cascadenorthernrr Also do you have any pictures of the ATSF tender you are speaking of?
Also do you have any pictures of the ATSF tender you are speaking of?
The internet does:
It had/has a water capacity of 24,500 gallons and 7,000 gallons oil.
Ed
I've seen a few pictures of two GN diesels with a specially painted GN tank car between them! Also do you have any pictures of the ATSF tender you are speaking of?
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
cascadenorthernrr Ok how would an extra fuel car be added and what would it look like? Oh and thanks Ed!
Ok how would an extra fuel car be added and what would it look like? Oh and thanks Ed!
If it's a fuel car only (and that's what you just wrote), it would likely be a tank car. Real straightforward and easy to do. And cheap.
Note that BN did the same thing for their diesels awhile back. At least some of their fuel tank cars were former CB&Q tank cars converted for the purpose.
If someone inspired me to do what I think you're interested in doing (adding additional fuel and water capacity behind a steam locomotive), I'd go with a tank car conversion trailing a ex-tender conversion. That's because by the time railroads were doing that, they were not going to put the big bucks into the task.
If you are aiming to be stylish, however, consider adding one of those big ole Santa Fe tenders with the eight wheel trucks. They carried LOTS of both oil and water. Then maybe trail another water car after that.
But a railroad would actually need a good reason. You; less of one.
cascadenorthernrr Also for oil burning locomotives were there auxiliary tenders that could carry fuel as well as water?
Also for oil burning locomotives were there auxiliary tenders that could carry fuel as well as water?
Typically (as in TYPICALLY), steam locomotive tenders carried enough fuel to travel two tenders-worth of water. So an auxiliary tender could get a loco past one "fueling" (water) stop. So there would be no need to carry extra fuel, 'cause you've got "enough".
Of course, if you wanted to go beyond that, it'd be time to add oil, too. Usually, railroads would just add a larger tender. GN swapped tenders all the time. It's much simpler than an extra fuel car.
Here is a GN O-1 with what is likely an original tender. May not be, because a lot of GN's tenders of that style existed. But it's still close:
Here's another O-1 with a tender it DEFINITELY was not delivered with. It is, in fact, a tender off of a 4-8-2. Note that it's much larger:
It's my impression that auxiliary tender useage started rather late in the life of steam locomotives (if someone can contradict, please do). Which means that railroads' attention was directed more towards diesels. Which means that they would put less "creative energy" into steam development. Who knows "what might have been"? Except that it WASN'T.
But, again, if you need more fuel and water behind the locomotive, just change to a bigger tender.
Ok thanks!
OK, aux tenders may have been used in passenger service but it was a rare happening. The N&W in the last couple years had one used on their E-2 Pacifics that ran the Bluefield-Norton passenger train. It was the N&W standard canteen they also used for freight trains. It was not a normal occurrance on the N&W and probably not any other road. Passenger trains were shorter, lighter and made more frequent stops so to drag all that weight was sort of counter productive.
You may see pictures of N&W Class J 4-8-4's with aux tenders but that use was after they were bumped to freight work and you will also probably see a doghouse on their tenders. This wasn't an N&W standard practice in passenger service. Many pictures of the aux tenders with the 611 are around but those are post revenue service shots.
If you are talking about the track pans used by several roads like PRR, B&O, NYC and a few others this has nothing to do with aux tenders. The track pans were an alternative to carrying a lot of water in larger tenders or having to stop to take on water. The track pans were located in a flat area naturally and could be quite long. The roads that used them tended to be Eastern ones where traffic density meant they needed to keep trains in motion and not sitting at tanks. They also tended to have much shorter tenders than many other roads due to older and tighter engine terminals limiting total engine length so they were limited in water capacity.
The tender would be equipped with a scoop lowered by the fireman by pneumatics at a designated spot. The scoop would drop into the pan and the forward momentum of the train would force water up the scoop into the tender. The train had to slow considerably from normal track speed to scoop water so as not to damage the tender or the pan or possibly derail or damage the tender structure.
Modeling track pans is preftty much up to your skills and imagination, I believe. I think there was someone that made some of the piping and fittings and stuff once in HO but I don't know any more than that. Cal-Scale makes a brass detail set for the tender portion that is made from the plans for the Pennsy system.
Hope this helps.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek ocomotive Works
Ok two questions; one, were aux tenders used for passenger service or just freight? Two, how could I model the water trough and tender chute system?
The Virginian Ry used them too. I've seen pictures of B&O, L&N and other roads with aux tenders back in the day too.
The N&W used them probably more than any other railroad. The extra water capacity allowed for faster schedules and additional tonnage per train. Not stopping for water meant they could keep moving along with a heavier train which saved water too.
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
cascadenorthernrr Hi all, I am wanting to know what other roads used auxiliary water tenders besides the N&W? Also for oil burning locomotives were there auxiliary tenders that could carry fuel as well as water?
Hi all, I am wanting to know what other roads used auxiliary water tenders besides the N&W? Also for oil burning locomotives were there auxiliary tenders that could carry fuel as well as water?
GN.
Not GN.
N&W used auxiliary tenders to enable steam locomotives to travel far distances without stopping for fuel. The auxiliary tender carried extra water.
I think B&O had some as well.
NYC did have at least a pair of small aux water tenders for their two 4-6-0s in southern Ontario, Canada (cant remember name of branch line, but I believe they were the last NYC locomotives in steam). Those were the exception, not the rule.
In modern excursion service, most steam locos pull an auxilary water tender, if only because there is no guarantee of getting water anywhere. Short lines like Strasburg don't, but running excursions over any distance, they usually will. Fuel is not usually an issue, but water always is - considering how dangerours it is if a steam loco runs low on water. When workign hard, water is often used at a much higher rate than coal, so a fully loaded tender may have enough coal to go, say 200 miles but the tender only holds enough water for 100 miles. Add on the extra water tender and now you can run until the coal runs out.
On some roads, like PRR and NYC which used a lot of water pans and tender scoops, they had tenders deliberately made to hold as much coal as possible and not huge water spaces, simply because they could refill the water on the fly all along the line, instead of making time wasting stops for water. Big enough coal capacity and no need to stop for fuel, either.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The largest user after the N&W was the B&O which had a number of Mike's outfitted with cylindrical auxiliary water tenders. A number of other railroads used tenders from scrapped locomotives as auxiliary tenders like the Milwaukee and MKT.
Usually the railroads did not need the fuel in the auxilary tender for steam locomotives as they would run out of water long before they would run out of fuel.
The UP did use auxiliary fuel tenders with their Gas Turbines, as they were notorius users of fuel.
Also only railroads with oil burning locomotives could have used an auxilary fuel tender as their was no way to transfer the coal to the first tender.
Rick Jesionowski
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