were in place to tell what kind of car it should be shipped in. Does that mean there was even one such tank car in "ink service?" No, but I think it makes it probable.
Dave Nelson
Printer's ink if shipped by rail, would no doubt be shipped by boxcar. Most likely by truck. Printer's ink is not a liquid ....
The chemicals to MAKE printer's ink could very well be shipped by tank cars, but that would be a rather large chemical plant, not an end user printing plant. Look at the rail siding of any large (and I mean LARGE) printing plant .... all box cars. I worked in a decent size print shop for 25 years. It was at least the size of the Walthers building and we got one transport truck per day.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Mark R.It was at least the size of the Walthers building and we got one transport truck per day. Mark.
Mark,Our industries as a rule is to small for rail service and some to small for a 53' trailer and Roberts Printing is no exception..Roberts would need to be at least 2'x3' just to look like it needs rail service.
Several years ago I attended a clinic on designing a ISL and the clinician suggested placing industries along the backdrop so they can appear to be larger. A example would be to slice Roberts Printing in two equal parts and placing them along the backdrop and now you have a large industry that gives the illusion it needs rail service.
In reality we should use the larger industry kits like Roberts for rail served industries and leave small industries like the Pikestuff warehouse as nonrail served..
YMMV.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Mark R.The chemicals to MAKE printer's ink could very well be shipped by tank cars, but that would be a rather large chemical plant, not an end user printing plant.
Actually I think a small facility would work. Take a look at:
http://mrr.trains.com/sitecore/content/home/articles/2017/04/taking-care-of-business-sms-rail-lines
one of the MR videos. It is called Taking Care of Business - SMS Rail Lines. About 20 minutes in they show tank cars being switched into a company called Central Ink. Doesn't look like a giant place to me.
That building looked it could receive a boxcar and the building could be a low relief.
Mark R. The chemicals to MAKE printer's ink could very well be shipped by tank cars, but that would be a rather large chemical plant, not an end user printing plant.
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That industry looked like
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
maxmanone of the MR videos. It is called Taking Care of Business - SMS Rail Lines. About 20 minutes in they show tank cars being switched into a company called Central Ink. Doesn't look like a giant place to me.
Again all things railroad nips me in the caboose. I should know better by now and to add insult to injury that looks to be the size of a Pikestuff warehouse.
Also the lading was ink according to the information at the bottom of the screen.
That's an interesting video. I just had to look at the park on Google Earth. Lot of small facilities with lots of rail cars. The plastics plant, Central Ink, (which may have changed owners and name) and Royal Sugar, just to name a few.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewi That's an interesting video. I just had to look at the park on Google Earth. Lot of small facilities with lots of rail cars. The plastics plant, Central Ink, (which may have changed owners and name) and Royal Sugar, just to name a few. Mike.
Mike,My Slate Creek Rail is based on Progressive Rail and a tad of SMS..These roads was what I was looking for my idea of a switching road that served a industrial park and PRS was in MR as a Railroad you can model and IIRC SMS was in Trains Magazine or maybe Railfan.
A daily newspapersuch as the Chicago Tribune would get ink in a tanker. They get their paper in boxcars.
Larry, after watching this video, and other areas I've searched, such the appliance park complex, I sure can understand why you like ISL's. Tons of action!
AAR Rule 90 prohibited cars built before July 1, 1974 from being used in interchange service unless it has been rebuilted per AAR Rule 88. The Code of Federal Regulations prohibits use of a freight older than 50 unless the owner gets an exception from the FRA. A car built in 1928 is unlikely to be in use in the 1970s or 1980s. Cars built in 1942 were probably hard to find by then.
Here is the former US Ink plant in San Leandro (since closed). There is no sign they received anything in tank cars but they did receive carbon black in the specialized covered hoppers.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Page 33 of "Classic Freight Cars--The Series" Vol. 3, "A Rolling Pipe Line of Colorful Tank Cars" by John Henderson has a photo of ACFX 89658, a two compartment large (25,000 gal. plus) tank car leased to Sun Chemical Corporation's General Printing Ink Division. The car is black with an orange band containing the black company name. Judging by the ink spills emanating from the manways, it only carried black ink. According to the photo caption, the car was built in 1972 and photographed in Maybrook NY the same year. This car would dwarf George Roberts Printing. An older 6000 gallon capacity car might be a better option, if you intend on rail shipments of ink.
NHTXThis car would dwarf George Roberts Printing. An older 6000 gallon capacity car might be a better option, if you intend on rail shipments of ink.
I would use a 16,000 gallon tank car with storage silos next to Roberts.
In the video that Central Ink is about the size of a Pikestuff warehouse-I checked it on Bing map's "bird's eye" view.
On the other hand I attended college in Phillie and walked by the Bulletin (newspaper) building every day. It was rail served and I never saw a tank car spotted there. The Omaha World Herald (newspaper) is still rail served and only recieves paper by rail. While its possible for a printer to get ink by rail, its certainly not universal.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman On the other hand I attended college in Phillie and walked by the Bulletin (newspaper) building every day. It was rail served and I never saw a tank car spotted there. The Omaha World Herald (newspaper) is still rail served and only recieves paper by rail. While its possible for a printer to get ink by rail, its certainly not universal.
Odd isn't? A small concern like Central Ink will recieve ink by tank car while larger concerns like large printers and newspapers will not.
One would think it would be the other way around.
I just had to look into Central Ink, or as I found out, it's Central Ink & Chemicals, CIC Inc.
Corporate headquarters in West Chicago, IL., and 6 other facilities around the country, Illinois,Wisconsin, Florida, California, Minnesota, and the one we are looking at, in New Jersey.
Looking at their products, they take ink and refine it into specialty ink products for use in the printing industries.
mbinsewiLooking at their products, they take ink and refine it into specialty ink products for use in the printing industries.
Ah,That would explain the small structure..A few mixing vats,storage tanks, a tank truck loading area and good to go.
The plant in IL., is also rail served. Earth image shows tank cars, and tank trucks.
What this thread is telling me is that if a company makes inks, then it recieves chemicals of basic inks in tank cars, produces retail or wholesale ink and ships that out in boxcars or by truck. The end consumers of inks (printing presses) don't appear to use tank cars of ink.
While not described in the video, this video at 59 sec shows the ink being transfered to a large roller. The roller transfers the ink to the printing plate. The ink is not liquid. It is a paste. If ink is recieved by rail it would probably be in a boxcar or container.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBpeoCW8Xq8
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
DSchmittIf ink is recieved by rail it would probably be in a boxcar or container.
Liquid ink can be shipped in tank cars as the SMS video shows-the tank car lading is shown on the bottom of screen during that move.
dehusman What this thread is telling me is that if a company makes inks, then it receives chemicals of basic inks in tank cars, produces retail or wholesale ink and ships that out in boxcars or by truck. The end consumers of inks (printing presses) don't appear to use tank cars of ink.
What this thread is telling me is that if a company makes inks, then it receives chemicals of basic inks in tank cars, produces retail or wholesale ink and ships that out in boxcars or by truck. The end consumers of inks (printing presses) don't appear to use tank cars of ink.
Let's try this approach. Central Ink refines ink into specialty ink products for use in the printing industries as Mike stated.
Basically this is the process.
Raw ink in by rail and Central Ink refines it into specialty ink and ships it out by truck to printing industries.
Nothing new there since many industries recieves their bulk production needs by rail and ships by truck,container or boxcar.
Sun Chemical in East Rutherford, NJ makes printing ink. They just STOPPED using raik about 2 - 3 years ago. They have a 2 track yard that would hold about 8 cars. They used their own company owned tank cars, even labeled INK on the outside. NJT is just now starting to remove the switch that served the plant. Go to Google Earth and look up East Rutherford, NJ. Locate the train station and follow the tracks north. On the curve you will see Sun Chemical. It is even marked on Google Earth. You can see the layout with the storage tanks. Sun Chemical has a website. Maybe someone there would be willing to talk to you.
pajrrThey just STOPPED using raik
Russell
csxns pajrr They just STOPPED using raik Hope they go out of business for that.
pajrr They just STOPPED using raik
Hope they go out of business for that.
That's pretty uncalled for and vindictive. Plus, for all you know, continuing to use rail service might have been an untenable solution to shipping their product. It isn't a magic elixir for all customers.
NittanyLionThat's pretty uncalled for and vindictive
NittanyLionThat's pretty uncalled for and vindictive. Plus, for all you know, continuing to use rail service might have been an untenable solution to shipping their product. It isn't a magic elixir for all customers.
Or the railroad "starved" them out by not delivering their cars in a timely manner or the company could have a lost a major contract that caused a slow down in business.
Quad Graphics in Lomira Wisconsin got liquid ink in DOT111 tank cars at least while I was with the WC.
Randy
Obviously csxns is pissed because they didn't consult with HIM first.