jwar wrote:Hi Chip...Have you considered moving the roundhouse into the upper left hand corner, setting the turntable (bottom clearence) inside the hidden track below with the roundhouse back in the corner, over the track under it. My thinking is the rounhouse may fit into the corner and its enterior visable if lit (that to me would look neat), The lead tracks could then come from either or both directions to the table. This could free up the yard area and you may have also room around the roundhouse for support buildings, supply track ect. Oh well just a thought....John
I agree it would look neat, but I don't think it is possible. The invisible track is the mainline and access to the yard comes from the siding 3 feet away from the roundhouse. You would have to have 12% grade to make the height not including the transition grades. If the transition grades were each a foot long then the actual grade goes to 36%. While a short engine might make it down the roller coaster, I doubt one could get back up.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
wrumbel wrote: ChipTake a look at this site www.tslr.com scroll down to bottom to doors, ducks, and access. This guy has some good ideas with good pictures.Wayne
Take a look at this site www.tslr.com scroll down to bottom to doors, ducks, and access. This guy has some good ideas with good pictures.
Wayne
I followed that link and got a generic DSL page. Is there a more specific link?
rrinker wrote:Here's a radical idea: make that staging yard an operating yard. Roundhouse could go inside the loop - there's a prototype for it somewhere. Then instead of that yard and roundhouse and turntable eating up all the space on the left wall, you could actually narrow that benchwork to open up the aisle more, and add more industries. --Randy
Wait a second. Wasn't it your idea to take the staging from where I had it and put it in the laundry room so I could open up that wall to industries? Next when I change staging into a new yard and move staging down the left wall of the laundry area, you'll want to convert that and pretty soon I'll have a full basement of converted staging yards and have my "real" staging in my garage. Wait, that staging in the garage can become a new town.
Okay, in this version a lot of the problems I mentioned before are gone. Crandell convinced me that I could build a gate that could stand frequent use.
There's a small blob in the area in the area of the roundhouse. The track along the left wall has been brought out of the tunnel and I added a passing track. This allowed me to move the yard 3" to the left and that gave me room to put a road and industries down in front of the yard. This took pressure off Train City and I was able to organize the roads and put in the icing platform, although it would have been better on the siding than on the main. I also got the false front buildings that will help extend Train City into the back drop.
I still have some work to do in Rock Ridge area. I need to get engine service for the Rock Ridge Mine switcher. I also have to figure out the new industry and place the company town.
All in all, I like it.
Sorry I say nay. Staging he has. A yard he has. Industry too. What more do you want?
I'll give you the Roundhouse inside the loop of staging and allow that space to open up the town. Hows them ideas?
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Safety Valve wrote: I like this plan.
I like this plan.
Thanks SV. And thanks for the thought you put into this. I have to admit this plan is growing on me. I still have a certain anxiety as I don't feel Train City is properly planned. I forced things to make them work when I was getting tired.
I will have to pick at it a little bit but I like this plan. Need I say more? Maybe later I will find something to pick on. I have to put away the big steam and get the 4-4-0 out for perspective.That Lift Out is the key to the entire plan. Call it Keystone Gap or something.
That Lift Out is the key to the entire plan. Call it Keystone Gap or something.
I agree. Without it I can't build the layout in two phases--I have to remodel laundry before I build staging. I'd like to get it up and running before that.
Ok, I ran a train on it on paper, I can get a train built in the yard to either town, switch them and bring the results back to the yard. The siding on the top there next to the yard is going to be the absolute key because you can yard a train, run around it in one of two ways and shove the whole thing into a yard track and then go to the engine house without interrupting the main.
Am I that obvious?
Must all that track be hidden? Try a different scenic effect after a few feet. To hide a whole train is to induce anxiety when operating it.
My first response is that it is a necessary evil, but now that I think about it. A train could run beside the yard, separated by trees or buildings and seem logical. It is only the transitions between Rock Ridge and Train City that are important. A short tunnel there might be enough. I could gain some space in the yard area which can take a lot of pressure off the industrial switching issues.
Dont forget that some railroads "Hung" thier engines or tender over the edge of the TT. Then again if your son's engine just wont fit then you have a wye option to turn it via staging.
The wheelbase of the 2-8-0 plus tender is 9 1/4" I have an Atlas TT I planned to pit-bash anyway so making it 10" won't be a problem. It is also not a priority. For the time being, he'll have his own birth in staging.
The only other problem I see is that the siding at the mine is a tad short. Dont you at least want to make it as long as the total capacity of the mine tracks plus the engine and caboose?
Are you talking about the spur or the siding? An incoming train bent on dropping cars can utilize the branch line in addition to the siding. If you are talking about the spur, I pictured it for dropping and setting out cars. I didn't check it for total mine capacity. To be honest, I don't know what my total mine capacity is. I'll work on it.
Im not sure how long your staging is going to be, if you are able to maintain complete trains on each track ready to go then I think that you are all set.
Here is the staging area. It's actually an older version, but very similar. As Alan pointed out it is mislabeled. It is actually 4 track and has a capacity of 10 trains. I plan two tracks and 5 trains each direction.
Alan_B wrote: I hate duck-unders and gates ( I had a duck-under in the old layout). I probably went through 50 general layouts before I got to something that looked good enough to finesse into the "final" layout this time around.Can you possibly go through the wall in the area around the turntable and roundhouse? If so, you can have your main line run along the front edge of the layout (instead of crossing the door), go through the wall to your hidden staging. this would keep the general shape and arrangement that you now have, without the gate.Block detection for staging does not have to be too obvious. Did you see what I did with the 12 LED's that I use for hidden track occupancy detection?
I hate duck-unders and gates ( I had a duck-under in the old layout). I probably went through 50 general layouts before I got to something that looked good enough to finesse into the "final" layout this time around.
Can you possibly go through the wall in the area around the turntable and roundhouse? If so, you can have your main line run along the front edge of the layout (instead of crossing the door), go through the wall to your hidden staging. this would keep the general shape and arrangement that you now have, without the gate.
Block detection for staging does not have to be too obvious. Did you see what I did with the 12 LED's that I use for hidden track occupancy detection?
Alan,
Thanks for your observations.
I'm not sure I get what you are talking about. To the left of the layout is the stairs to the house. I can penetrate the wall in the back where I go under the stairs, but not in the front to go over the stairs.
As for the block detection, we are only talking about half the problem. I still need to know which loco (decoder address) to address. Since the trains will be stacked either 2 - 3 deep in each staging track, staging is more than just putting a train in motion, you have to move each train forward so that the arriving train has a berth. That would be easier if you were standing there, rather than relying on video feeds and block detection.
SpaceMouse wrote: Lego_90 wrote: I don't have insight on the gate specifically, but I have insight on kids. I don't know how old your son is, but you said he'd be helping you. Kids tend to be rougher on things than we might be. Either build that liftout bulletproof with some solid hinges and minimal scenery that can be damaged, or expect a lot of wear and tear in that spot.Putting myself in your shoes, I could even see myself accidently causing damage with as many times as you'll need to open and close the gate during a session. Definitely build it with the precision and durability of a car door if its going to be used several times per session.That's my thinking anyway. :)Thanks--any you are 100% right. The other side of the coin is to limit the use of the gate and make the staging visible and operable from the layout side of the wall. That would mean video equipment and sensors or a window--both would detract from the Old West feel. To gate or not to gate? to misquote Wild Willy.
Lego_90 wrote: I don't have insight on the gate specifically, but I have insight on kids. I don't know how old your son is, but you said he'd be helping you. Kids tend to be rougher on things than we might be. Either build that liftout bulletproof with some solid hinges and minimal scenery that can be damaged, or expect a lot of wear and tear in that spot.Putting myself in your shoes, I could even see myself accidently causing damage with as many times as you'll need to open and close the gate during a session. Definitely build it with the precision and durability of a car door if its going to be used several times per session.That's my thinking anyway. :)
I don't have insight on the gate specifically, but I have insight on kids. I don't know how old your son is, but you said he'd be helping you. Kids tend to be rougher on things than we might be. Either build that liftout bulletproof with some solid hinges and minimal scenery that can be damaged, or expect a lot of wear and tear in that spot.
Putting myself in your shoes, I could even see myself accidently causing damage with as many times as you'll need to open and close the gate during a session. Definitely build it with the precision and durability of a car door if its going to be used several times per session.
That's my thinking anyway. :)
Thanks--any you are 100% right.
The other side of the coin is to limit the use of the gate and make the staging visible and operable from the layout side of the wall. That would mean video equipment and sensors or a window--both would detract from the Old West feel.
To gate or not to gate? to misquote Wild Willy.
I will have to pick at it a little bit but I like this plan. Need I say more? Maybe later I will find something to pick on. I have to put away the big steam and get the 4-4-0 out for perspective.
Probably, yes.
If you are getting attached to what it affords you in this current drawing, then I would go for only a lift-out for such a short span, or for a swing-down. The other two variants will be hard to fit and make them look good, and in the case of the swing-aside, it'll be a hip banger and get damaged over time.
I am happy with my swing-down, but had considered only the lift-out variant for many weeks, so it had always been a strong contender for me.
The issue, for me...and quite probably eventually for you...was, what to do with it when it is not wanted in situ? I had no good answer, so I finally settled on a hinged version so that I didn't have to figure out where I would place it.
You will presumably leave it in place most often, and only remove it for ingress and egress. For me, it was all about space and how to get to things and to get them back to where I wanted them. In this case, hinges made it all come together. Also, mine is nearly 46" long, and getting it to line up on both ends simultaneously by myself was going to end up badly one time. Lastly, I have to negotiate mine while operating, and you won't. In my case, I know that I would bang against it from time to time. Mounting pins, such as stereo connectors, were going to take a beating, and so would the rail alignments. So, my mounting had to be robust. I am pleased to say that the twin brass hinges and twin brass barrel locks have so far pleased me to no end.
For you, not being near it very often, and if your son won't prefer to run below it and misjudge his standing, the simple lift-out is the way to go.
Crandell,
Thanks for clarifying. I kinda got it with the first version, but wasn't 100% sure.
Now, do you have insight based on your experiences with whether or not I'll be happy with a lift-out/gate in a high traffic area?
I understand, Chip.
If you look strictly at the periphery of the newly adapted Rock Ridge portion, on the lower right, you have narrowed the aisle considerably, but also made that lower, sharp, point with the bench. There seems, to me, to be a lot of useless, or largely useless, space between the tracks and all that pointy benchwork.
What I was suggesting is that you tuck that entire vertical face back, but more at the point so that the point is much more obtuse, and not acute as you have it shown..to use geometric terms. Assuming you are happy with the aisle width, then, you could afford to come out where the house is, just 3-4", and give yourself more scenick room, another exterior radial, a wheel-set track, whatever. Your lift-out will change very little, except for the angle of its right edge to meet the modified line of Rock Ridge module.
Just cosmetically, I feel the sharp point on the Ridge is not in keeping with the overall plan.
Have I done better that time?
Brunton wrote: Without a scale track plan I can't be sure if there are fit issues or not with these ideas, but ...
Without a scale track plan I can't be sure if there are fit issues or not with these ideas, but ...
Thanks for your thoughts Mark.
Sorry. I made the assumption that everyone has been following my saga. It is HO scale. Old West, small steam. The grid disappears when I convert to .jpg.
Why not mirror Rock Ridge aling the ling axis of the peninsula? Coming off the lift-out, curve the main so the track and passing siding are on the inside edge of the peninsula, and not the outside edge? Then you don't have to go through the lift-out to get to Rock Ridge station, anyway.
The area of Rock Ridge is the top level of my 4 x 8 and represents 2 years of custom and detail work. I keep debating if I should pitch it and start over, but I haven't brought myself to that point.
Also, seems to me that a third passing siding somewhere would make operations on the main much more interesting. Wouldn't have to be another town - just a passing siding between towns. You might be able to make the mainline a double loop rather than a big oval, to get some distance between each town / passing siding. Most of the second loop could be hidden, with it just appearing in the vicinity of the passing siding. Thing is, you'd have a lot more hidden track. Some people hate that.Anyway, just a couple of ideas filtered through my own preference screen.
Anyway, just a couple of ideas filtered through my own preference screen.
Clearly, the lack of passenger sidings are the weak point of this layout operationally. The ones that I have now are crucial to ops in terms of switching so even those are tainted. The only place I have room is in the mountains between the towns and I think doubling the main there would detract from the scenery. I'm probably going to do it.
Staging adds about 32 feet to the main--all hidden. Between that and the existing tunnels about 60% of the run is hidden. Do I like it? Hidden trackage is a best a necessary evil, and a PIA.
selector wrote: If it were my layout, I would take back that lowest right corner area that you have added to Rock Ridge in the new plan, and reorient that edge toward lower right, at an angle. That would kink the aisle, but allow you to come out at the 'house and put in more tracks, etc, near the turntable, maybe even curve the butt-ends for more room...whatever.
If it were my layout, I would take back that lowest right corner area that you have added to Rock Ridge in the new plan, and reorient that edge toward lower right, at an angle. That would kink the aisle, but allow you to come out at the 'house and put in more tracks, etc, near the turntable, maybe even curve the butt-ends for more room...whatever.
I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what you mean here. The only thing I can think of is the lower left side of Rock Ridge. I knew that was tight near the roundhouse, but wanted it in there for now to get the feel.
IOW, if you don't have a great hankering to scratch a 'house, get the Cornerstone three staller and use the room that I suggest. Moving each edge to the right should not affect your lift-out very much, perhaps to make the right end of it angled to match the changed edge at right..not sure how you'd feel about that.
I've been thinking about it and I can't think of an easier scratch than a roundhouse. I have small engines, so I don't need the big monster commercial houses. All my engines fit on a 9" turntable with the exception of my son's 1920's Consolidation and it is 9 1/4". I figure a roundhouse with 12" sides will fit a lot of places where the commercial ones won't.
I think spans and lift-outs/swing downs are nifty. They are little trouble to make and to ensure the rails meet nicely, and can add some spiffy gee-whizz to a layout if done creatively.
The lift-out is the key to this layout. It allows met to complete a loop within the layout area. What this means is I can have continuous running while I remodel the laundry area. The old plan relies on staging to complete the loop. The problem with the lift out is that in an ops session, I will be running 10 trains from staging. That means at minimum I will be lifting out that track 20 times in a session. The other issue is operating Rock Rock Ridge. As it stands now, passenger operations and LTL freight, and the interchange track for the Rock Ridge branch must be operated from the outside.
The lift-out is in a high traffic area. So the questions are: Will it hold up? Will it be easy enough? Will it get old really fast?
You haven't drawn any yet, but I'm pretty sure you will have at least one run-around in the yard, a crossover or something?
It is not an omission, I just don't see the value. Presumably, the runaround you refer to is to allow engines to escape. In my plan, the engines are gone as soon as they drop the train on the A/D. There are two places a switcher can runaround. The least desirable is the main/A-D track. And the other is the lead/ladder/engine tracks. A runaround in the yard wastes a track and shortens another.
I'm open to persuasion.
That long hidden track near the wall, parallel to your left-most yard track, I take it that getting to it will be relatively easy? What will hide it...I have lost track, sorry?
The benchwork will be sitting on DVD/bookshelves and open from underneath. The reason the yard track is 7" away from that track is so I can build an incline that creates a tunnel. It will be heavily forested. The loop below the roundhouse/yard will not bee seen from the operating area.
Finally, is there any reason you could not continue the track curving around Rock Ridge to the upper right along and curve north again, parallel to your trestle, but a lower one, and join up into your village someplace for an alternate loop (reversing though it will be)?
I kinda like the added operations that would be created by making Rock Ridge a branch line.
Thanks for your time and thoughts Crandell.
Also, seems to me that a third passing siding somewhere would make operations on the main much more interesting. Wouldn't have to be another town - just a passing siding between towns. You might be able to make the mainline a double loop rather than a big oval, to get some distance between each town / passing siding. Most of the second loop could be hidden, with it just appearing in the vicinity of the passing siding. Thing is, you'd have a lot more hidden track. Some people hate that.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
If it were my layout, I would take back that lowest right corner area that you have added to Rock Ridge in the new plan, and reorient that edge toward lower right, at an angle. That would kink the aisle, but allow you to come out at the 'house and put in more tracks, etc, near the turntable, maybe even curve the butt-ends for more room...whatever. IOW, if you don't have a great hankering to scratch a 'house, get the Cornerstone three staller and use the room that I suggest. Moving each edge to the right should not affect your lift-out very much, perhaps to make the right end of it angled to match the changed edge at right..not sure how you'd feel about that.
I think spans and liftouts/swing downs are nifty. They are little trouble to make and to ensure the rails meet nicely, and can add some spiffy gee-whizz to a layout if done creatively.
Here it is.
What I like. Continuous running. 22 Radius curves on mainline. #5 turnouts on main.Rock Ridge area is clean and industries are more developed.Track coming from lift out behind yard cannot be seen from operating area.Relatively large yard.Roundhouse (Will have to scratch-build one that small. No sweat.More buildings in Train City.What I don't like:Fewer Industries in Train City than the old plan and don't fit as well.Train City industries are not fluid and logical--Feels thrown together.Bridge (lift-out) makes it hard to get to staging in other room and to the station in Rock Ridge.I think what may come out of this is a hybrid between the old plan and this one.
Staging is in laundry room to the left of the drawing and connects top left.
New.
Old