I know that typically, model yards and engine facilities are modeled together, that is near each other. But was this the way it was always done in the real world? Seems to me there might have been quite a few yards that did not have full engine facilities near them and the larger facilities may have been several miles from the yards.
The reason for my asking is the space where my city yard is at doesn't have enough room for more than a single stall engine house and a short supply track. I have a need to be able to turn engines, and I have space for larger engine facilities with a turntable about six feet away, which would be a couple of miles in our model world.
Can anyone share any information they may have on this subject?
TIA
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Hi TIA, I'm not sure this is what your looking for but on the SP Modoc Line train coming from Klamath Fall OR cut across California's Northeast corner meeting the SP Overland Line at Fernely NV. After dropping the train power ran light, or with any cars for Reno vicinty, thirty miles west to Sparks for servicing. For Oregon bound trains the process was reversed.
Hope this helps, Rob
There were many instances of a yard being somewhat removed from an engine facility, such as on the Lehiigh Valley at Hazleton, PA, where the roundhouse was actually located at Ashmore, some couple of miles away.
Most yards tended to be near the engine servicing facilities associated with them, but significant variations did, and do exist.
On Southern Pacific, for example, the "freight" roundhouse and engine facility was at Taylor Yard in Los Angeles, while the "passenger" facilities were placed at Alhambra Street, much closer to Union Station.
Western Pacific's roundhouse in Oakland was at the far east end of their yard, removed somewhat from the yard office and main yard by a mile or so, but still easily accessible.
You can do what you have to do. Years ago the PRR had a small yard at Anderson with a water tank, freight house and icing facillity. Two and a half or three miles away was the coaling tower in another small yard.
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
At least in the steam era, Northern Pacific had their ore yard and ore dock in Allouez (Superior) Wisconsin, but the engines were maintained and serviced across the harbor at Rice's Point Yard in Duluth Minnesota. A crew called to run a train of empty ore cars from Allouez to the Cuyuna Range would report to work in Duluth to pick up their locomotive, then go across the swing bridge to the Wisconsin side to pick up their train of cars. They then would head south and then west to swing around the harbor and make the run to Crosby-Ironton.
I know there was at least one water tank in Allouez and may have been some coaling facilities but for everything else even switch engines working the ore yard had to go back and forth to/from Duluth every day.
Recollections of Riding the Cuyuna Iron Range Ore Service 1949-1951
The Norfolk Southern ex Southern Railway Gest St. yard in Cincinnati, Ohio. The yard is in Cincy,fueling,etc. done at Ludlow,Ky. across the river.
A scale mile in HO gauge is about 60 feet (5280/87=60.68) therefore 6 feet would be only about a tenth of a mile, not 3 miles. Not very far in scale terms. That is about 7 pullman cars.
More then a few miles apart - once the Reading closed down the Green Street engine terminal in Philadelphia, some of the passenger power based out of there got switched to be based out of Saucon, in Bethlehem. Not sure what the straight line distance is along the Bethlehem Branch, but to drive it today it's 50 miles. That's probably an extreme example, but I'm sure there are even more examples than the ones listed here. I'd say having a big distnace was probably not the desired way of doing things, but if it meant the difference between having a terminal in a lucrative area and just bypassing service altogether, I'm sure there was little hesitation on moving the servicing facilities some distance away.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
BigRusty A scale mile in HO gauge is about 60 feet (5280/87=60.68) therefore 6 feet would be only about a tenth of a mile, not 3 miles. Not very far in scale terms. That is about 7 pullman cars.
I guess I should have said that that I have room about six feet or a couple of smiles away.
And a big Thank You to all that have answered my question.
Quite common not to have engine facilities in a yard area. The logic is this, a "yard" of the type I am assuming you are thinking about as such a place to make and break trains, is a crowded, busy place. It's purpose is to make up trains in the shortest amount of time possible. An engine facility, of the type I am assuming you are thinking about as in a place to repair and test locos, cars and other equipment, is a crowded busy place. Both a "yard" and an "engine facility" need space in which to do their respective crafts. It gets real crowded, real quick when you need to test a loco and somebody is making up a train on your test track, conversely, if you are a conductor making up a train the last thing you need is a broke down loco clogging your track.
Engine facilities have a lot of broken down junk cluttering the tracks. Both the Wilmington and New Haven Amtrak shops are choked with equipment in varying states of disrepair. I fail to see how any useful conducting of trains can happen there. Other places, such as the NS Lamberts Point yard, have only minimal maintenance facility, but tons and tons of train making trackage. The NS engine shops are in Roanoake and Juniata (as well as others), that is where a good deal of rework and heavy repair takes place.
So yes, engine facilities and yards are not always together in the same physical location. Most yards have some sort of maintenance for emergency repairs, but anything major can be towed to the engine shop away from the "money maker" yard.
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
On the Houston Belt and Terminal in Houston, Texas, ca. 1950-1975, the passenger terminal was on the edge of downtown, about a mile east of the cneter of town (Main Street). What is left of the station building has been made a part of Minute Maid baseball stadium.
About 2 miles east was the Milby Street engine terminal (in the shadow of the massive Maxwell House coffee plant). Some kind of engine facility is still there, but I am not sure who uses it.
Two miles southeast is New South Yard, the major HB&T yard facility for the south side of Houston.
So separating the yard and engine maintenance functions a bit would be fine to resemble this particular prototype. I would want them close enough to look like they are still in the same town. But that is just to fit my own picture of rail operations.
Vernon Smith in "One Man's Locomotives" talks about how the ore mining co. he worked for had several two-stall enginehouses spread out around the area in MN where their mining operations were, but only had one main coal / water / servicing area which was centrally located near the mines. So when he was a fireman he would come in in the morning and start a fire in the 0-6-0 he was going to work on that day, using a bag of coal while putting water in the tank with a garden hose. He'd get just enough fuel and water to take the engine to the engine facilities to get a full load of coal and water for the day's mine runs.
I hired out on the old Big Four, or New York Central in 1967. I worked at Brooklyn yard near E.St Louis for a few years up to and after the Penn Central merger. There were no engine or caboose servicing facilities at Brooklyn. They were at Lower Yard, about a mile or so South of the yard at Brooklyn. All crews, yard and road, went on and off duty at Lower Yard. At that time we were running 3 eastbound trains a day out of Brooklyn. One per shift. Yard crews would usually bring a clean and serviced caboose out with them when they came to work at Brooklyn for the eastbound train they would be making up. Road crews would bring the power out and get on their train when it was made up with the conductor and rear man coming out via carry all or taxi cab. All interchange traffic except for the L&N and A&S was received at Brooklyn and classified there for movement east. That yard was only 5 tracks wide and about 100 car lengths long. It was sandwiched in between the Wabash on the east and the GM&O on the west so there was never any room for service facilities. There may have been a water plug for steam power but that would have been before my time. Many railroads had more than one yard in major metropolitan areas and not every yard had it's own engine or caboose servicing facilities. Outlying points were, of course, a different matter with the servicing facilities near the yard. From a modeler's perspective, it would be perfectly appropriate to stash your locomotives and cabeese at a remote staging location and bring them into play as needed.
There is nothing wrong with having the yard and engine facilities separated.
The risk is the size of the model railroad. If your main line is 150 ft long and supposed to represent 100 miles of territory, then having the engine facilities 30 feet away will make it seem like its 20 miles away from the yard. So that may seem a little funny. Most of the examples I have seen had a large terminal with the engine facilities a couple miles away within the same terminal area. You can separate the two but you shuould try to make it seem like the engine facilities are in the same general terminal area as the yard.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Back into the model railroading side:
IIRC, Bruce Chubb's original basement-filler had the main engine terminal that served his end-of-the-railroad terminal built almost as a diorama, physically separated from the rest of the railroad by a structural wall. Locomotives had to pass through a tunnel to enter or exit the scene. There was no space in the terminal proper for any kind of engine facility.
My own main station, Tomikawa, is an engine change point - but has only minimal locomotive servicing facilities (water plugs, micro-size coal facility, turntable and a few ready tracks.) The main engine sheds are at the downhill ends of the locomotives' runs - in hidden staging.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
At Freeport, Illinois on the Illinois Central, Wallace Yard was along the north side of the town while the roundhouse was the other side of "downtown" and the freight and passenger stations... certainly at least 1.5 miles away.
We all have to "squeeze" things to fit our particular space. Although it has been done on some beautiful layouts, my personal view is that when a roundhouse is placed directly inside a return loop of the main line it just doesn't look right. Again IMHO, as long as that distance between the engine facility and the yard doesn't cause your locomotives to be spending a long time out on some rural main line to go back and forth... although the earlier submissions certainly have documented that such things have occurred.
Six feet should be "no pobem".
Bill
Do you have room for 3 or 4 A/D tracks at the facilities? In Tate, Ga, the L&N used to interchange with the Ga Marble Quarry Co. All that was at the interchange was 3 sidings to form an interchange yard with the switching done at plant 3, about 5 rail miles away. Servicing was done at plant 5, another 12 miles at the end of the line.
Today, GaNorthEastern operates both the former L&N and the Ga Marble Branch, and the breaking/making of trains is still done at plant 3, but the servicing is now done at Tate where the facilities have reduced the yard to 2 holding tracks, main line and the branch lead comes off the facilities thru track.
If your yard is mostly classification/local switching, this may work for you.