Yet another Rock Ridge and Train City--New Plan end p2

[SpaceMouse]

Chip,

I'm going to ask a dumb and obvious question.  Is there a wall to the left of the helix?  If so, I trust you will have some kind of access hole in the middle to reach any...(gasp!)...(Should I even mumble the dreaded words?)...derailments that (inevitably) may happen?

Tom

Thanks. But I will never have a derailment. I'm just not going to allow it.  

The wall is about 14 feet to the left of the helix. It is actually under a stairwell.  

 

[tstage]

Chip,

I'm going to ask a dumb and obvious question.  Is there a wall to the left of the helix?  If so, I trust you will have some kind of access hole in the middle to reach any...(gasp!)...(Should I even mumble the dreaded words?)...derailments that (inevitably) may happen?

Tom

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks. This is a big help.

[SpaceMouse]

OK, your man working the yard can work it from the end of the peninsula, so that free's up the middle a bit.  By slowing down the pace just a little (Your yard man will thank you!), you can stagger your east/west inbounds so that as one leaves the other arrives.  That will keep them on seperate sides of the layout.  If the schedule gets behind, then it gets a little more crowded, just as it would in real life.  Now the local has always had to bend over backwards to accomodate everyone else in real life.  In this case it's no different.  By slowing the pace just a bit it gives him a little more wiggle room to get his job done.

It will be tight at times, but just like on the prototype, it's just the way it is sometimes.

Phillip and Tom,

I may be making more of this than I need to. With just the small version of the layout, there certainly need not be a crunch.   

Tom,

Yesterday I spent the afternoon working a way-freight along a busy layout. The dispatcher was good and we spent very little time standing. Still when the session ended my route was half-complete and I spent 3 hours working it. The other trains typically take 45 minutes to an hour to complete their runs. It was a blast. I love the locals. I also like yard switching.  

 

[SpaceMouse]

Sure would be nice if you could either hole, or get rid of, that wall between your helix and the yard...at least the lower 3-4'.  You could have a couple guys working the yard that way.

Unfortunately, that is the stairwell.

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks Dave. This is kinds stuff I was looking for.  IT has altered my thinking in several ways.

A whole lot of problems with Train City yard.

The only way in is the same track that is the lead.

The only way in is the same track used to do all the switching along the main.

It is quite dense, but I don't think it is quite as bad as you are making it out. There are three ways of getting into the yard: the "lead" which extends out into the A/D track/siding; the engine track; and the industrial track.   

The only long runaround in the yard is now industry tracks and will be blocked with spotted cars.

Everything in or out of the left helix will have to shove in or out of Train City yard.

I think the expression 10 lbs of stuff in 5 lb bag may be appropriate.

There are actually 3 ways to make long runarounds: lead/engine track; lead/industrial track; industrial track/engine track. However, unless the lead is fouled this should not be an issue. Cars set out from through freights can be shoved temporarily into the industrial track access. If need be, overflow can go into the engine lead, but that should be rare.  

The industrial tracks behind the yard have several ways to make runarounds and can actually pull empties and out going cars and put then out for switching even if the track into that area is blocked. Actual spotting of cars in both Train City and Rock Ridge industries need only be once a day.

Meets at Rock Ridge are a little problematic, but can be handled in one of two ways. Typical trains will be 6 - 8 short cars. The engines just can't pull more. The smaller trains will have no problem. Longer trains will need to either pull into the siding and onto the branch line, then back onto the main until the head clears to exit (western approach) or pull into the siding with the head out onto the main until the cab clears and back into the branch line (eastern approach).

TT&TO operation will be a bit frustrating because there is only one meeting point on the layout, at Rock City and that has to be shared with any job switching Rock City, plus looks to be a very short siding.  The siding on the main at Train City will have to be in yard limits to make it work (it will have to be renamed because of confusion with Train City yard) and will be a challenge because trains will disappear of the main track into the yard.  The siding at Train City will have to be a register station too because of that.  Not saying that it can't be done but it may be a little frustrating.

Also remember that in the 1800's, which if I remember correctly is your era, trains wouldn't be "sitting outside the yard waiting for permission to come in."  They would drive up into the yard until something was in their way because there was no method of giving them "permission to come in".  There were no radios.  They would go as far as they could until they found a flagman for the train ahead or they reached a person who could give them instructions. 

Dave H.

With this layout as a stand alone, the issue of trains entering train city right out of the tunnel is an issue. However, when the the main layout is built, I can put as many sidings outside of town as I need to control traffic. Trains could be held via signals to line shacks on sidings via telegraphs.

Without getting too grim, I can't build the basement layout until my 90-year-old mother-in-law passes. When she does, my son can vacate his bedroom and we can build onto the house to create a studio for my wife. When she pulls her paintings out of storage, I then have trackage rights to the entire basement.

There is certainly a lot to think about here. There is certainly a trade off between operations now and operations future. I imagine that I could ease the pressure of the future issues by converting the industrial tracks behind the yard into an A/D overflow of sorts when the time comes.

 

[Tom Bryant_MR]

Chip, I'm of Phillip's mindset. You determine the pace, aka the schedule.  The number of staging tracks and trains does not mean they have to all be run in one or even two sessions.

While admittedly, I'm green in the area of ops, I find it really interesting.  It's like a puzzle that the RR has to figure out - what to run when and where.

Unless your goal is to have a several trains working all at the same time, I believe very satisfactory operations can be done with 2-4 people.  I think Joe F said it, it's the quality of the run not how many trains are running.

I found Realistic Freight Operations by Frank Ellison well worth the $8.50 download price. He talks about the lowly way freight offering "more down-to-earth railroading per square foot of track than a brace of speedsters."

http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/mrpdf038.html

Slowing things down may be the magic order of the day in your case. 

Regards,

[dehusman]

A whole lot of problems with Train City yard.

The only way in is the same track that is the lead.

The only way in is the same track used to do all the switching along the main.

The only long runaround in the yard is now industry tracks and will be blocked with spotted cars.

Everything in or out of the left helix will have to shove in or out of Train City yard.

I think the expression 10 lbs of stuff in 5 lb bag may be appropriate.

TT&TO operation will be a bit frustrating because there is only one meeting point on the layout, at Rock City and that has to be shared with any job switching Rock City, plus looks to be a very short siding.  The siding on the main at Train City will have to be in yard limits to make it work (it will have to be renamed because of confusion with Train City yard) and will be a challenge because trains will disappear of the main track into the yard.  The siding at Train City will have to be a register station too because of that.  Not saying that it can't be done but it may be a little frustrating.

Also remember that in the 1800's, which if I remember correctly is your era, trains wouldn't be "sitting outside the yard waiting for permission to come in."  They would drive up into the yard until something was in their way because there was no method of giving them "permission to come in".  There were no radios.  They would go as far as they could until they found a flagman for the train ahead or they reached a person who could give them instructions. 

Dave H.

[pcarrell]

OK, your man working the yard can work it from the end of the peninsula, so that free's up the middle a bit.  By slowing down the pace just a little (Your yard man will thank you!), you can stagger your east/west inbounds so that as one leaves the other arrives.  That will keep them on seperate sides of the layout.  If the schedule gets behind, then it gets a little more crowded, just as it would in real life.  Now the local has always had to bend over backwards to accomodate everyone else in real life.  In this case it's no different.  By slowing the pace just a bit it gives him a little more wiggle room to get his job done.

It will be tight at times, but just like on the prototype, it's just the way it is sometimes.

[selector]

Sure would be nice if you could either hole, or get rid of, that wall between your helix and the yard...at least the lower 3-4'.  You could have a couple guys working the yard that way.

[SpaceMouse]

Lately I've been trying to think of the Rock Ridge and Train City in terms of the basement layout. I intend to make the layout one that will be operated using train orders and car cards and follow prototypical operations as much as possible. Although I haven't figured out train orders, dispatching, etc. via telegraph yet. First The new plan. Besides the obvious difference of the two oval helices and the lower deck staging, I have added switching of industry flats behind the yard and a caboose track, and a few minor differences. The dilemma has to do with Rock Ridge and Train City in relation to the entire basement layout. (The Train City Staging becomes points north of Sacramento, eg. Shasta Branch, etc.) Train City Yard becomes a hot spot for operations. All trains east or west have to stop for power change and icing of refers. Passenger trains also have to change power. The Train City Yard Master has also to build and break down locals and set-outs for Rock Ridge and Train City switching--so he's going to be one busy SOB. In the mean time, There will be trains coming from both east and west to enter the yard. Meaning 2 more people. Add the guys running the locals and you have 3-4 people humping trains in that small little space. Either that, or trains stack-up on the main awaiting for permission to enter the yard. It's going to be really busy and really tight.