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I thought I a found historic photograph of EMD SW1 for SP...but I don't think so...

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I thought I a found historic photograph of EMD SW1 for SP...but I don't think so...
Posted by Espee Oregon Branches on Friday, February 19, 2016 12:34 PM

I've been looking for several months through various historical society photo archives around Salem, Oregon for photographs of the EMD SW1 switcher #1010 that SP sent to Salem, OR to switch the tight trackage around front street in 1941. I finally found this photograph of an EMD switcher in Salem yard in 1950.

http://photos.salemhistory.net/cdm/singleitem/collection/specialcol/id/1673/rec/100

But when i got to the workbench to examine the paint scheme for decal placement I was disappointed to realize it is not the same loco at all and the dead give away is the nose grill. Here is an HO example of the SW1 in the same paint scheme:

https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-9207 

I would really appriciate it if someone here can help me identify what EMD version this is. I have looked through several galleries already without any luck. Perhaps some of you trainheads can spot it right away :)

Thanks!

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Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, February 19, 2016 4:22 PM

not EMD, it is an ALCO S2 or S4.(S2 and S4 were turbocharged, 1000 hp)  I think it has Blunt trucks whch would make it an S2.  The S4 had AAR switcher trucks. The similar S1 and S3 (not turbocharged, 660hp) had a different stack and narrower radiator shutter area.

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by Espee Oregon Branches on Friday, February 19, 2016 4:29 PM

Oh my...that helps but totally changes the direction of my research. Thanks for the tip. Now I need to figure out if that is an S1 or S2. Supposedly the only difference is the S2 is post-war and has a turbocharger. Perhaps an SP roster will enlighten me.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, February 19, 2016 5:09 PM

Here’s a couple of pictures of early SP switchers.
 
  
 EMD SW-1
 
 
 Alco S-1
 
I think all of the early diesel switchers were delivered black with silver or white frame stripes, the orange tiger strips and halloween colors came about in the mid to late 50s.  The bloody nose red was much later.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, February 19, 2016 5:27 PM

I have learned something and withdraw my comment

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, February 19, 2016 5:41 PM

She's an Alco. RS's used AAR trucks, but these trucks are Blunt style, which means S-1 or S-2. The radiator looks to me like the short version, which would make her an S-1.

Tom

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Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, February 19, 2016 5:55 PM

ACY

She's an Alco. RS's used AAR trucks, but these trucks are Blunt style, which means S-1 or S-2. The radiator looks to me like the short version, which would make her an S-1.

Tom

 

From the photo, hard to tell about the radiator and stack. The stack looked like an S2 or S4 to me, but upon looking at it again,  I am having second thoughts, tending to agree it is an S1. 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 19, 2016 6:16 PM

DSchmitt
 
ACY

She's an Alco. RS's used AAR trucks, but these trucks are Blunt style, which means S-1 or S-2. The radiator looks to me like the short version, which would make her an S-1.

Tom

 

 

 

From the photo, hard to tell about the radiator, but the stack looks like an S2 or S4 to me. I am not absolutly sure after looking at it again.

 

It is an S-2.  It has the exhaust stack of the S-2/S-4. The bell is not visible on top of the hood (the S-2s bell is located on the right hand or engineers side right behind the front or long hood side truck).  The trucks appear to be "Blunt trucks" (hard to tell).  The photo description says it was taken in 1950.  Alco did not start US production of the S-4 until August of that year (this is from wikipedia, so grain of salt here), making it unlikely that this is an S-4.  The photo is rather poor in quality so it is hard to tell.

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Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, February 19, 2016 6:28 PM

BMMECNYC

 

 
DSchmitt
 
ACY

She's an Alco. RS's used AAR trucks, but these trucks are Blunt style, which means S-1 or S-2. The radiator looks to me like the short version, which would make her an S-1.

Tom

 

 

 

From the photo, hard to tell about the radiator, but the stack looks like an S2 or S4 to me. I am not absolutly sure after looking at it again.

 

 

 

It is an S-2.  It has the exhaust stack of the S-2/S-4. The trucks appear to be "Blunt trucks" (hard to tell).  The photo description says it was taken in 1950.  Alco did not start US production of the S-4 until August of that year (this is from wikipedia, so grain of salt here), making it unlikely that this is an S-4.  The photo is rather poor in quality so it is hard to tell.

 

At first I thought the base of the stack looked like an S2/S4, but it is hard to tell.  The reason  I am now leaning toward S1 is the stack looks to be taller than the cab.  The top of the S2/S4 stack was about the same level as the top of the cab and larger in diameter than the S1/S3 stack.. 

If the number on the nose could be enhanced to be readable a check of an SP roster would verify which it is. 

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, February 19, 2016 6:29 PM

Alco S-2.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 19, 2016 6:30 PM

Updated my reply, Bell not is not visible (which apparently a location option on S-1), and the stack is offset.  The camera is ~5.5ft off the ground and 30ft+ away.  Also neither RR picture archives or RR fallen flags has a photo of a SP S-1.. they only owned 4 (1017-1020).  The third digit on the road number looks like a 7 or a 1, or a 2 on the cab...so about useless. 

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Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, February 19, 2016 7:39 PM

BMMECNYC
SP S-1.. they only owned 4 (1017-1020). 

I am having third thoughts:  I enhanced the photo as best I could.   The first two numbers look like they could be "13".  SP had S2's numbered 13xx, And the base of the stack does look like the one used on the turbocharged locos, so I am leaning again to it being an S2. 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by West Coast S on Friday, February 19, 2016 8:09 PM

SP replaced many of the stacks on its Alco switcher fleet with inhouse designs, caution is therefore advised before drawing any conclusions.

Dave

SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, February 19, 2016 9:42 PM

West Coast S

SP replaced many of the stacks on its Alco switcher fleet with inhouse designs, caution is therefore advised before drawing any conclusions.

 

  

Dave

 

Found a couple 1970's photos of S4's with rectlinear stacks (probably replacements).   The OP's photo is from the 1950's when steam still prevaled.  Most likely long before any stacks were replaced. 

 

The more I study the photo the more convinced I am that it is a S2 based on the appearance of the stack. base and I now think the apparent height is an illusian 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, February 19, 2016 9:53 PM

It's definitely an S-1 or S-2 because it clearly had Blunt trucks. It's not an S-3 or S-4 because they had AAR trucks. The stack looks taller and thinner than the stacks typically supplied on S-2's, so that gives an hint that it MIGHT be an S-1. The radiator also looks like the smaller one used on S-1's, so that is a further hint that it MIGHT be an S-1. If an SW1 was commonly used in the same service, that is another suggestion that it MIGHT be an S-1 because the horsepower rating of an S-1 was similar to that of an SW1.  The photo is not quite distinct enough for me to be sure. It is definitely not an S-3 or S-4. Definite identification probably isn't happening without some more info.  Maybe an SP expert can help.

Tom 

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Posted by SSW9389 on Saturday, February 20, 2016 12:51 AM

It looks like SP #1370 to me. It's an S-2. When you magnify the photo you can see the turbo bulge next to the cab.

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!

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