cuyamaSwitchlists and waybills are different things. If you are writing a switchlist program, it won't produce waybills, and vice-versa.
can you be more specific about the differences between switchlists and waybills, and why you think a single program couldn't do both (if you wanted).
not sure there's a need for waybills on a model railroad. Any program needs to conveniently handle actual switching mistakes and car being removed or added to the layout. User-friendly isn't powerful and I'm not a fan of GUIs and mice.
wondering if "error in car movement" occur on real railroad, and if so, how are the handled/corrected
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregcsound like i was looking for what you call a switch-list (i.e. waybill(?)) just as some modelers choose to build their own turnouts or structures, creating your own waybills program is an alternative to something off the shelf.
just as some modelers choose to build their own turnouts or structures, creating your own waybills program is an alternative to something off the shelf.
Switchlists and waybills are different things. If you are writing a switchlist program, it won't produce waybills, and vice-versa. The JMRI operations module would be a good thing to explore if you are interested in what is being done with operating software recently.
There are a couple of commercial programs to produce waybills (I like Shenware's Waybills) and several to produce switchlists (of varying utility). My personal frustration with switchlist programs is that none really seem to work very well in yards and any error in car movement anywhere on the layout propagates forward, creating cascading errors in subsequent sessions.
Card cards and waybills, by contrast, are self-correcting in my experience: any work done incorrectly or not complete at one session can be completed in the next session without affecting other cars or locations. And in the case of cars and paperwork that become separated, just send any unbilled cars and any errant paperwork to a defined location (the RIP track works), where a happy reunion takes place.
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If I may offer a different view.
As a brakeman the only waybills I seen was on the conductor's desk in the caboose. I used a switch list.
I didn't need to know what class a car was like H,XM,GS etc all I was concern with the car's initial and number.
Simple enough to follow:
Pattons Lumber Maysville,Ky
Setout: SP&S 562433 Pick Up: ACL 98765
William Mfg.Maysville Ky
Pick up: N/A Setout: C&O 54445
A switch list was easier to handle when swinging on and off moving cars or locomotives.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
jrbernier On a model railroad, what you are describing is a switch list - this provides the train crew where each car needs to be spotted. The popular car card/waybill system has a waybill attached to a car card. Some folks have combined the two into a single prototype waybill. Home computers have allowed the generation of 'one time' waybills & switch lists from a common data base. Of course, 'someone' has to update all of these records at the start/end of an operating session, and even during the session as cars are classified and change trains.
thanks Dave and Jim
sound like i was looking for what you call a switch-list (i.e. waybill(?)) And I really appreciate Dave's more complete discussion and the paper work involved in creating and moving complete trains.
The approach I took was to feed the previous switch-list into the program to determine the current car locations and then produce the next switch list. (There are other options to GUIs and pressing mouse buttons).
Dave's comments are now making me wonder of train-lists, moving cars from one yard to another.
Greg,
Back in the 50's, a 'waybill' was usually cut for each car/load. Multiple copies were generated and one of those copies followed the freight car on it's journey from shipper to consignee. The conductor had a large packet/sleeve with the waybills.
As early data processing evolved in the 50's, train list were generated by tabulator machines, and this early 'switch list' was used by the conductor The conductor still had a copy of the waybill with him/here.
Current operation have basically gotten rid if the paper waybill, and a computer generated train consist is used by the conductor.
In the day of the paper waybill, there were lots of copies generated. They traveled with a train conductor, were sent to the shipper, consignee, and many copies went to the car routing & billing departments of all railroad involved in the move. Railroad had huge staffs of clerks to process all of this paperwork.
On a model railroad, what you are describing is a switch list - this provides the train crew where each car needs to be spotted. The popular car card/waybill system has a waybill attached to a car card. Some folks have combined the two into a single prototype waybill. Home computers have allowed the generation of 'one time' waybills & switch lists from a common data base. Of course, 'someone' has to update all of these records at the start/end of an operating session, and even during the session as cars are classified and change trains.
JMRI has developed 'Operations' as one of the 'apps' and it will merge available empties with car requests, track the car across the layout, and generate train lists for the crews.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
gregc i'm familiar with the cards used during model railroad operations to determine (non-passenger) car movements.
i'm familiar with the cards used during model railroad operations to determine (non-passenger) car movements.
The vast majority of model railroads I have operated on use what are called car cards and waybills (CC&WB). It uses a "car card" that is a piece of card stock with the car initial and number (plus other info) that is folded to form a pocket. Then the "waybill" is added that has routing instructions on it. It does not appear you are using that method because you said:
On the club railroad i help operate, new cards are printed out each op-session.
With CC&WB you print the paperwork once and then just move the waybills portion around, recycling the paperwork. That is the beauty of CC&WB, the paperwork only needs to be reprinted when it physicaly wears out.
My questions is do real railroad use separate slips of paper to route cars or are these car movements consolidated onto single sheets for trains moving cars between yards and the final "peddler" freight that actually drops it off or picks it up on the loading dock?
Yes and no. Very era dependent. Classic answer. The customer contacts the railroad and requests an empty car for loading. The railroad spots the empty. The customer provides a "bill of lading" for the shipment. The railroad takes info from the bill of lading and creates a "waybill". The waybill is used to make a "switch list" (modern term work order) that tells the crew what cars to pick up where and where they go. The crew picks up the cars and adds them to a list of cars on the train, the "consist" or "wheel report".
When the train gets to the yard a clerk writes down a list of the cars in the order they are in the train, the "track list". The clerk then adds destination information taken from the waybills (which travel with the cars.) The track list is used to make a 'switch list" that the yard crews use to classify the cars. That generates new track lists and switch lists every time the car is shuffled around in the yard. In addition the clerks might staple routing cards to the sides of the cards to indicate how the car should be blocked outbound or put chalk marks on the cars to indicate how it should be switched.
The car ends up in an outbound train where a list of the cars in the train is generated, the consist or wheel report, and the conductor is given the waybills. As cars are picked up or set out enroute they are added or dropped from the consist or wheel report. Waybills are picked up or left with the cars.
The train arrives in a yard and they whole yard list process is repeated.
Ultimately the car ends up on a local that spots the car at industry. The local will have a switch list that tells the crew which cars go to which industry. The industry might have standing spotting instructions (always put inbound loads on track 2) or might call the railroad with spotting instructions (put ABCD12345 at door 5) or the industry might give the spotting instructions to the crew when they get to the industry or the car might go to a holding track to be spotted later.
The crew reports what they did with the car and the records are updated .
Every day the agent would keep track of what cars were on which track, so there were lists for that.
At some point the industry would call the railroad and report the car was empty. The agent would put the empty car on the switch list/work order for the crew to pick up and would create an "empty car waybill" to route the car back "home".
I can imagine that as customers "call" to arrange for drop-offs or pick-ups, that a routing slip is created, but it seems that these slips could easily get misplaced as the cars are consolidated onto trains, re-routed between yards and finally delivered.
No the railroad has extensive redundancy of paperwork and the conductor's job is to keep track of the paperwork on the cars. That's why there is an office for the conductor in the caboose.
However, I can understand that the way things can be done today with computers would be different than in the days without computers. Today, i can easily imagine that consolidated waybills can be printed for each train, if even needed, and nothing can be misplaced.
Actually its pretty much exactly the same thing, its just that a lot of the paperwork is virtual (bills of lading and waybills) and the lists are generated by computers instead of handwritten by clerks. But all the pieces of paper are still there in some form, except for the tags stapled to the sides of the cars.
But i wonder if it would be just as prototypical if a single waybill sheet were printed and handed to an engine/conductor to switch cars.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
i'm familiar with the cards used during model railroad operations to determine (non-passenger) car movements. My questions is do real railroad use separate slips of paper to route cars or are these car movements consolidated onto single sheets for trains moving cars between yards and the final "peddler" freight that actually drops it off or picks it up on the loading dock?
On the club railroad i help operate, new cards are printed out each op-session. But i wonder if it would be just as prototypical if a single waybill sheet were printed and handed to an engine/conductor to switch cars.