Turnouts…Is one brand better to use than another?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeorge

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeorge

Is there a way to wire in a Turn out so that way it was on a switch well more like a old record player type switch {the type to life the arm up and down} so that the turnout switches as you move the switch.
But not fast but like as you move the switch it moves the turn out moves so in theory you could set the turn out in the middle and derail if you wanted to...

A ground throw or an automoble choke cable / lawnmower throttle cable would do it.

so would piano wire and Pullies anyone make an electric resistor type switch of this?

My bad.

I thought by the way you answered claycts that maybe you were looking for a mechanical rather then an electrical way to throw the points.

Maybe something with a reostat?

Its all good ... I'll probably just go with something slo-mo

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeorge

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeorge

Is there a way to wire in a Turn out so that way it was on a switch well more like a old record player type switch {the type to life the arm up and down} so that the turnout switches as you move the switch.
But not fast but like as you move the switch it moves the turn out moves so in theory you could set the turn out in the middle and derail if you wanted to...

A ground throw or an automoble choke cable / lawnmower throttle cable would do it.

so would piano wire and Pullies anyone make an electric resistor type switch of this?

My bad.

I thought by the way you answered claycts that maybe you were looking for a mechanical rather then an electrical way to throw the points.

Maybe something with a reostat?

[tomikawaTT]

Almost any "numbered" commercial turnout can be expected to give adequate service if laid carefully. The same cannot be said for trainset turnouts, which frequently are even sharper than they seem. Long-wheelbase locos and modern freight cars don't like them.

Older Shinohara turnouts used to have an issue with the gauge being tight through the points. I don't know if that has been cured; I haven't bought a turnout for years. No matter what brand you use, all the same manufacturer or mix-and-match, check everything with an NMRA or equivalent track gauge.

As for the automotive analogy in earlier posts to this thread, the turnouts I am using are NASCAR racers - look like stock, but are actually hand-built to suit the specific operating conditions expected (and far more durable than showroom stock machinery.)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeorge

Is there a way to wire in a Turn out so that way it was on a switch well more like a old record player type switch {the type to life the arm up and down} so that the turnout switches as you move the switch.
But not fast but like as you move the switch it moves the turn out moves so in theory you could set the turn out in the middle and derail if you wanted to...

A ground throw or an automoble choke cable / lawnmower throttle cable would do it.

so would piano wire and Pullies anyone make an electric resistor type switch of this?

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeorge

Is there a way to wire in a Turn out so that way it was on a switch well more like a old record player type switch {the type to life the arm up and down} so that the turnout switches as you move the switch.
But not fast but like as you move the switch it moves the turn out moves so in theory you could set the turn out in the middle and derail if you wanted to...

A ground throw or an automoble choke cable / lawnmower throttle cable would do it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

Yes, just get an old style Atlas, the points come loose and there is your derailment.
This only happens when you BEST engine is coming into the switch and at that switch a derailment will cause it to hit the floor. Other than that time it will work just fine:
Murphy's RR Law #1[:D]

I dont want it for the derailments I want it for the realistic throw of the switch dont know why just want it to be more then just a toggle switch...if you know what I mean

[HarryHotspur]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

They all fit under Jaguar, Many companies in the mix, a tinerers delight and the "PRINCE OF DARKNESS" Lucas is luking to strike when you have the most important people to see it.
Our "E" type is that car!!!

That's funny. I suppose you've heard the old joke:

"Why do the British drink warm beer?"

"Because they all have Lucas refrigerators."

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeorge

Is there a way to wire in a Turn out so that way it was on a switch well more like a old record player type switch {the type to life the arm up and down} so that the turnout switches as you move the switch.
But not fast but like as you move the switch it moves the turn out moves so in theory you could set the turn out in the middle and derail if you wanted to...

Yes, just get an old style Atlas, the points come loose and there is your derailment.
This only happens when you BEST engine is coming into the switch and at that switch a derailment will cause it to hit the floor. Other than that time it will work just fine:
Murphy's RR Law #1[:D]

[Anonymous]

Is there a way to wire in a Turn out so that way it was on a switch well more like a old record player type switch {the type to life the arm up and down} so that the turnout switches as you move the switch.
But not fast but like as you move the switch it moves the turn out moves so in theory you could set the turn out in the middle and derail if you wanted to...

[pcarrell]

Discussing turnouts always turns into a passionate discussion.

[Bill54]

Thanks for all the great information. Seems to be lots of different opinions based on whether or not older trains are being used and if the frogs will be powered or not. I'll probably buy a couple each of the more popular turnouts and see which ones work better in my situation.

Thanks,[:)]
Bill

[Anonymous]

I use ME and Shinohara products in code 70. ME only has flex and No. 6 turnouts in code 70 so if you want other frog sizes or other stuff such as wyes and curved turnouts it is Shinohara or other manufacturers including Peco (code 75, but it works), Railway Engineering and BK enterprises.

[Anonymous]

What about code 70, which,shinohara or micro-engineering are better? They're both close in price, but I'm looking for reliable turnouts

[Anonymous]

Dan,

Others will disagree, but I would put Walthers/shinohara as a mid-line reliable switch. They look a little heavy, but function very well.

[dhilyer]

Ok, all I want to know is which one is the Ford. That's the one I want, they'll last forever. Heck, Ford made tractors 40-50 years ago and most are still running. I don't recall GM making a tractor. lol.

Good info guys. Keep it up, I'm learning a great deal here.

[Anonymous]

Bill,

I pretty much agree with Claycts assesment of switches. I prize looks and reliability. I have installed lots ME with no problems at all. Many people use crash and banger switch machines with these switches and they are too delicate for that. Those who use slow motion stall motors have better luck with ME. I have installed stops on my motors to limit the pressure exerted on the points in stall postion. If you wire the switches for DCC or use the DCC friendly type, you don't have to have tons of pressure holding the points against the stock rail because electrical contact is a non-issue. I use switchmaster motors. Yes they are more expensive, but it looks and works great. I bottom feed on Ebay anbd have picked up lots of deals on turnouts there. The problem with ME is that there is not a lot of variety. I end up using Walthers for curved turnouts and wyes...

I also have some Walthers Shinohara....Pretty good as well. I have Peco code 100 in staging........Bullet proof. The Atlas stuff doesn't pass the looks test (and other issues) and Peco code 83 has quality issues with the points in their code 83 line (run a cab forward through the diverging route and watch it jump as the point rails roll slightly under the weight).

I would add another higher category of turnouts and that would be Railway engineering, BK enterprises and the old Darr brand. These are pre-built switches (rails only, no ties) that you spike down to ties that you glue down on the roadbed. Halfway between ready made and scratchbuilding. These require more work, but they operate and look great. Everone has different opinions about turnouts. You don't have to use just one type...I have used at least five different brands of turnouts on the new layout so far and have had very few problems with any of them.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

They all fit under Jaguar, Many companies in the mix, a tinerers delight and the "PRINCE OF DARKNESS" Lucas is luking to strike when you have the most important people to see it.
Our "E" type is that car!!!

I dunno... With three "cats" in our garage, I'll admit to loving Jags, but they take a lot more fiddling and tinkering than any switch I've ever used.

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

Mr Carrell I would say that the Atlas Snap switch is more of a Hugo, I gets you where you want, you are sore from the trip (looks) and your passengers are cramped (anything othere than an 0-4-0 is not happy with them). LOL
Take Care
A Car guy

You're right of course![:D]

I meant the custom line turnouts. I don't even consider the snap line real cars![;)]

WOW, this car analogy thing is quickly getting out of control!

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to start a THING!

[claycts]

They all fit under Jaguar, Many companies in the mix, a tinerers delight and the "PRINCE OF DARKNESS" Lucas is luking to strike when you have the most important people to see it.
Our "E" type is that car!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

Mr Carrell I would say that the Atlas Snap switch is more of a Hugo, I gets you where you want, you are sore from the trip (looks) and your passengers are cramped (anything othere than an 0-4-0 is not happy with them). LOL
Take Care
A Car guy

Yes, you must absolutely distinguish between Atlas snap-switches and customline switches. Totally different animals. There are even differences between customline code-100 and code-83 switches.

If we think of Atlas as the "GM" of turnouts, I'd say this is a good analogy:

Atlas snap-switch: Geo
Atlas customline code 100: Chevy
Atlas customline code 83: Buick

Now, I would, myself, tend to say Walthers = Mercury in this context. Why? I consider Mercury and Buick to be similar in nature, just from different companies. Each has it's little variances and things it's notable for, but at the end of the day I don't see much quantitative difference, personally.

I'll call Peco your "Mini Cooper" of switches. Not that it's small, but because it's an import, it's generally well regarded and well built, and it's unique. They have the whole "spring-loaded" thing going on, and like mini-cooper, part of the allure is simply that they are distinctly different from the standard. And if they break, you're screwed.

Micro Engineering can be your Benz, BMW, Audi, or luxury import of choice. They have a rabidly loyal following, they are definitely high quality, you pay for that quality, and they do have some issues too. They perhaps need more time with the "mechanic" than the Chevy does...

[claycts]

Mr Carrell I would say that the Atlas Snap switch is more of a Hugo, I gets you where you want, you are sore from the trip (looks) and your passengers are cramped (anything othere than an 0-4-0 is not happy with them). LOL
Take Care
A Car guy

[jjbmish]

I am using the atlas code 83 flex track with Walthers Turnouts. So far I have had very good luck with this combination. I looked at the atlas switches, but I didn't care for the blackened frog. I have a couple of them installed and they work well so it's mainly a visual thing. Probably no so much of an issue after I weather my track. But the walthers turnouts can be hard to find sometimes.

John

[ramoutandabout]

ohhhh yes maybe i should add im going dcc

thanks again guyes

[ramoutandabout]

ohhhh yes maybe i should add im going dcc

thanks again guyes

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ramoutandabout

well darn no im confused i was going to run atlas flex code 83 with walthers switches , but maybe i need to think about atlas custom switches help[banghead]

The custom turnouts are much nicer then the snap ones. Think of them as the "Chevy's" of the turnouts. They'll certainly get the job done and they're tough as nails. The Walthers ones that I've seen seem to be more of a "Pontiac". It's a Chevy thats gussied up a bit. Your Micro Engineering and Peco are more of the "Caddilac's".

Now if you're a car buff and I've offended you in some way, I'm sorry. Please don't flame me or anything. I love cars as much as the next guy and I've onwed and loved quite a few of each of the brands mentioned. My personal favorite out of these brands was a certain Pontiac. I know the history and all. I know that there are many differences between a Chevy, a Pontiac, and a Caddy. I simply used this as a demonstration tool.

[ramoutandabout]

well darn know im confused i was going to run atlas flex code 83 with walthers switches , but maybe i need to think about atlas custom switches help[banghead]

[MisterBeasley]

I bought mostly Atlas turnouts when I started my layout a little less than a year ago. They are inexpensive, and I've had no problems with them. Mostly, though, I bought the snap-switches and now I've discovered that I really hate the look of their above-board switch machines. They make an under-table model, but that adds extra cost, and would be very difficult to install with my 2-inch foam table construction. Besides, you can't hand-throw the Atlas under-table machines.

Instead, I'm now using Peco for all my future turnouts. Their switch machines mount directly to the underside of the turnout, so there are no alignment problems, and installing them is much easier. Peco also makes curve-on-curve, short-Y and 3-way turnouts which solve some tricky track geometry problems, and are also visually interesting. Peco switch machines are twin-coil, like Atlas. I've found that they need more of a "kick" to operate than the Atlas machines, possibly to overcome the force of the spring. For that reason, I've installed a capacitive discharge circuit for my switch machines.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

After working with and setting up 120 turnouts this is what was found:
Best to worst in order (we bought at least 5 of each for testing)
1. Micro Engineering , Very consistant from piece to piece. Hard to get
2. Walthers (this is what we went with) Easy to power frogs and few problems
3. Peco, did not like the snap action or the basic design (others will disagree I am sure)
4. Atlas, HARD to power the frogs, half of them need bench work due to points or loose frogs. (gave away 20 #4 to a club)
We are using Atlas code 83 flex track which is .012 higher than the Walthers, we filled the difference and no problem
This is the results of 6 people trying to help build the railroad at my house.

Foot note on the Atlas, the depth of the wheel flange on the frogs was all over the place with most being to shallow for the older wheel flanges. The #8 Mark IV was the best they had to offer with the #4 the not so good offering.

Two things:

1) In my prior post I probably should have noted that I use #6 on the mainline and passenger station, and #4 in the classification yard and branchlines.

2) Oddly enough, my order of preference is largely the reverse of claycts. Living proof that YMMV... So my order, best to worst...

I'd put Atlas first. I've used Atlas customline switches for years with nary a problem. In all fairness, I should point out that I don't run any older motive power or rolling stock, so don't have any issue with deep wheel flanges. I also don't power my frogs, so that's not an issue... My smallest loco is an 0-6-0 with all-wheel pickup, which runs through them with impunity. Again, the fact that I don't have any older equipment (long story... basement flood...) probably makes this less of any issue for me than for some. (I'll admit they are a PITA to do if you must, that much is true). I've distinctly NOT had problems with loose points, out of gauge or any other "fundamentals". Most importantly, they hold up. Month after month, year after year. I frequently see the word "bulletproof" used to describe them, and I tend to agree.

Next Walthers. They're good stuff. I find them about the same as the Atlas, but more expensive. Also, while claycts says Peco are hard to get (and they are, a bit), I find Walthers VERY hard to get. Not hard to get _any_ of them, but hard to get what you need in a timely way. First there's no #6 left to be had... then about the time those start showing up, #6 rights get rare... Higher frog numbers are even worse...

Peco. I dislike the snap action, since I use tortoises and I have to yank the dang springs out anyhow. It's a nice feature if you want to use the 0-5-0 switching technique (your fingers). I've found them a little variable in gauge through the diverging track, about 25% of them needing benchwork to correct.

Last, Micro Engineering. They're quite consistent as clay has noted. When new, they're certainly quality stuff (and you pay for it). But they didn't stand the test of time with me. After 2-3 years, I've found them very delicate. They tend to get 'wobbly' over time, and get messed up rather easily during benchwork to address any issues.

I did use some Kato during a foray into N scale, but really didn't stay with it enough or use them long enough to comment.

[claycts]

After working with and setting up 120 turnouts this is what was found:
Best to worst in order (we bought at least 5 of each for testing)
1. Micro Engineering , Very consistant from piece to piece. Hard to get
2. Walthers (this is what we went with) Easy to power frogs and few problems
3. Peco, did not like the snap action or the basic design (others will disagree I am sure)
4. Atlas, HARD to power the frogs, half of them need bench work due to points or loose frogs. (gave away 20 #4 to a club)
We are using Atlas code 83 flex track which is .012 higher than the Walthers, we filled the difference and no problem
This is the results of 6 people trying to help build the railroad at my house.

Foot note on the Atlas, the depth of the wheel flange on the frogs was all over the place with most being to shallow for the older wheel flanges. The #8 Mark IV was the best they had to offer with the #4 the not so good offering.