I start designing my layout but it seems that i have not any experience to do it.It is my first attemt to the Railroadmodel world.
So, if you have any suggestion for track planning please help me.I am thinging Era III or V in Germany, and the space that i have is an L shape with one dimension 4,15x1,0 m and the other 2.85x1,20 m.
Almost all of us will suggest you get some books on layout design and some magazines that will give you pictures and read until you know what you like and want. Then you can start to design . Questions that need answers:
1. Scale
2. Space size
3. Point to point or circle route.
4. Opperations or scenery(you can have a little of both)
5. Flat or mountains.
6. Run trains or build models or make scenery.
With time you can do everything(10 years), but it is more fun when you are doing what you like the most at the beginning. You may change your mind later, but start with what makes you want this in the first place.
As you think this through, keep posting and you will get more help than you need.
Some answers.
1.Ho
2.L shape with one dimension 4,15x1,0 meters and the other 2.85x1,20 meters.
3.Circle route.I like running trains.
5.Some small mountains
About 4 and 6 what do you mean exactly?
I was thinking to the one side of the layout built a station and the other side a scenery with passing trains.
If you like opperations, you need to design a track plan to service all the facilities you want. You then add enough scenery to get what you want. If you like scenery(myself) you design the scenery effects you are after and then work the opperations in where they fit. I started with a switchback lumber camp in a mountain, a huge floor to ceiling canyon with two huge bridges and a box canyon mine in an Arizona mountain. When I had that all worked in my space, the rest just fell into shape. Many of the guys would really do it differently, but that is what I wanted.
If you want to run train, lay some track and finish it later.
If you like building models, build some nice ones while you decide on a track plan.
If you like scenery, lay enough track for a diorama that will fit in what ever you decide on.
The most useful early planning for me was reading dozens of issues of old mags and marking scenes I liked.
Let the fun continue
I also suggest readin my beginner's guide below.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Nice guide Spacemouse.
Also i see that i can't add a attactment in my message to show you what i am planing.
Thats not a problem, go to
photobucket.com and create a free account. log in to the site and click the browse button followed by the upload button, this will upload you image to the site. Once its uploaded you'l see 3 tags below the the image, highlight and copy the the one at the bottom of the 3 box's (with "[IMG]" at each end) and simply paste this into your post, job done!
SpaceMouse wrote: I also suggest readin my beginner's guide below.
I'd have suggested that as it's a great primer, but I didn't want to steal your thunder.
Well,i have design 2 plans as the base of the whole project.The 2 turnouts down to the image is the join with shadow station.
Please show me my mistakes and if you have any suggestion say it.
I feel like a small boy on the 1 first day to school!!
The second plan.
Both of those plans show promise, but they need some work.
I made this some time ago, but it's still useful. It shows the parts of a yard and labels them. Notice that the yard lead is long. The yard lead is as long as the Arrival/Departure track. That is so that the train can pull into the A/D track and then the yard switcher (sometimes called a goat) can have room on the yard lead to break off chunks of the train and then get them onto the ladder track and sort them into the yard tracks. Anyways, here's the pic.
It's nice but it is to long for my 13'6" x 9' 6" Layout.
I want to have moving trains so i desinged two main lines.Also i would like a third one independent line but i have not find where to put it,if it is possible.
Railroad wrote: It's nice but it is to long for my 13'6" x 9' 6" Layout.
The point Phillip has made is a good one. If you dont have room for all the aspects of a good and workable switching yard its a good idea to try and incorporate at least one or two aspects. The bottom plan as is could do with some sort of yard lead as you'l be fowling both the mains with any yard switching you do and so parralizing the whole layout.
You could incorporate a short branch by way of an elevated section and have some of the mains hidden. This will go some way to lessening the round and round feel of the layout.
Do you really want a doublecrossover at the yard in the first plan? Maintaining complex trackwork is not something that everyone wants to do. That crossover aside, you might want to add another (single) crossover farther out for more operational options.
I like the second plan but I would add another crossover. Is that a doubleslip switch by the turntable? I also like the diamonds crossing but I'd try to hide the fact that the track is looping back on itself with some kind of viewblock(s).
I lean toward linear designs with the simplest trackwork possible, but that's just me, so take my comments with a grain of salt...
Are there walls along the sides of your layout? If so, you will not be able to reach parts of your track. About .75 meters is all you can expect to reach.
Now is better?For yard lead i can use the line beside the main line.
What do you think of this thought. At the end of the main line from both direction (at the point that the tracks stops beside the station yard) the trains will be lead to the shadow yard and make a loop so that they come back from the same direction that left.
Yes Spacemouse the outer side of the layout is against the walls.
pcarrell wrote:I'm sorry, I wan't trying to suggest that you install my diagram as your yard. I was mearly using it to demonstrate the parts of a yard. Those parts can be worked into your plan. The lead be on a curve so that would help to fit the space. The A/D track is really nothing more then a continuation of the lead. The ladder is already in your plan. This could work.
Don't apologize! I need your suggestions!Does the above plan works?
Railroad wrote:Does the above plan works?
Sort of.
You basically have a large double loop and a make-shift yard with a turntable. You can run trains in circles and even change them a bit, but there is not a lot to do. Frankly, it seems to be a railroad without a purpose.
All railroads have a purpose. If your purpose is to watch trains run, then yours has one too. But there is very little there in terms of operational interest. You have no industries and without industries there is no where to set out and pick-up cars. You can sort of work an exchange yard, but you really have only two trains you can service (four if you run both directions) and very few cars you can work in and out.
At this point, I'd suggest getting hold of a copy of Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operations. Also, pick up a book of track plans and try to figure out why people are designing the way they are.
And you have a reach problem.
Chip makes some very good points. I'd pay attention to those.
I'm assuming you are just working out the main and you will add the industries later, so that's what I've been running with. Anyways, here's some yard info for you.
OK, obviously this would need tweaked to fit your situation exactly, but it should give you a good idea of a yard layout that would work.
See how the lead is set up seperately from thew mains, and both mains can access it? Actually, you'd want another crossover on the bottom right so that the yard could be accessed from there on both mains as well. I was hurrying so I missed that. Also note that the A/D track is not on the main. The train pulls into the yard via the lead and proceeds to the A/D track. Lead power is then cut from the train and the loco's head to service. The goat then begins to break down the train into the yard and because the lead is there and is seperate from the main traffic continues uninterupted out on the main line.
Now this is a yard in it's most basic form. There are many other tracks that could be added such as a caboose track or a switcher pocket, but this is a workable yard as it stands.
Phillip, that's how I would have handled that yard as well.
Railroad,
Here's a link to an article on staging. I know you don't have staging, but the article talks about operational concepts as well.
http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/Staging.html
SpaceMouse wrote: Phillip, that's how I would have handled that yard as well.
High praise indeed! Thanks!
SpaceMouse wrote: Phillip, that's how I would have handled that yard as well. Railroad, Here's a link to an article on staging. I know you don't have staging, but the article talks about operational concepts as well. http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/Staging.html
I have staging, but it was refering as shadow station/yard I am thinking to lead the two main lines to staging and make two loops so that they come back from the same direction that left.
I marked two points to the left and right of the layout where will be two tunels.
Philip
if i make a tunel what about the lead track? Can it be inside a tunel?
Generally you wouldn't have a lead track start in a tunnel, or even pass though one, but it is your RR. I would probably look at either adding a regular turnout somewhere in the curve (as far back from the yard as possible so that the lead is as long as it can be) or maybe using a curved turnout to get the lead out in the open,......but that's just me. Maybe someone else will have a better solution.
Also, I think you're going to find that you can move those tunnel entrances back towards the back of the layout and it'll look fine. You also may need to offset the feeder tracks to the lower staging yard or you're going to have interference problems.
Hi guys,
A couple of remarks. First, it is supposed to be a German layout. Era 3 or 5 will have some different looks. In era 3 the roundhouse probably is in operation if there is a branchline (modelled or not). A place to change from steam to diesel / electrics would be too much I think for this space. In era 5 (post 1985 or so I think) the roundhouse is demolished. The turntable may be there or not. Probably not and most of the tracks will be taken up. This limits operation severely, as per the current prototype.
Second, Railroad's givens and druthers are fairly typical in continental European model railroading, that is, double track mainline with branchline.
Third, it is in hO so the left side with the double track is not really going to work with full scale length passenger cars. My suggestion is to make it single track. This "improves" operation by introducing a bottleneck. Trains from the double track may have to wait for a train on the single track. Your TEE or IC or EC then may have to wait for the lowly Uerdinger railbus occupying the single track.
Fourth, to get that branchline, it is possible to branch off along the long side (behind the roundhouse) and then climb up and over to the other long side. There is plenty room there for a typical branchline terminal of main track, runaround track, stub track with single track enginehouse and a couple of freight spurs.
Fifth, to get that lead track for the freigth / passing tracks. Move the crossover from the yard to the bottom mainline around the corner passed the "crossing" (not on the level I assume). This will save you a double slip switch, it is relatively expensive in model form and on the prototype. Not only do you now have a long enough lead, but you can move some of the other switches in the freight / passing tracks further towards the corner and thus lengthening them. Putting the lead around the roundhouse will cost you one track from the double track. By the way, most stations do not have much in the way of dedicated spurs for single customers. In era 3 industrial areas on the outskirt of town were coming into vogue. If they had railservice it would be by a short freight only branch from the mainline.
Sixth, your original plan had two stub tracks next to the edge. I presume those were a stub ended passenger track for railbuses and the other for the ubiquitous freighthouse with team track and ramp.
Unfortunately, I do not have a scanner yet so I can not show you some typical solutions and prototype situations.
Railroad, I do not know were you live but try to get some of the german language magazines like Eisenbahn Kurier or Miba (Miniaturbahnen). They have regularly plans for your situation. Also, if you do not have a lot of equipment yet, give n-scale a try. your curves will look much better and there is simply more room for the station to model.
There is a big trainshow here in the Netherlands and I plan to attend. I will see if I can get some magazines or starter books about planning stations.
As an afterthought, why not place the station at the back and higher? This will make it easier to lenghten some tracks including the lead.
Feel free to mail me if you want more information and good luck with the design!
greetings,
Marc Immeker
Hello again, I am coming back with some good news for me.
After of one week with tough negotiation with my wife ( and after reminding her of my double size from her ) i finaly got the whole room for my layout.
Now i have much more flexibility for my plan.
Thank you for your time you spend for my previous plan and forgive me if you feel that you lost your time.
"I'll be back" like Arnold say's with a new plan.Of course any suggestion is welcome.
Planning time is never wasted. You always take away something useful.
Congrats on the new "Land Grant"! We'll all be looking for the new and improved layout soon. In the mean time, don't forget what you've already learned and incorporate that into the new design. And keep reading those links that everyone gave you.
See you soon!