Heavy Rail Electric Operations

[Anonymous]

After reading the latest issue of my, i have decided that my second layout will be a heavy rail electirc operation. Want i want to know is, where can i get prototype images of urban Heavy rail electric operations, and prototype information on the same.

Also, what heavy rail electrics have been made as plastic models (NOT the GG1 because that screams PRR too much) as i dont want to spend hundreds per locomotive on brass models.

If only small locomotives would be needed for the operations, what sort of heavy rail electric switchers could i scratchbuild?

How difficult would it be to custom make some overhead towers for this line?

Sorry for the amount of questions, but i am trying to get as much information as possible before i start building the layout.

[Anonymous]

Hi Ross,

For all things electric (but with an Interurban/Radial Railway feel) check out the work of Interurban (Chris) at www.the-gauge.com . His latest project was scratch-bashing a boxcab electric out of a powered B-unit to haul freight on his radial line.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

whats a radial railway? Is that like an electrified belt railway?

[orsonroy]

Only two heavy electrics have been made in HO plastic, the GG-1 and the E33. There are a few modern electric passenger engines as well, like the HHP-8 and the Acela. Check engine listings for BLI, IHC, Bachmann and Atlas.

If you're looking to freelance, why not take the guts from a GG-1 and freelance your own heavy electric engines? It wouldn't be too hard to splice two F-unit shells together to create a baby Uncle Joe, and scratchbuilding an older engine with a boxy body wouldn't be that hard either.

As for caternary towers, check the Trains.com magazine index. Some time in the 1980s, Craftsman ran an article by someone who was modeling the North Shore, and scratchbuilt towers out of clear lexan rod. He painted the lattice framework onto the clear rod, and the only way you could tell they were solid was when light reflected off the unpainted portions. It was very effective modeling, and worth a look.

If you're looking for a small steeplecab electric, check Cannonball Car Shops. They've got a resin shell that's specifically designed to be added to a Bachmann 44-tonner. AMB makes a laser cut detail set for this shell.

[Anonymous]

There's some info on interurban freight operations in the July 2004 MR - Tony Koester's article on page 110-111. Freight motors look like they'd be fairly easy to scratchbuild using a SPUD as the power source and a plastic or brass bodyshell. The major problem would be the trolley poles and wiring - it's apparently quite tricky to make it work reliably.

As far as heavy rail electrics are concerned, the only models I can think of (apart from a GG1) are the Bachmann E33 and the Atlas Amtrak AEM7. I know Bachmann offered an older 6-axle Amtrak electric loco in N, not sure of the type or if it was available in HO though. I considered buying one a while ago, but was put off by the bright "chrome" paint finish - I would have had to repaint it and would have no idea where to find decals!

[Anonymous]

I was going for more "boxcab" type electrics, could i bash one from an MDC boxcab diesel-electric.
As for getting power from the overhead, i am not that fussed, if i have to use track power rather than attempting to build a working overhead power source.

[orsonroy]

Don't see why not. The Illinois Terminal had a series of small boxcab-like freight motors that were similar in dimension to the Roundhouse boxcab (but didn't look like them!)

[Anonymous]

Oh thats good then, already have a powered boxcab sitting unsed and unloved on my line. Did heavy electrics run on city streets or would they use reserved trackage in the centre of the street?

[orsonroy]

South Shore heavy electrics moved down the center of many streets in Indiana. IT track was mostly rural ROW, so there was only limited street running, and (mostly) only on "trolley loops" through the centers of big towns. Most of their electric freight motors stayed away from the restrictive trackage and tight curves of the IT's urban areas. What little freight moved on the North Shore moved along both street trackage and dedicated ROW.

[Anonymous]

oh good, like the look of reserved trackage, means i get to do grass covered track style!
Now just need to find a trackplan i can use. ;-/

[Anonymous]

You say there are people who model traction without live over head??!!
Gasp,, Gasp Gasp.[:D]

Hope you do it right ross now you have the plans.
Cheers.
Chris.[:p]

[Anonymous]

Hi Chris,

Interesting to see you over here...!

Ross - in case you haven't found a definition, a "radial" railway is the Canadian (but apparently not British - or you would've known) term for what is commonly referred to as Interurban railways. The term "radial" refers to them radiating out of a roughly central point. There used to be radial railways for instance that went west, north, and east out of Toronto, Ontario (Canada) into the surrounding towns. (South is the lake... [;)])

As far as I know, they weren't necessarily electric, although many were. They sometimes used oil-electric "doodlebug" type cars.

Andrew

[dknelson]

If you are thinking of heavy electrics ... do not overlook some of the locomotives of European or Japanese prototypes, particularly the older boxcab types. If you can overlook some obviously different trucks, boxcabs of the 1920s to 1950s vintage had a rather generic look so that a Japanese boxcab looks rather like what the Virginian or Milwaukee Road or PRR used. A bit of redetailing and painting and a very close approximation can result
Dave Nelson
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

yes i had looked at them but i dont really want to pay fourty odd pounds (normally a fair bit more too) for a locomotive that i will be redetaling and repainting, so most of the fleet will probably end up being based around MDC boxcabs and Intermountain F7 shells on Athearn switcher chassis.

[nfmisso]

Take a look at:

http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/

click on INTERURBAN about halfway down on the left.

[Anonymous]

The BC Rail (ex-British Columbia Railway) operates heavy electrics. They had GM Diesel (Canada) build them seven GF6C locomotives. These 6,000 hp units haul coal on BC Rail's Tumbler Ridge Subdivision.

There's an article about GF6Cs in the April 1995 MR.

[Jetrock]

Your best bet is to keep an eye on eBay for freight motors--brass electrics can vary widely in price, but I have purchased Baldwin-Westinghouse steeplecabs for around $130 and saw one for sale in Chicago for $100 or so this month.

I'm a fan of the Sacramento Northern, which ran the lighter end of heavy electric freight (GE and Baldwin-Westinghouse steeplecabs) as well as some homebrewed box motors, after giving up the passenger business in 1941. They included private trackage, in-street tracks for industrial belt lines, third-rail, trolley wire and catenary power, and, after 1946, slowly converted over to diesel power but ran some electric until as late as 1964.

I am told that pantographs are more reliable and simpler to deal with than trolley poles, but you still have to hang that darn trolley wire to make it look right--and if you're going to hang it, you might as well power it!

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by YNCS

The BC Rail (ex-British Columbia Railway) operates heavy electrics. They had GM Diesel (Canada) build them seven GF6C locomotives. These 6,000 hp units haul coal on BC Rail's Tumbler Ridge Subdivision.

There's an article about GF6Cs in the April 1995 MR.

Sad to say, the Tumbler Ridge sub shut down last September due to closure of the coal mine. The electric locomotives were replaced by diesels in 2000. You can find their history and a photo at www.trainscan.com/hist/tmbl/

[Anonymous]

yes wil be hanging it and evenutally using it as a power source (DCC). Ive started work on the fleet at the moment for the interurban operations but so far i am having trouble locating any decent boxmotors (dont like steeplecabs, too modern for my purposes!) so the freight fleet has stalled and i dont want to pay over the odds for brass engine becuase then i would be frightened to customise them!

MRR warehouse wasnt that helpful! they had sold out of most of the stock (although the very complicated hopper kits looked very appealing!)

[arbfbe]

There is always the option of scratchbuilding some boxcabs for your lines. The trucks used on Alco RS diesels are not too uncommon for an electric built in the 1930s on. You could start with an ATLAS RS3 chassis and just build a new body for the unit. The hard part would be embossing all of the rivets common to boxcab units and making the radius where the roof meet the side. There have been articles in MR over time about scratchbuilding steam engine tenders in brass and styrene that would show you how it is done. If you plan on enough of them brass etching would be the best choice. There are places that do these things commercially or you can do it at home. A master for resin casting could work as well. The Butte Anaconda & Pacific had two electrics built with roadswitcher bodies in the late 1950s. They ran alongside the boxcabs until diesels took over. The Fallen Flags site has photos of the BA&P electrics.

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

. . . . The Butte Anaconda & Pacific had two electrics built with roadswitcher bodies in the late 1950s. They ran alongside the boxcabs until diesels took over. The Fallen Flags site has photos of the BA&P electrics.

Ross,
You might want to find out if the NMRA's Kalmbach Memorial Library:
http://www.nmra.org/library/
can provide you with a photocopy of this article from the Index of Magazines:
"Engineering an old time diesel," Traction & Models, May 1974, page 23 Converting to a BA&P box cab electric (emphasis mine) ( BA&P, BOXCAB, DIESEL, ELECTRIC, KITBASH, "MALLORY, JOHN", MDC, CONSTRUCTION, ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, TAM )
Haven't read it, but, from the title, it sure appears to be appropriate.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[DSchmitt]

The book WIRED FOR SUCCESS about the BA&P is available from Amazon .com

[dknelson]

Somebody --- I forget who - makes or made a plastic steeple cab shell to fit over the Bachmann GE 44 tonner.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

If you like steeplecabs, I have a link on my old computer (I'll have to fire it up and retrieve the bookmarks) for a guy that makes steeplecab shells to fit a Bachmann 44-tonner. Lots of small electric lines used the 40-ton through 80-ton electrics. The CNS&M also had a battery-powered locomotive for non-electrified sidings (used trolley otherwise).

Immediate prototypes coming to mind are:
Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee (www.northshoreline.com) and
Illinois Terminal (see irm.org for photos of #1565, a class C 16-wheel electric loco) Drawings of this loco are in the Traction Guidebook.

The North Shore (CNS&M) acquired 2 of Oregon Electric's home-built locomotives around 1948. Drawings of "the alligator" are available in CERA books, but the otehr I've not been able to find any. These both have been done in brass, but I'm planning on doing them up in plastic then making casts. I'm trying to devise a power truck for them that's on a 7'6" wheelbase and doesn't cost $89 like a SPUD. I'd like to do this using Athearn gears. I built a prototype truck in styrene, but it's slightly warped and doesn't work reliably. I'll have to make it from brass, then cast it, or just build more carefully next time.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy


As for caternary towers, check the Trains.com magazine index. Some time in the 1980s, Craftsman ran an article by someone who was modeling the North Shore, and scratchbuilt towers out of clear lexan rod. He painted the lattice framework onto the clear rod, and the only way you could tell they were solid was when light reflected off the unpainted portions. It was very effective modeling, and worth a look.

That would be Eric Bronsky. Another outfit came out with brass catenary towers, but they were quite expensive (for the amount of metal) and fragile. They were discussed on northshoreline.com a few months back, but those messages have probably rolled off the board by now (it's been discovered by spammers).

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry for this late reply, just joined tonight! I kitbashed a coulpe of boxcabs from Bachman 44 tonners and the body from an MDC boxcab. The boxcab body fits right on the GE shell, after you cut down or remove the cab and sides. And there is room inside to add a little extra weight.

[Anonymous]

A good way to come up with a generic heavy electric is to use the GG1 running gear and build a new body by splicing together multiple ATSF caboose bodies. You need to put the air reservoirs on the roof to make it look right, but you end up with a locomotive that looks very much like the early Baldwin - Westinghouse electrics as run by the New Haven, the Boston & Maine, and the Milwaukee Road.

If you do the same but first cut the chassis short to remove the GG1 pilot trucks you end up with a locomotive that resembles the NYC R2, some of which became the South Shore's 700 class.

[BigRusty]

Visit the NHRHTA website and look at the list of books for sale re the NY, NH & H RR. They offer a wealth of the information you need .

Also catenary towers as used on the NH and PRR are availble built up or in kits from Model Memories e-mail [e-mail].

Also the PRR has a wealth of books written about it.

Rail Works is offering a brass NH RR EP-2 box cab that was a workhorse pulling local passenger trains NY to New Haven in the electrified west end.

[johncolley]

Check out the latest issue of Trains Magazine for a really neat article with pics on the Walla Walla Valley rr in Washington to Oregon. It was originally electric.

[dinwitty]

when building any layout, think about your purpose for it, what industries may be involved, interchange possible with another line as a source of traffic, to make operation fun, whatever you model.

You can just about assume you can do anything you want, run on streets, POW, however it suits since the prototype did it anyways, it sounds like your going to freelance a line.

http://ihphobby.tripod.com/intropage2.html

check out whats coming here if your going to try some passenger operating IE cummuter city style.

The MDC boxcab is your best bet for a freelance electric.
Just add pantagraphs..no one else will look...

basic rule always from the late Vane Jones...Scrounge Rule!!