SpaceMouse wrote:Looks like room for a nice empire. Let your imagination go with it for a while. There are lots of ways to go with it.
I hope you won't find my comment indelicate or impertinent, but the distaff have been known to be, shall we say, capricious, and you might want to have a deed to that "land grant."
Of course, if they are capricious, then the deed won't be much good.... still, possession is nine points of the law.
Hello i am back with a new plan. This is the main plan without the staging yard at both ends of the layout.The main yard it's a copy of a real yard.
And my layout.
To the center i'll built an industry.There are one main line (left) and a second line for the cargo trains.
What are my mistakes?
Railroad,
I really like your plan so far. I'm sorry to say it but I was unable to view your previous plans, but I defiantly can say that this one has a lot of potential. I have only a few comments. First, your plan seems to be incomplete. On the main line, I'm assuming that the tracks go to some sort of hidden staging yard, but your wye track on the branch line is incomplete. You'll need a tail track on the one leg to make it fully operational for turning locomotives and cars. Secondly, you may want to add an industry on the main line. When it comes to operation, it can be pretty exciting to switch a mainline industry while other, high priority trains, such as passenger, and through freights, are running along the main line. Finally, it might be a good idea to incorporate a passing track somewhere along the main line, whether this is in the staging yard or not. Having one will allow you to run multiple trains in different directions. Overall, I think your layout is well thought out. Keep working on it, and you'll get to your dream plan soon. All I can say is that you've gotten a lot farther than I have in the last few weeks than I have in the last few years! Keep up the good work!
Ghonz
PS: Great prototype photo!
- Matt
This is a big improvement over your previous efforts. Well done!
The suggestions that ghonz makes are very good. pay attention to them.
Also, it's hard to tell from the plan, but are there any reach issues to contend with?
Railroad wrote: Hello i am back with a new plan. This is the main plan without the staging yard at both ends of the layout.The main yard it's a copy of a real yard. And my layout. To the center i'll built an industry.There are one main line (left) and a second line for the cargo trains. What are my mistakes?
I love that photo. I have never seen this place, but I almost have goosebumps because my own yard, still to be built, looks like a spitting image of that one....simply amazing!
First, your right partial loop is far too close to the edge of the bench at the extreme east. Second, if you were to continue that loop, but precisely where you have ceased to draw it, to commence a curve right (from the point of view of the engineer on that route, traveling south) and then join up with either of the closest east-west routes, you could have a loop and continuous running...but only if you also come off the lower curve just past its apex, at the top of the diagram, and turnout to cross the other side of your wye at right angles, and continue to turn north in a loop to join your top route. Simple, no?
I made the yard smaller to gain free space at the left side beside the main line.
The greens tracks are the basic level of the layout, and the orange are the lower level of staging yard.At the upper end maybe i will add a second staging yard, or i will connect it with the existing staging yard (black track).
At the to ends of the green tracks there is a black line where a tunel starts.
I want to add a single track to an upper level for continuous running, beside the main line at the left.Do you thing that's possible?
How about moving those tunnel entrances further around both loops? That would give you a little more open topside running. It would also make it so that when you're turning on the wye you don't have to duck into a tunnel if you're turning longer equipment.
Also, the point selector brought up is a good one. It looks as if there are several places on your layout where the tracks pass real close to the edge of the layout or the backdrop. Adding a bit of distance between those things might prove helpful.
pcarrell wrote: How about moving those tunnel entrances further around both loops? That would give you a little more open topside running. It would also make it so that when you're turning on the wye you don't have to duck into a tunnel if you're turning longer equipment. Also, the point selector brought up is a good one. It looks as if there are several places on your layout where the tracks pass real close to the edge of the layout or the backdrop. Adding a bit of distance between those things might prove helpful.
Because the radious of the loops is only 17" and i want to hide them. To the visible curves i used 21.5" minimoun.
That's cool!
Railroad wrote: pcarrell wrote: How about moving those tunnel entrances further around both loops? That would give you a little more open topside running. It would also make it so that when you're turning on the wye you don't have to duck into a tunnel if you're turning longer equipment. Also, the point selector brought up is a good one. It looks as if there are several places on your layout where the tracks pass real close to the edge of the layout or the backdrop. Adding a bit of distance between those things might prove helpful. Because the radious of the loops is only 17" and i want to hide them. To the visible curves i used 21.5" minimoun.
those 17" hidden curves might pose a lot of problems for you... especially on anything longer than 40-50'
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
I thing that i am close to the finish line.I managed to draw a continuous running line beside the main line as a secondary main line with a different destination.
I also added a second staging yard.(orange tracks).
I am waiting for your comments and suggestion to fix any bad or strange desing.
Thank you for your patience and attention that you show to my project.But as i mentioned before, i have no expirience in layout desinging and only with your help i will avoid at least serious mistakes.
NeO6874 wrote: Railroad wrote: pcarrell wrote: How about moving those tunnel entrances further around both loops? That would give you a little more open topside running. It would also make it so that when you're turning on the wye you don't have to duck into a tunnel if you're turning longer equipment. Also, the point selector brought up is a good one. It looks as if there are several places on your layout where the tracks pass real close to the edge of the layout or the backdrop. Adding a bit of distance between those things might prove helpful. Because the radious of the loops is only 17" and i want to hide them. To the visible curves i used 21.5" minimoun. those 17" hidden curves might pose a lot of problems for you... especially on anything longer than 40-50'
Maybe i'll try to fit 19" radious curves
Your plan looks very well done. Great use of staging. I have two comments. Firstly, between the staging yard and the reverse loop on the bottom leg of the layout, there is a lot of wasted space. I suggest that you fill that area up with stub tracks (tracks with only one turnout ladder. You should be able to fit about four more tracks for storage of cars you aren't using, or extra train storage for longer operating sessions.
I also have a comment on the grade or incline between the two levels. You may want at least 10 inches between each level to allow for wiring, bench work, and under-table turnout mechanisms and for some arm room to fix derailments or to place / remove cars from the tracks. If I calculated correctly, the left loop, with a 19" radius has to make a 16% grade both ways. This is WAY too steep for an HO model to climb, even on it's own. I suggest that you use a helix on both end loops to lower the track gradually.
A helix is basically a spiral of track that allows for an elevation change to happen gradually, thus making it easier for a locomotive and its train to climb. However, many modelers would discourage some to construct a helix because they are difficult to build, and a hassle to fix if a problem comes up, but a helix has it's benefits. A helix takes up A LOT less space than a relatively un-winded version of the helix that many call a "no-lix" and can allow for a very gradual change in elevation in a relatively small space. I would suggest that if you plan on building two helixes that you allow 12" of elevation change, which would allow for three loops with 4" of space between them. At this rate, you would have a grade of approx. 3.5%, which still may be a little steep, but would be operational, in comparison to the 16%. If needed, you can hire a carpenter to build them for you.
I hope this information helps!
ghonz711 wrote: Railroad, Your plan looks very well done. Great use of staging. I have two comments. Firstly, between the staging yard and the reverse loop on the bottom leg of the layout, there is a lot of wasted space. I suggest that you fill that area up with stub tracks (tracks with only one turnout ladder. You should be able to fit about four more tracks for storage of cars you aren't using, or extra train storage for longer operating sessions. I also have a comment on the grade or incline between the two levels. You may want at least 10 inches between each level to allow for wiring, bench work, and under-table turnout mechanisms and for some arm room to fix derailments or to place / remove cars from the tracks. If I calculated correctly, the left loop, with a 19" radius has to make a 16% grade both ways. This is WAY too steep for an HO model to climb, even on it's own. I suggest that you use a helix on both end loops to lower the track gradually. A helix is basically a spiral of track that allows for an elevation change to happen gradually, thus making it easier for a locomotive and its train to climb. However, many modelers would discourage some to construct a helix because they are difficult to build, and a hassle to fix if a problem comes up, but a helix has it's benefits. A helix takes up A LOT less space than a relatively un-winded version of the helix that many call a "no-lix" and can allow for a very gradual change in elevation in a relatively small space. I would suggest that if you plan on building two helixes that you allow 12" of elevation change, which would allow for three loops with 4" of space between them. At this rate, you would have a grade of approx. 3.5%, which still may be a little steep, but would be operational, in comparison to the 16%. If needed, you can hire a carpenter to build them for you. I hope this information helps! Ghonz
Yes you are right.I will see about that when i'll start the construction of the layout.As i see it now it does not affect the plan.
Railroad wrote: ghonz711 wrote: Railroad, I also have a comment on the grade or incline between the two levels. You may want at least 10 inches between each level to allow for wiring, bench work, and under-table turnout mechanisms and for some arm room to fix derailments or to place / remove cars from the tracks. If I calculated correctly, the left loop, with a 19" radius has to make a 16% grade both ways. This is WAY too steep for an HO model to climb, even on it's own. I suggest that you use a helix on both end loops to lower the track gradually. A helix is basically a spiral of track that allows for an elevation change to happen gradually, thus making it easier for a locomotive and its train to climb. However, many modelers would discourage some to construct a helix because they are difficult to build, and a hassle to fix if a problem comes up, but a helix has it's benefits. A helix takes up A LOT less space than a relatively un-winded version of the helix that many call a "no-lix" and can allow for a very gradual change in elevation in a relatively small space. I would suggest that if you plan on building two helixes that you allow 12" of elevation change, which would allow for three loops with 4" of space between them. At this rate, you would have a grade of approx. 3.5%, which still may be a little steep, but would be operational, in comparison to the 16%. If needed, you can hire a carpenter to build them for you. I hope this information helps! Ghonz Yes you are right.I will see about that when i'll start the construction of the layout.As i see it now it does not affect the plan.
ghonz711 wrote: Railroad, I also have a comment on the grade or incline between the two levels. You may want at least 10 inches between each level to allow for wiring, bench work, and under-table turnout mechanisms and for some arm room to fix derailments or to place / remove cars from the tracks. If I calculated correctly, the left loop, with a 19" radius has to make a 16% grade both ways. This is WAY too steep for an HO model to climb, even on it's own. I suggest that you use a helix on both end loops to lower the track gradually. A helix is basically a spiral of track that allows for an elevation change to happen gradually, thus making it easier for a locomotive and its train to climb. However, many modelers would discourage some to construct a helix because they are difficult to build, and a hassle to fix if a problem comes up, but a helix has it's benefits. A helix takes up A LOT less space than a relatively un-winded version of the helix that many call a "no-lix" and can allow for a very gradual change in elevation in a relatively small space. I would suggest that if you plan on building two helixes that you allow 12" of elevation change, which would allow for three loops with 4" of space between them. At this rate, you would have a grade of approx. 3.5%, which still may be a little steep, but would be operational, in comparison to the 16%. If needed, you can hire a carpenter to build them for you. I hope this information helps! Ghonz
The helix, especially on a tight radius like 19" radius, will be the most difficult portion of your layout to construct AND the most problemmatic to operate if the track is not as bullet-proof as you can make it. For these reasons, I would build at least one helix very early on when there are many fewer access issues, and it can be a test point for your rolling stock and locomotives.
By building one helix early on and a small portion of both levels, you will also be testing the constructability of your plan. Almost any plan has "gotchas" waiting to be discovered and overcome. Yours, due to the combination of fairly crowded track, tight radius curves, steep grades, and two levels is riskier than most. Build some of the more critical parts first to see if you are going to be satisfied with the compromises over the long term. You may find that the helix and/or the two levels with the designed separation just doesn't work for you. Better to find this out early, rather than after several years of construction.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
After i read in this forum about broblems with helix, I deside to use no helix.I made a different plan with the blue tracks at grade and run around the layout instead of a helix.Do you think this will work?
Also i made at the right a bridge that i can remove to go out of the room.Or maybe go under it.I know it will a little bit annoying but i thing i will live with it.
Also the outer mainline to the left of the layout pass behide the station yard (red tracks) and connect to the right side of the yard.I am thinking to run this track (red)hidden maybe behide a wall so that it does not look strange running behide the yard.What do you thing?
Railroad wrote: Hello i am back with a new plan. This is the main plan without the staging yard at both ends of the layout.The main yard it's a copy of a real yard.
Hey, this is Dombås station here in Norway..! The picture is taken from the north; the tracks leaving the station in the bottom center of the picture are heading for Trondheim, and the track crossing the whole station is a branch line going to Åndalsnes at the west coast of Norway. I reckognize the engine on the right track, it's a Di3 "NoHAB"...
Cool...
Here's a map of the station area...:
Svein wrote: Railroad wrote: Hello i am back with a new plan. This is the main plan without the staging yard at both ends of the layout.The main yard it's a copy of a real yard. Hey, this is Dombås station here in Norway..! The picture is taken from the north; the tracks leaving the station in the bottom center of the picture are heading for Trondheim, and the track crossing the whole station is a branch line going to Åndalsnes at the west coast of Norway. I reckognize the engine on the right track, it's a Di3 "NoHAB"... Cool...
Yes you are right! I found this picture in the internet and i loved it.
Well i made some changes.This is the main level.
And this is in Lower level the staging yard.The blue tracks connects the upper and lower level.I did it this way to avoid use a helix.It has 2% grade.
pcarrell wrote:I've been watching, and I can't believe how much this plan has evolved! It's looking great! It kinda reminds me of my own in some ways. This thing is going to be awesome.
Thank you very much.As i understand you approve my plan.You give me satisfaction to continue with greater joy.
Hi Railroad,
I see you have been busy! I think you are definititely on the right track. Is it still going to be a German themed layout or is it going to be Norwegian?
I think the underground storage tracks could be designed a bit more efficiently but right now I cannot come up with someting better. One thing to take into account is the fact that the underground storagetracks should be the same length as the visible passing tracks in th station or out on the mainline.
Hopefully later in the week I can be back with some suggestions when I have finally some time to try out my new HP all-in-one officejet. Sorry that I could not react earlier.
greetings,
Marc Immeker
marcimmeker wrote: Hi Railroad, I see you have been busy! I think you are definititely on the right track. Is it still going to be a German themed layout or is it going to be Norwegian? I think the underground storage tracks could be designed a bit more efficiently but right now I cannot come up with someting better. One thing to take into account is the fact that the underground storagetracks should be the same length as the visible passing tracks in th station or out on the mainline. Hopefully later in the week I can be back with some suggestions when I have finally some time to try out my new HP all-in-one officejet. Sorry that I could not react earlier. greetings, Marc Immeker
Hi Mark,
It is still going to be a German themed Layout. I just liked very much the real Foto from Norway.
Railroad wrote: pcarrell wrote:I've been watching, and I can't believe how much this plan has evolved! It's looking great! It kinda reminds me of my own in some ways. This thing is going to be awesome. Thank you very much.As i understand you approve my plan.You give me satisfaction to continue with greater joy.
Yeah, I like it! Like I said, there are some aspects of it that are very similar to my own track plan. Just make sure you can reach all of those hidden tracks in case of emergency. And make sure your trackwork on the lower parts of the plan is perfect (i.e. bulletproof).
Again, nice plan!
Well i am back!
I have done the half benchwork but i am confused about the other half.From the last plan that i show you i made some changes like the double main line around the layout.Also i desided not to go for a staging yard for 2 reasons.First, because i am a beginner and that is more complex to build and second for the much more expenses for track, wood etc.
I made also an altenative plan and here is where i need your big help, to decide finaly with which plan to continue.
In the first photo is the "original" plan.All the green track will be hidden.In this plan i have a question for you about the green track below the foto and outside of the yard.Should i hide it or not?
And this is the second plan again with the green track hidden.
Please help me to make up my mind and continue.