I've just seen an advertisement for a PRR video which states
the famed I Class Decapod (600 2-10-0s, the largest fleet in the world)
and I thought surely not, what about all those Kreigsloks and Russian locos. My research shows that 7000 kreigsloks were built and many are still around all over Eastern Europe on heritage lines and in store. I saw about a dozen on a recent trip to the Black Forest.
I found that the Russian Type L 2-10-0 had 4200 locos.
I also found that the Baldwin Loco and Alco built 1622 2-10-0s for Russia
So does anyone know what is the largest 2-10-0 fleet in the world?
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You have to consider that, for many in the North American railfan community, the world ends at the surf line. The Atlantic and Pacific Oceans might as well be outer space, and anything on the other side of either is on a different planet.
Like the OP, I'd put my money on the German 2-10-0 fleet. OTOH, my prototype isn't even in the stadium, never mind the running. As far as I know, Japan never had a 2-10-0. The only 10-coupled locos I can find a record of are one class of seriously ugly 0-10-0Ts and the five 2-10-4Ts of the E10 class. (I suppose that, by stretching a point to its elastic limit, the E10 could be called a tenderless 2-10-0...)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
GraffenThe largest fleet in the world, is to be read in a US context..... As in Baseball World champions.... It's easier when the world is confined to your own piece of the world..... :-) (Highly satirical!!!)
It kind of reminds me of last years Stanley Cup Playoffs. Boston faced Vancouver in the final round. The chants in Boston Garden were USA...USA...USA. I wonder what the 18 Canadians and 5 Europeons on the Boston team thought of that.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Maybe they didn't mean quantity. It could stand for the largest 2-10-0.
BTW there was only 598 built. 475 by Baldwin the rest by Juniata/ Altoona. Two years on the test plant before the second was built. 90,000 lb of starting tractive effort.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Well, if it´s the largest fleet, then it is the Deutsche Reichsbahn class 52 Decapod. Over 7,000 were built and operated by war-time Deutsche Reichsbahn, and production continued at the end of WW II.
Interesting fact is, that this loco was supposed to have a service life of only a handful of years due to its simple design and cheap materials, yet it saw regular service way over 5 decades!
More info on this locomotive can be found here:
DRB class 52
Sir Madog Interesting fact is, that this loco (DRB class 52) was supposed to have a service life of only a handful of years due to its simple design and cheap materials, yet it saw regular service way over 5 decades!
Interesting fact is, that this loco (DRB class 52) was supposed to have a service life of only a handful of years due to its simple design and cheap materials, yet it saw regular service way over 5 decades!
As the transition era wound down, an awful lot of superpower steam locos, with all kinds of fancy gadgets to, supposedly, increase efficiency, were dragged off to the scrappers by USRA Mikes.
KISS lives!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with uncomplicated locomotives)
tomikawaTT As the transition era wound down, an awful lot of superpower steam locos, with all kinds of fancy gadgets to, supposedly, increase efficiency, were dragged off to the scrappers by USRA Mikes. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with uncomplicated locomotives)
And when those steam locomotives reached Northwestern Steel & Wire in Sterling Illinois they were shoved to their final destruction by a fleet of even older CB&Q 2-6-2s. When the Grand Trunk got rid of their steam an entire fleet of GTW 0-8-0s was put aside by Northwestern Steel and Wire, replaced the 2-6-2s in the 1960s, and due to a stubborn old owner of the plant, those 0-8-0s remained plant power until the 1980s. It is highly likely that some wrecked or even retired second generation diesels got shoved to their final destruction by a former GTW 0-8-0. The day I was there a total of four 0-8-0s were in steam. The photography pass that the main office issued, however, still showed a photo of a 2-6-2.
Dave Nelson
BATMAN Graffen: The largest fleet in the world, is to be read in a US context..... As in Baseball World champions.... It's easier when the world is confined to your own piece of the world..... :-) (Highly satirical!!!) It kind of reminds me of last years Stanley Cup Playoffs. Boston faced Vancouver in the final round. The chants in Boston Garden were USA...USA...USA. I wonder what the 18 Canadians and 5 Europeons on the Boston team thought of that. Brent
Graffen: The largest fleet in the world, is to be read in a US context..... As in Baseball World champions.... It's easier when the world is confined to your own piece of the world..... :-) (Highly satirical!!!)
They were thinking "If you can't beat em. join em"
or
"Better to be a winning Canadian Boston player than to be a losing Canadian Vancouver Player"
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Hennsallvanian Kreigsloks
Kreigsloks
Minor nitpick. "War" is "krieg" in German, not "kreig". Another useful word for discussing German railroading is BR ("Baureihe" - "build series", i.e. class).
The Germans build (between 1926 and 1949) some between 1700 and 1900 BR44 three cylinder 2-10-0 locos, and around 3100 lightweight BR50s. During WW2, they also built simplified war service classes BR52 (lightweight, 6161 built) and BR42 (medium weight, 844 built). In comparison, the PRR had 598 Decapods. with the last delivered in the early 1920s, if I remember correctly.
So I guess it depends on when the claim "largest fleet in the world" was made. If it was in the 1920s, the PRR quite possibly had the largest fleet of 2-10-0s in the world at that time.
If it was made looking back from 2012, the Germans built a lot more 2-10-0s, so the claim ought to have been "the biggest fleet in the US". Not sure how many 2-10-0 the Russians bought and built.
Smile, Stein
It should be pointed out in this discussion that the Decapod was not a very popular wheel arrangement in North America with only about 900 units ever used here.
That means the PRR was responsable for nearly 2/3rds of all the Decapods in North America.
200 of the the others should have went to Russia. And except for the PRR, most North American railroads considered the wheel arrangement obsolete by the early 30's.
Putting aside the PRR locos, and the "Russians" that stayed here, leaves only about 100 locos spread across this vast continent.
Sheldon
To Stein
Sorry about the typing error. I know how to spell it, I was listening to Greig at the time!
Joking apart I'm sure you've solved the mystery
When the locos were produced the Pennsy could legitimately claim to have the largest fleet in the world, this no doubt got in various books and was taken as the definitive . The size of the German fleet was only apparent after the War (or Krieg!) and so only post war books would reflect the complete history
Thanks to stein t for clearing up the story
Between 1917 and 1924, the Prussian State Railway (merged into Deutsche Reichsbahn in 1920) built close to 1,500 class G 12 Decapods. Wouldn´t that make the largest fleet at that time?
Prussian G 12
Hennsallvanian To Stein Sorry about the typing error. I know how to spell it, I was listening to Greig at the time! Joking apart I'm sure you've solved the mystery When the locos were produced the Pennsy could legitimately claim to have the largest fleet in the world, this no doubt got in various books and was taken as the definitive . The size of the German fleet was only apparent after the War (or Krieg!) and so only post war books would reflect the complete history Thanks to stein t for clearing up the story
No, not even at the time...
The Russian railways had more American built 2-10-0s than the Pennsylvania at the time they built the I-1 class locomotives.
Everyone knows that about 200 were left in the USA after the Bolshevik Revolution.
But there were, in service in Russia:
106 YeS class from Schenectady
242 Yef class from Baldwin
50 YeK class from CLC Kingston
554 YeL class from Alco and Baldwin
Total 952
So the PRR wouldn't have ever been further up than third with the Russian Ye and German G 12 ahead, and possibly others...
M636C
dknelson tomikawaTT: As the transition era wound down, an awful lot of superpower steam locos, with all kinds of fancy gadgets to, supposedly, increase efficiency, were dragged off to the scrappers by USRA Mikes. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with uncomplicated locomotives) And when those steam locomotives reached Northwestern Steel & Wire in Sterling Illinois they were shoved to their final destruction by a fleet of even older CB&Q 2-6-2s. When the Grand Trunk got rid of their steam an entire fleet of GTW 0-8-0s was put aside by Northwestern Steel and Wire, replaced the 2-6-2s in the 1960s, and due to a stubborn old owner of the plant, those 0-8-0s remained plant power until the 1980s.
tomikawaTT: As the transition era wound down, an awful lot of superpower steam locos, with all kinds of fancy gadgets to, supposedly, increase efficiency, were dragged off to the scrappers by USRA Mikes. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with uncomplicated locomotives)
And when those steam locomotives reached Northwestern Steel & Wire in Sterling Illinois they were shoved to their final destruction by a fleet of even older CB&Q 2-6-2s. When the Grand Trunk got rid of their steam an entire fleet of GTW 0-8-0s was put aside by Northwestern Steel and Wire, replaced the 2-6-2s in the 1960s, and due to a stubborn old owner of the plant, those 0-8-0s remained plant power until the 1980s.
Texas Zepher dknelson: tomikawaTT: As the transition era wound down, an awful lot of superpower steam locos, with all kinds of fancy gadgets to, supposedly, increase efficiency, were dragged off to the scrappers by USRA Mikes. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with uncomplicated locomotives) And when those steam locomotives reached Northwestern Steel & Wire in Sterling Illinois they were shoved to their final destruction by a fleet of even older CB&Q 2-6-2s. When the Grand Trunk got rid of their steam an entire fleet of GTW 0-8-0s was put aside by Northwestern Steel and Wire, replaced the 2-6-2s in the 1960s, and due to a stubborn old owner of the plant, those 0-8-0s remained plant power until the 1980s. That is interesting. Since we were talking about Decopods I was going to point out that Pennsy #90 sold to the Great Western was in use until 1968. Then it was transfered to the Strasburg Railroad where it is still in use today.
dknelson: tomikawaTT: As the transition era wound down, an awful lot of superpower steam locos, with all kinds of fancy gadgets to, supposedly, increase efficiency, were dragged off to the scrappers by USRA Mikes. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with uncomplicated locomotives) And when those steam locomotives reached Northwestern Steel & Wire in Sterling Illinois they were shoved to their final destruction by a fleet of even older CB&Q 2-6-2s. When the Grand Trunk got rid of their steam an entire fleet of GTW 0-8-0s was put aside by Northwestern Steel and Wire, replaced the 2-6-2s in the 1960s, and due to a stubborn old owner of the plant, those 0-8-0s remained plant power until the 1980s.
Great Western #90 was never a Pennsy Locomotive. It is one of only two locos Baldwin built to that specific design. It was built in 1924 and delivered to the Great Western Railway when new.
In the 1940´s, Deutsche Reichsbahn owned the following Decapods:
Class 42 - 1,061
Class 43 - 35
Class 44 - 1,989
Class 50 - 3,164
Class 52 - 6,161
Class 58 - 1,478
Total - 13,888
I be this figures makes up the largest fleet of Decapods in the world.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Texas Zepher: That is interesting. Since we were talking about Decopods I was going to point out that Pennsy #90 sold to the Great Western was in use until 1968. Then it was transfered to the Strasburg Railroad where it is still in use today. Great Western #90 was never a Pennsy Locomotive. It is one of only two locos Baldwin built to that specific design. It was built in 1924 and delivered to the Great Western Railway when new.
Texas Zepher: That is interesting. Since we were talking about Decopods I was going to point out that Pennsy #90 sold to the Great Western was in use until 1968. Then it was transfered to the Strasburg Railroad where it is still in use today.
That is interesting. Since we were talking about Decopods I was going to point out that Pennsy #90 sold to the Great Western was in use until 1968. Then it was transfered to the Strasburg Railroad where it is still in use today.