A newbies layout question

[Anonymous]

Greetings..
I am new to this and have been enjoying reading all the advice from everyone, but I still have a question that's not been touched on.
I have a new home (in Hemet, Calif) which has a 8x30 room where I can put a layout in the end. I was thinking of an 8x8 but realized it would be very difficult to reach anything on the back for building or repairs, or anything....my arms aren't that long!
I'm thinking of buying the book from Kalmbach ....seems it was something like "81 layout designs" or something like that.
I have been playing with full size trains most of my life, so I'm thinking I want to go HO on this. Thoughts and opinions are most welcome,
Abuelo..

[gderem]

An around the wall design might be better -- you could be more flexible for your size too.
I tried to draw it out below -- you would have return loops at each end. Offsetting the loops prevents them from interering with each other. The along the wall portion could be just 2 feet wide -- easily reachable with plenty of walking space in between.
8x8; 8x12; 8x16; 8x30[:D]
=========================================================
=...............========================================= . . . . . . =
=...............=. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .= . . . . . .=
=...............=. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .= . . . . . .=
=========. . . . . . . ======== . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .= . . . . . .=
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . =. . . . . . .=. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .= . . . . . .=
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = . . . . . . = . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = . . . . . .=
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = . . . . . . ========================== . . . . . . =
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . =========================================

I hope that helps you picture it.
btw: I'm quite the newbie too[#welcome]

[conrail92]

OR YOU COULD MAKE YOU SQUARE LIKE Ooriginaly planed but cut small acess holes in different locations

[jbloch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jbloch

Abuelo: Welcome! I'm also a newbie, have followed the forums for a couple of months and have several of the Kalmbach books, so I can give you a summary answer to your question. The book you're referring to is Linn Wescott"s 101 Track Plans--I actually plan on modifying one of the plans for my layout.

Distance from the edge of the table is important; there are a couple plans in Wescott's book that would have longest access to the center of the table/layout greater than 3 feet, but most are at or less that three feet. This has come up on another thread: one experienced modeler reccommends usually avoiding reaches greater than 24 inches and at the most 30 inches. I plan on doing a 6 X 12 foot table, which would involve a 36 inch max. reach, but as the only track that I'll have close in that area is a connecting/reverse loop, I plan on doing that.

Height of your table also makes a difference--if your table is taller, you'll not be able to reach as far.

To really answer your question, you're probably going to have trouble reaching the inside areas on a 8 X 8 plan. If you want to do it in that area, considerations would be to leave an end open (i.e. in a U shape) or put an access hatch in the middle.

Some have felt that Wescott's book is a bit dated; having been out of the hobby for a long time I found it helpful and it can give you a lot of ideas even if you don't use any of his plans completely.

gderem mentions another alternative-there are many! I wanted a table top format and the ability to run loops in addition to connecting to sides on the inside. In addition, I want broad curves (doubt I'll ever want to have a 2-8-8-2) but want the flexiblity for longer locos, passenger cars, etc. in the future if I decide that's what I want.

So I'd recc. you get Westcott's book along with some others to give you a variety of ideas.

Good luck!

Jim

[Anonymous]

I have been getting a lot of help at
http://layoutparty.disisus.com/index.php
Check it out, they have many layout plans for different size areas

Hope it helps
Jeff

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Abuelo;

I have a layout that's 7'8" wide, 10' long on the left side and 6'5" on the right side. I knew there would be times when I would have to get to the far side so I made two holes I could come up through. The one on the left side is 2'6" x 2'6" and is a lift out portion. The hole on the right side is 1'9" x 2'7" and is a drop out portion. The lift out panel is supported by 3 peices of 2x4 along the sides. The portion on the right is held in place underneath by 3 sliding locks, barrel locks I think they're called. This makes it fairly easy to get to where I need to be without sacrificing space for walk through areas.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gderem

An around the wall design might be better -- you could be more flexible for your size too....8x8; 8x12; 8x16; 8x30

That is an excellent idea. However I don't see how one could get an 8x8 out of it in HO. With 18" radius curves on the island it seems 8x10 would be the smallest in that configuration. That would be a two foot isle between the two loop areas.

[CSXFan]

I wouldn't go with 18" curves if you plan on running anything other than B-B locomotives and short rolling stock. I have 18" curves and they have given me nothing but trouble with my larger locomotives.

[Anonymous]

A point to point shelf layout would be a pretty good option for your room. If you can use all 30 feet along both walls you could get close to 68 feet of mainline running. Read some of Dave Barrows articles in the Model Railroader special issues. He uses a domino concept to model an industrial switching district. You can pack lots of realistic operation in a layout that is only 2 or 2 1/2 feet wide. And you don't have to make your layout as sparse as Barrow's minimalism.

[Anonymous]

A great big thank you to all of you who jumped in. I had thought of the access holes idea but I'm getting up there and would probably get stuck under there and not be able to get out again. My knees don't bend so good anymore :) I do very much like the idea of a U shape, but then I come up with the question that followed. How much room do I need to make a turnabout for the tracks to come back around again? I am a fan of AT&SF,BN,GN, and BNSF so I will be using locos that are that size and the longest car would be a AT&SF passenger car. I wasn't too sure what Texas Zepher and CSX fan meant by a 18" curve. ??
Thanks so much. abuelo

[Anonymous]

Abuelo,

If you wi***o run passenger trains and six axle diesel locomotives you will need at least a 25 inch radius curve for it to look realistic. The closer you get to a 30 or 32 inch radius curve the better. The equipment, type of trains you wi***o run and the size of your room are somewhat limiting. However, hidden dogbone style return loops inside a mountain or underneath an urban station might allow you to turn your trains around with 22 inch radius curves or, with some brands, 18 inch curves.

Another option might be hidden track behind some buildings that could serve as a staging area for your through freight and passenger trains. It would make for an interesting operating section as local freights drill various industries but must get out ot the way for a through train.

[Anonymous]

Abuelo, all the suggestions so far are excellent. However, to answer your question in other terms here is what I have always done. I try to limit my reaching distance to about 30 inches from the edge of the layout where I stand for purposes of rescuing rolling stock. In areas where things don't move (like structures or mountains) I will allow a 36 inch reach. Anything larger, for me, requires an access hatch or a rethink on the track plan.

Best of luck and enjoyment,

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Abuelo
I wasn't too sure what Texas Zepher and CSX fan meant by a 18" curve. ??

Sorry we are so used to the terminology we assume everyone knows what we are talking about. Model railroad curves are measured by a line from the center of the circle to the center of the track. In this case a track of 18" radius curves would make a circle that is 36" around, measured at the center of the track. So a few more inches are needed for a table or benchwork to put a circle of that size of track on.

QUOTE: I come up with the question that followed. How much room do I need to make a turnabout for the tracks to come back around again?

I only mentioned 18" radius because it has been the "standard" trainset size of circle for years and years. The biggest radius one can fit on a 4 foot wide bench is 22". In an 8 foot area, if one shrinks the shelf to 1 foot and the isle to 2 feet that leaves 5 feet for curves. I believe one could fit a 28" radius curve in that much space.

QUOTE: I am a fan of AT&SF,BN,GN, and BNSF so I will be using locos that are that size and the longest car would be a AT&SF passenger car.

That covers a lot of locomotives from tiny to monsterous. As for the passenger car it depends on the exact model. There are cars like Athearn that are shorter than the real ones just so they can fit around the tight corners of a model railroad. There is a brand called Rivarossi or IHC that make cars of the right length, that have specially pivoted wheels and couplers so they can negotiate the smaller corners. Then there are cars like the Walthers Brand that have proper wheels and couplers but they require curves of at least 24" radius to run properly. The general rule is that the wider the radius the better. This is true for both looks and operationally.

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: I had thought of the access holes idea but I'm getting up there and would probably get stuck under there and not be able to get out again. My knees don't bend so good anymore :) I do very much like the idea of a U shape, but then I come up with the question that followed. How much room do I need to make a turnabout for the tracks to come back around again?

I understand your concerns about ducking under for access. I have the same problem these days. If I understand your original post, while the room is 30 x 8, you only have one end of it available for a layout.

I know you said you were thinking about HO, but given the constraints of trying to fit a U shaped layout into an 8' wide room you might want to consider looking at N scale.

Regards

Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffrey-wimberly

Abuelo;

I have a layout that's 7'8" wide, 10' long on the left side and 6'5" on the right side. I knew there would be times when I would have to get to the far side so I made two holes I could come up through. The one on the left side is 2'6" x 2'6" and is a lift out portion. The hole on the right side is 1'9" x 2'7" and is a drop out portion. The lift out panel is supported by 3 peices of 2x4 along the sides. The portion on the right is held in place underneath by 3 sliding locks, barrel locks I think they're called. This makes it fairly easy to get to where I need to be without sacrificing space for walk through areas.

I have an HO layout 10' by 5' "L" shaped with a 5' x 5' extension. Its on casters so I can move it away from the wall to work from the other side. I went a little crazy with my subterrain and ended up building a mountain/tunnel (on the side against the wall) that reaches over two feet high, starts at the top of the curve on the left end and travels around about a total of 6 or more feet. Oh, and it covers 4 tracks, one which exits from the middle of the structure. To build it I had to remove all my track and climb on the table. Now in order to re install the track (and service it), and fini***he waterfall, stream etc... I am going to have to cut an access hole in the middle of the layout (or climb on track). Your post caught my eye because of the barrel bolts. I was going to put the 2x4's and hide handels to lift the section out. What is the purpose of them? Also, is there a good way to hide the cut lines and still make it easily moveable?

Thanks, Mike

[WEUSANDCORR]

G'day abuelo from Australia, I built the onlky 10 X 8 in 101 trackplans which I then added a 10 X 18" shelf to the top of it Its walk in with lift up and 22" min curves and I run AC4400 GE's Athearn BB and Kato even have an SD70M Genesis running on it with no probs .Sure they overhang a bit but I put up with that. Something like this

I've been adding more since these pics but you get the Idea like another loop around the room and another connection on the bottom to give continuous running.
Hope this helps Les

[Agamemnon]

I like that track, because it reminds me of the 4' by 8' I had together with my Dad when I was a boy. A lot of exposed wood construction, very tightly run tracks, great fun. I'm wanting to build something similar again, although without my Dad this time (I lost him to that most insidious of hobbies... GOLF).

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I have my three barrel locks on the underside of the layout so I can crawl under, slide the locks open and gently drop the panel out and set it aside. I then have the problem of getting 235 pound body through the opening. I am permanently disabled and can't walk well so squating and bending is a bit of a chore, but I manage by having gate handles on the underside of the layout that I can pull myself up with. Lot's easier. I'm going to do the same with other other hole. I originally built the layout about 8 or 9 years ago, when I could walk without a problem. Installing casters on the is not an option because it's located in a 25 foot trailer that I live in. There's no room for it to move anywhere. Also, it's bolted to the walls, sure simplified the benchwork.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffrey-wimberly

I have my three barrel locks on the underside of the layout so I can crawl under, slide the locks open and gently drop the panel out and set it aside. I then have the problem of getting 235 pound body through the opening. I am permanently disabled and can't walk well so squating and bending is a bit of a chore, but I manage by having gate handles on the underside of the layout that I can pull myself up with. Lot's easier. I'm going to do the same with other other hole. I originally built the layout about 8 or 9 years ago, when I could walk without a problem. Installing casters on the is not an option because it's located in a 25 foot trailer that I live in. There's no room for it to move anywhere. Also, it's bolted to the walls, sure simplified the benchwork.

I like the handles idea. I'm disabled for about a year and over 300 lbs. I was thinking of a "pull off" section, rather than drop down. I think it would be easier for me if the section was out of the way when I try to pop out of the "train cake"!

mike