i've been collecting bobber cabooses because i think they'll fit better on my small layout. But I had thought bobber cabooses weren't that common. I just saw two photos of Reading bobber cabooses with number 90312 and 90400. If all bobbers are within this range, it suggests the Reading had at least 98 bobbers.
Also, when were bobber cabooses used instead of full-size cabooses?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
The P&R used a LOT of bobber cabooses, as did many of the eastern roads. They were not as common in the west, because most of those roads were newer and needed more room in the caboose to accomodate the crews on long runs. Eastern roads had shorter runs and there were more opportunities for lodging between runs.
The 1903 ORER showed cabooses between 90051 and 90378. The P&R had 2 major classes of boobers. The original cabooses had three windows and clerestory roof with no cupola. The newer cars were of the design in the picture. The P&R started getting USRA derivative design 8 wheel cabooses and began phasing out the bobbers over the next 3 decades. A few bobbers made it to WW2.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Update : 1905 ORER lists 436 NMa bobbers in the series 90001-91000 and 409 NMb bobbers in the series 91001-92000.
Four wheel cabeese were not unknown in the west. SP&S had 10 that they got from the NP in 1908. Two years later they were rebuilt into 8 wheel cabeese. And GN also had some in the olden days. They certainly didn't last very long.
Here's a shot of another on a western road:
Ed
The Rio Grande likewise converted many of their bobbers to two-truck arrangements as they were rebuilt. This was back when labor was cheap and the tax structure encouraged rebuilding older rolling stock circa 1900. I suspect this practice was quite common as one alternative to scrapping as the bobber became obsolete.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Dan
I suspect that frequently, the bobbers weren't actually rebuilt. The rebuilds I've seen looked as if they used practically nothing from the original--certainly not the trucks or underframe--maybe some of the siding and windows. I think it was a "tax related event", if ya get my drift.
At the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th, 4-wheel "bobbers" were dominant in the East. B&O probably had over 1100 or so 4-wheel cabooses by around 1909. PRR's standard cabin cars were Nc and Ne, and they probably numbered well over 1,000 cars in the early 1900's. RDG, D&H, WM, and many other roads also used them extensively. Interestingly, other roads such as NKP adopted 8-wheel designs early on, and had few 4-wheelers, if any.
A turning point came in 1913 when the State of Ohio passed a law requiring that all cabooses traveling through the State must have four axles and must be at least 24 feet long, including platforms, by 1919. The railroads responded by creating new designs such as B&O's I-1 class, or by enlarging old 4-wheelers, as the PRR did in converting Nc and Ne bobber cabin cars into 8-wheel N6b and N6a's. On the PRR, a few of the larger Nd's also got four axles, but most of the Nd's were transferred to other States where the law did not forbid them. Pennsylvania was one such State, and Nd 4-wheelers continued in mainline use on busy stretches of track well into the 1930's. I have heard that the standard PRR cabin car on the Middle Division mainline (Harrisburg to Altoona) was the 4-wheel Nd until around the beginning of WWII when large numbers of steel cabins were being built.
Many smaller roads continued to use 4-wheelers for many years in areas where they were legal, and many secondhand mainline 4-wheelers were bought second-hand. The Maryland & Pennsylvania, which ran through its namesake States, bought 4-wheel cabooses from PRR, P&LE, Kanawha & Michigan (an NYC subsidiary), and possible others. When the B&O acquired the Buffalo & Susquehanna in the early 1930's, they got some more 4-wheelers in the deal and kept them for use in Pennsylvania and New York.
By the 1950's, the 4-wheel cars were getting pretty rare. As far as I know, the only place where you can ride in one is the Strasburg Rail Road, which sometimes (I think rarely) runs its PRR Nd.
I'm not knowledgable about things like this, but I thought one reason the Reading used steel 8 wheeled cabooses is because they needed to be strong with a pusher behind a train of steel hopper cars.
did bobber cabooses have steel frames that allowed them to be pushed?
7j43k I suspect that frequently, the bobbers weren't actually rebuilt. The rebuilds I've seen looked as if they used practically nothing from the original--certainly not the trucks or underframe--maybe some of the siding and windows. I think it was a "tax related event", if ya get my drift. Ed
True, well known that was the case for some of the rebuilds. But it's typically not too relevant as far as modeling is concerned. Whether they took the markers off the old caboose and drove a new one under it and called it a rebuild for tax purposes, changed most of old wood out for new and kept the same metal castings, or built a new underframe and plopped the carbody on top of it, the rebuild date is significant as marking a distinct change in appearance.
Of ocurse, if one is modeling IRS paperwork, then maybe it's a bigger deal.
gregcdid bobber cabooses have steel frames that allowed them to be pushed?
Most didn't, as they were built before steel was used extensively in car building. A few of the last new builds might have. But your comment about accomodating pushers is relevant, as it was another factor that certainly helped speed retirement of bobbers on some lines.
Not 100% sure about this, but I think PRR's Nd cabin cars had steel frames, which would explain their longevity, and the fact that so many still exist.
If one wanted to model a PRR Nc, it could be done by shortening the body of the forthcoming Walthers offset cupola N6b (or any other N6a/b model) so that the resulting carbody has the cupola in the center. You would then have to find or cobble up an appropriate undercarriage. This is because many N6a's and N6b's were created by essentially cutting Ne's and Nc's apart, placing the two ends on a new, longer steel frame, and filling in the center space with new construction. Nc's had cupolas like the one on the Walthers cabin; Ne's had the wider cupola as used on N6a's.
In 1911, Minnesota passed a law that all cabooses had to be 24' long, and have at least two four-wheel trucks. The classic Missabe caboose (as modelled in HO by Walthers) was the result of two bobber cabooses being 'kitbashed' into one long caboose.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7681
I was going to pipe in about the state laws but you all beat me to it. The reason for outlawing the bobbers is for safety--both in danger while pushing against them in pusher service and rear-end collisions.
Even though they had springs, I still doubt they were a good ride.
I believe there is also a D&H bobber on display out there somewhere too. I'll bet there is at least one or two more big road hand-me-downs from defunct shortlines on display somewhere.
At least one bobber lasted quite late on the Deadwood branch of the CB&Q, because its light weight allowed more revenue tonnage to be moved. To explain that, the early-model 2-6-6-2 Mallets that ran on the branch were limited to 250 tons by grades and curves on the line.
The branch from Edgemont, SD, to Deadwood, SD, lives on as the George S. Mickelson Trail, 109 miles from the east end of the Edgemont wye to the old Mallet house in what used to be the Deadwood yard. (Mapquest still shows it as a railroad, 28 years after the rails were lifted!)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with four wheel brake vans)
Several bobbers exist in Pennsylvania. There's an ex-Ma & Pa car on display at the Lincoln Train Museum in Gettysburg; a PRR Nd at New Oxford, PA; an Nd at the Strasburg Rail Road in Strasburg; a Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain (ex PRR) Nd at the R. R. Museum of PA in Strasburg; and an Nd at a park just outside Ligonier, PA. I've heard that the Coudersport & Port Allegheny's ex-Buffalo & Susquehanna bobber might be preserved somewhere in northern Pennsylvania. The B&O Museum in Baltimore has an old B&O bobber, and I think the Cass Scenic RR might have one that originated on the Coal & Coke R.R. There's supposed to be a B&O K-1 bobber in private hands near Chicago, and another PRR Nd at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, IL. I understand there also might be an ex-Buffalo Rochester & Pittsburgh bobber somewhere in Texas. Anybody know about any others?
wabash2800 Even though they had springs, I still doubt they were a good ride.
They were called "bobbers" because they "bobbed" or 'bounced' along the track. (Like a fishing bobber, or a boxer who 'bobs and weaves'.)
They generally rode poorly, and were easier to derail than a car with two four-wheel trucks.
Does anyone have any info on the bobber caboose at the Red Caboose Motel? It's the one currently painted yellow. It came to the Red Caboose Motel around 1979 from the Carroll Park and Western Railroad in Bloomsburg. I've been trying to find info about it before it came to the Carroll Park and Western around 1960. Does any one know if it was a PRR caboose and wha the number of itmay have been? Any help would be greatly appriciated as I am working on a book about the Carroll Park and Western Railroad and am trying to include info on the railroad equipment that was there both before and after it's service at the CP&W
Thanks,Andrew
If you have a photo of the car at the Caboose Motel, it might help us to identify it.
In addition to the cars listed above, the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania has a four-wheeler that is reputed to have come from the Lehigh Valley; and the Age of Steam Roundhouse in Ohio has one that may have started life as a PRR Nd.
Tom
Hard to imagine but the Pacific Electric was a user of such cabooses up until its demise, built in the Torrance shops to their own design, a number of them were later modified with express doors for LCL service on lines that had abandoned passenger/express service.
Dave
Have to also remember that any caboose not capable being pushed against was when possible moved to the rear of the pushers tender To keep it from being crushed.
Here's a photo of the caboose back in the 1960s and of it today at the Red Caboose Motel in Strasburg. I know at one point at the Red Cabosoe Motel the caboose was painted with an LIRR scheme. Does anyone have any photos of it from earlier days at the motel?
The photos show that it's certainly a PRR class Nd. Since LIRR was closely affiliated with PRR, it may have been on the LIRR roster before going to the CP&W at Bloomsburg.
Short "bobber" cabeese were not always single-trucked:
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(Photo borrowed from the Sacramento Northern Online archive: http://www.wplives.org/sn/caboose.html )
This one operated in northern California, on the Oakland, Antioch & Eastern (later the Sacramento Northern.) They used short cabeese like this in order to fit more cars on the Ramon, a car ferry used to carry OA&E/SN trains across Suisun Bay on their way from Sacramento to Oakland. Two trucks handled better. I used a PRR "bobber" caboose to kitbash a model of SN 1614, it's not exact but works well enough for my purposes.
Bobbers were also common on western logging lines, where small size and light weight were higher priorities.