Having been on both sides of the camera, I can see the issues from both perspectives.
There are a lot of clueless people out there who foul live tracks, block sight lines, get vehicles stuck on access roads, leave trash, trespass on railroad property, trespass on other private property, take signs, placards, paperwork, wire, ties, material, etc.
Classic was I saw a pick up truck drive down an access road behind a storage yard. Went back to investigate and found a couple unloading barbells from the back of the truck because they wanted to exercise in the rail yard. No. Not happening. Told them to leave ASAP.
Another thing to consider is there are people who are not necessarily the most law abiding people that hang out places that are more out of the way. Wandering around by yourself with several hundred dollars worth of camera equipment hanging around your neck might not be the smartest position to put yourself.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusmanAnother thing to consider is there are people who are not necessarily the most law abiding people that hang out places that are more out of the way. Wandering around by yourself with several hundred dollars worth of camera equipment hanging around your neck might not be the smartest position to put yourself.
The fear factor over common sense. Seeing most rail yards are in less then desirable locations one should exercise common sense.Grab and run should come to mind.Take the photo then leave the area and go to a safer place.
At rail parks and railfan hot spots one should always be alert for trouble but,there's no need for paranoia over the boogeyman nor the police will arrived with mace and batton in hand..You see at hot spots they are use to seeing men standing around with cameras.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIEFirst the security guard has no right to tell you to delete your photos since trains are public.Even a LEO can't do that-there are exceptions that deals with national security..
This is absolutely the case.
I heard that from the head of Amtrak police himself at a Trains magazine sponsored forum in Chicago a few years back. Yes, police and security personnel do exceed their authority, what we civilians call "breaking the law," regularly in engaging in such practices, but it is illegal for them to do that without a warrant. Period.
Yes, there are exceptions, having to deal with national security, but these are typically very obvious and usually posted with signage indicating that's the case. See any signs to that effect? No? Then you're OK...if you're in a spot where the public has a right to be.
If you're in doubt about that, prior contact with the owning RR is ALWAYS advisable, but common sense will tell you a lot. If asked to move on, be polite and do so, it ain't worth the hassle.
But that's still not legal authority to delete your pics.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Well said Mike and I will add zoom is your friend. You can stand on pubic property and zoom in on a locomotive or freight car. I'm having issues logging into photo bucket or I would post a example of a zoomed photo.
Larry,
I will only add -- I am not a lawyer, but do have experience with this stuff as a writer, editor, and reporter -- that pictures are property just like anything else. To seize it requires a warrant or at least probable cause that some major crime was committed -- something beyond mere trespassing.
But wait, there's more...
Pictures also fall under the First Amendment's protections as free speech, which raises the ante even more. Seizing them is like seizing a article you wrote or your working notes as a reporter. Just because you're not on staff somewhere does not reduce these rights, which are held just as strongly by individuals as they are by journalistic enterprises.
So, no, they can't just go poking at your photos for "evidence" of trespassing or even as evidence of trespassing without paperwork that must clear several significant legal standards before an independent authority. It is not something that security personnel just have blanket authority to jump across at their whim on the spot.
Which doesn't mean they won't ask. Just be polite and firmly tell them no. If they are persistent, ask for a supervisor.
Finally got into photobucket. A zoomed photo taken at CSX Willard engine shop on a foggy Friday morning..Looks like I'm standing in CSX parking lot but,I on public property. The bottom sightly zoomed photo was taken from a public street that runs along NO&W at Tiffin,Oh..
The photo, below, of Norfolk Southern's Conway Yard, was taken from a city street, elevated somewhat above the expressway visible in the lower portion of the picture. We had parked alongside the sidewalk and crossed the street to get an unimpeded view. While we were snapping away, a police car (city police) pulled up behind our vehicle, and the officer, almost apologetically, said that a resident had reported suspicious individuals photographing the railyard. He was well aware that we were violating no laws, but was obliged to respond to the complaint. After exchanging a few pleasantries, he bid us good day.
Most of the time when I'm railfanning in the States, I'm with either a retired railroader or a retired rail cop (or both). They know the good spots where public access affords good photos or they know the people working for the railroad and have permission to be on railroad property. In addition to good opportunities for train pictures, shop tours and cab rides may also be offered.
Wayne
Odd place for a power boat on a trailer.
CentralGulf Odd place for a power boat on a trailer.
Not really. The hill at the right rear is on the other side of the Ohio River.
Back when I was a railfan-photographer, I always made it a point to search out someone to whom I could report my presence. In Japan I never had any problem as long as I stayed away from the rails. (In Japan, anyone who doesn't stay away from the rails is living out a death wish!)
More recently, here in the US, I've been asked for ID - to which I responded with my DD2-ret. Amazing how the clouds lift when MSgt sinks in.
There will always be authority freaks on power trips. Stay calm, comply with lawful requests, report the offender who makes an unlawful request. Sounds as if the IP nailed it.
Chuck [MSgt(ret) USAF modeling Central Japan in September, 1964]
Modeling on the cheap
dh28473has anyone had this problem around the vaugan cn yard or at the line crossing steel and jane in vaughan toronto area
I always thought Canada was filled with people who looked and sounded like Americans, without the crime or racial strife. The local news this last two weeks is about a college student who went to Toronto for a bachelor party was beaten to death by a group that just wanted to fight.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I guess with things being the way they are now a days, its appropo to mention Im thankful for having been alive during a time when you could snap a photo and get a wave of the hand, not a bat nor badge.
PM Railfan
PM Railfan I guess with things being the way they are now a days, its appropo to mention Im thankful for having been alive during a time when you could snap a photo and get a wave of the hand, not a bat nor badge.
Well said, and I share those sentiments.
CG
PM Railfan I guess with things being the way they are now a days, its appropo to mention Im thankful for having been alive during a time when you could snap a photo and get a wave of the hand, not a bat nor badge. PM Railfan
Actually,back in the 50/60s the Police was more hostile since they had far less restrictions concerning civil liberties. They could and would haul you in for a 24-48 hour lock up for "loitering" or they could freely thump you with their stick under the guise of resisting-no questions ask by anybody.. Some railroad bulls was more like a Gestapo in carrying out their duties.
My biggest fear today is not cops arriving with mace and baton in hand or the bogeyman but,those neighborhood watch thugs that goes far above their limits of observing and calling the police..
fourt As for the 5 or six pictures I deleted, none where something that I can’t get again when I go back, so no big loss.
When you delete a file the operating system just changes the name of the file. The file is still on the drive until that space is required and it is overwritten. Sometimes you can find the deleted files in the recycle bin. If not you can use a program like Pandora Recovery to find deleted pictures or videos. You will have the biggest chance of successfully recovering the files if you do not take any more pictures/videos or do anything which writes on the drive.
http://download.cnet.com/Pandora-Recovery/3000-2094_4-10694796.html
Dont tell anyone but when i got home from that trip, i used a program to recover the files, it also showed about 130 some other ones that i had dowloaded before that was still on the drive. I had got the program, cant remember the name when i deleted some files off a digtal camrecorder that i thought i had saved to the computers hard drive but didnt.
Went back to that rail yard last saturday, got a couple pictures of a passenger car that was there and a few other pictures. Didnt see hide or hair of that security guard.
BigDaddyI always thought Canada was filled with people who looked and sounded like Americans, without the crime or racial strife. The local news this last two weeks is about a college student who went to Toronto for a bachelor party was beaten to death by a group that just wanted to fight.
Hi Henry
That was a truly tragic incident. It was also a truly rare incident. The killers were arrested within a couple of days thanks to the cooperation of many who witnessed the crime.
Please don't judge Canada by the actions of three or four thugs. Random attacks are very rare. Unfortunately there are always exceptions. I think I can say with certainty that virtually every Canadian who heard about the tragedy was upset. It wasn't just a 6 o'clock 30 second news item. There was a huge outpouring of grief.
Oh, and by the way, we don't look and sound like you. You look and sound like us, except you don't say "eh"! Just kidding!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
We said "eh" for a while because of Saturday Night Live
We are way ahead of you on the murder rate. When I was in my 20's I'd go all over the city photographing. I never felt unsafe although it was a bit creepy driving around what was to become Baltimore's Inner Harbor, when it was just a bunch of piers. Now at 65, I feel like a target, even in the more upscale areas.
BigDaddy Now at 65, I feel like a target, even in the more upscale areas.
I just watched a news piece about another fatal attack on a US police officer. That's five officers dead in five days because of random attacks. My heart aches for their families and fellow officers.
I have a huge respect for anyone who chooses to serve as a police officer. There are a few who should never have been given a badge, but they are like the thugs in Toronto who killed the visiting student. They are the exceptions!