Another Track planning Newbie

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
[What I'm looking at is a large 20'x19' space, HO scale. AT&SF line, set in and around 1954, ... The Line will be those portions of the AT&SF line that ran near or by Route 66 which is the basis of the layout.. Running the Super Chief and also AT&SF freight.. going for somewhere between Prototypical and Imaginered.. with an idea of doing high compression scenrery to try and show a little of the 4 states involved (Calf., Arizona, N.M. and TX)

Ok, here is an article set in Oklahoma but is typical Santa Fe style trackage.
Dave Kampsnider's Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe
Model Railroading, June 2004 page 38

Also of this 20x19 space where are the doord and windows? Based on some other people's comments I have an idea that would give you up to eight great "scenes". But the door and window locations will greatly determine if it can be done or not.

The 20x19 space is the main Garage itself it is ringed by a 3' concrete 'riser' on two sides, a builtin workbench, washer and dryer, and shelve sits on that riser... the door to the house is also on that riser as is the only window in the room.. so the 20x19 space is completly free as long as I leave myself some space to get around it etc.

Thanks for all the help.

Peace.

Coyote

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
[What I'm looking at is a large 20'x19' space, HO scale. AT&SF line, set in and around 1954, ... The Line will be those portions of the AT&SF line that ran near or by Route 66 which is the basis of the layout.. Running the Super Chief and also AT&SF freight.. going for somewhere between Prototypical and Imaginered.. with an idea of doing high compression scenrery to try and show a little of the 4 states involved (Calf., Arizona, N.M. and TX)

Ok, here is an article set in Oklahoma but is typical Santa Fe style trackage.
Dave Kampsnider's Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe
Model Railroading, June 2004 page 38

Also of this 20x19 space where are the doors and windows? Based on some other people's comments I have an idea that would give you up to eight great "scenes". But the door and window locations will greatly determine if it can be done or not.

[railroadyoshi]

grandpacoyote,

ereimer had GREAT stuff in his lat post

My worry for the layout you r designing is that since you want your layout to follow Rout 66 and it is in the desert, going multiple times around one deck will be VERY unrealistic, more so than say a mountainius layout set in the woods[^]

[#ditto] about Pelle's layout
DEFINITLEY look over that layout
You seem to be in a similar situation in many respects.

Good luck[8D]

[rayhippard]

GRANDPACOYOTE,

I am about to start designing a layout for a 14' x 19' train room with one entrance door and no windows. Planned it this way and
have the room completely finished now including flat black painted ceiling, coved corners, painted masonite backdrops and flat
black painted masonite overhead valances to define layout outline and hide layout lighting. My plan is around the room but not
across the doorway. One peninsula juting out from beside the doorway into the center of the room. This gives me space on the
end of the peninsula for a helix to the hidden ( but accessible through black curtins ) lower level with double ended staging yard
connected to a second helix on the other side of the doorway. This will let me run trains in both directions without seeing the same train twice in one operating session. A view hiding backdrop down the center of the peinsula will let you follow your train and see
it in only one scene at a time. I will have a variety of scenes from big cities to open country to mountains. You may be able to adapt something similar for your larger space. I personnaly do not like the '" EXPOSED " multiple deck layouts because this usually
limmits decent scenery by lack of height and does not seem as realistic to look at when viewing a " scene " . Also, with my plan,
you look more realistic by having only one mainline running through each scene. With more room for industry tracks and scenery,
I believe this to be a more overall challenge to all of our modeling skills. I hope this gives you more food for thought. I also have
had to read TPfRO several times to get the gist of it and refer to the book as I design my track plan. Please keep us posted on your progress as this is one of the more interesting aspects of this forum to see how everyone is doing.

Ray ---- Great Northern fan.

[claycts]

I got a book, 101 trackplans and in there is a track plan for ElCajon. Plus many other good working plans. They are all SMALLER than your space but that is a good thing. If nothing else it is good reference material. My copy is so dog eared I am getting another.
George P.
Orange Park this week

[leighant]

A 20 x 19 foot room? I think of layout as linear track running through a scene. Such as an 18 inch shelf with track, a 3 feet aisle and another 18 shelf on the other side of the aisle. In a 20 foot room, you can have 3 aisle-and-track-on each-side combinations, each 6 feet 8 inches wide. (That makes each shelf 22 inches wide.) Suppose the aisle is S-shaped--starts in one corner of the room along one wall, makes a U turn at the end of the room and goes back through the middle of the room, then another U turn to end at the opposite corner from where it started. The track runs on a shelf generally 22 inches wide. The end curves on inside pninsulas may need a little more width to keep radius from being too tight, have to take that out of the shelf on opposite side or make aisle narrower just at that point. The track would go back and forth six times the length of the room. 19 feet x 6 = 114 feet plus a little extra on the ends. Background down peninsulas keeps you from seeing more than one route going past at any point. Like a map, right is always east, left is always west, regardless which way anything is in the original room.

This is the concept behind David Barrow's older layouts. Santa Fe in West Texas. See some of his articles such as

article _Model Railroader_ Feb75
radio control throttle related to track plan, _RMC_ Dec78 p.85
article RR Mod Craftsman Nov79 p.78
passenger operations 50s, Mod RRer Mar80 p.62
Expanding the Cat Mtn, Mod RRer, Aug79 p.60
Rebuilding & Updating, Mod RRer, May84 p.66
"Today's Cat Mtn" Great Mod RRs 92 p.26
yard throat design, Summit & Mesa _Mod RR Planning 97_ p.84
"25 Years on the Cat Mtn" _ModRRer_ Sep99 p.56

[ereimer]

QUOTE: I bought "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" and Im about 4/5ths through it although it makes me feel like I should read it about 3 more time

that sounds about right . TPfRO is the condensed knowledge of the master trackplanner's experience of many many years . i'd be very impressed by anyone who could read that book once and come up with a good trackplan

QUOTE: Going to show my ignorance here, which is easy for me to do but what exactly do you mean by "a twice (or three times) around", Im not sure I follow.

that means your track runs 2 or 3 times around the room before getting back to the starting point . it's a way of adding length to your main line without going to a multilevel design . it's disadvantage is you often see several tracks crossing an area that would realistically only have a single track

QUOTE: Don Janes has used some of these tricks in his layout, published in one of the MR special editions

i found don's layout in the 2001 issue of Great Model Railroads , he managed to squeeze a three times around plan with a decent sized yard and lots of switching areas into a 13' x 20' space . very nice track plan , but it does have areas with very high track density , not realistic for the areas you're thinking of modelling , but certainly worth having a look at

now we get to one of my personal favorite trackplans , pelle soeborg's daneville subdivision in the march 2005 model railroader . it's a twice around with a large staging yard and 3 switching areas , that when yo uexpand the plan to fit your space could become 5 areas by adding a couple of industries at the 'north' and 'south' ends of the room (you'll see what i mean if you look at the plan) . also he depicts a setting similar to what you want to do so it should be a good article for you . AND it's set in the desert and pelle does another article in the april issue demonstrating his scenery techniques
[:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Medina1128

I downloaded RTS (Right Track System) from http://www.atlasrr.com (it's free). And I played around with it until I had what I wanted. Granted, the maximum radius for their library is 24", but with a little practice, it's fairly easy to insert a wider radius curve using flextrack. The program is real easy to use, you only need one window open and you waste a lot less paper.

Hi Medina,

Yes! I got RTS about 2 months ago when this 'crazy' idea started taking root, love that program its god send.

Thanks for the input.[tup]

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I couldn't agree more with the above. My way of looking at it is this: if you have had it up the the eyeballs trying to come up with your own plan, then go to someon else's. Why reinvent the wheel if it is going to be such a chore for you, and if you feel you run the risk of building something that ends up second-rate if you presist?

I went throught that, and my layout is self-rated at three stars out of five. Not bad for a first one, but hardly a keeper. Still, I wanted to design my own...and darned if I didn't get it. [%-)]

If you are hell-bent on doing it all yourself, Coyote, then welcome to the club of the determined. But as the others have stated, maybe it is time to put pencil to paper with a list of will-haves, a list of really-great-to-haves, and a list of will-fit-it-in-to-my-next-layout.

Keep your initial plan simple. Identify two will-haves, and build a track plan. Then add another item, and play with the plan. VERY IMPORTANT- use all of your available space each time you do this. Corner-to-corner; hills, water courses, bridges, turnouts.

You will eventually have the 'good-enough' solution when you jump up and run to She to show her that you have it at last. Get material and hammer...[:D]

Thanks selector, you always have clear and finely put advice I appreciate it all, its all ingrediants for the gumbo pot, throw it all in and let it cook in my head and something good will come of it.

I agree with you 100% on the re-invention of the wheel, I dont mind using something someone else has has the skill and creativity to make before me, assuming its open for anyone to use. I think I'd prefer to go with something trusted and maybe just add a few of my own touches here and there since I admit freely I am in the "club of the determined" but I have just enough wisdom to learn from otehrs first.. Although I'm sure the Ol would disagree LOL.. Don't even ask her about a certain plumbling incident some years back.. LOL [;)]

Thanks for the great input.

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

Coyote...

While 20x19 is a great space, and while you can double or triple-deck your layout to gain maximum advantage, modelling 4 states even with selective compression will be a challenge.

Take a look at specific locations along the line. If you are into operations, you'll want to focus on the industries and other opportunities for ops that interest you. Create a series of "scenes" from along the line that really appeal to you. This may require more research...!

Once you have the "destinations" set, then you can begin to string them together with the scenes from (up to) the 4 states that you want to model - a famous cut, bridge, etc.

If you really want to try to make the distances feel big, but do not want to have to build huge amounts of benchwork, try a twice (or three times) around. Put one or two towns on each loop. Disguise the "repetition" by having the track pass towns on a different elevation, or in a tunnel, or hidden behind a backdrop some of the time. (you will need some tricks like this, as once around a 20x19 room is really only about one scale mile). Don Janes has used some of these tricks in his layout, published in one of the MR special editions (Great Model Railroads or Model Railroad Planning) a few years ago. Very effective.

Good luck with your planning!

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for all the excellant advice it is great help and helped put my mind in a better direction, I think.

Going to show my ignorance here, which is easy for me to do [;)] but what exactly do you mean by "a twice (or three times) around", Im not sure I follow.

Thanks again.

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Hi,
I know how you feel. What would you like to see in a layout? What are your limitations besides space? Answering these two question will go a long way to getting you started. What types of things interest you? Scenery? Operations? Switching? Yard work? Do you like operating alone or with other people?

Although it is not the easiest book to read "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" is a good place to start. Since you have era and prototype in mind, the next step is identifying the type of layout you want and the features you want to include. In the book you will learn about schematics and the schematics will go a long way in determining the form the layout takes.

Howdy SpaceMouse.

I'm very intrested in Scenery since Im trying to capture not just the fun Rail but also the fun of Route 66 running by it, so Structures and Scenery are my main instrests, although, the Ol is a little more intrested in Operation... the layout will primarily be for the Ol and myself as we dont know anyone in around us that is into MRing.

Yes its not an easy read at all! LOL I bought "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" and Im about 4/5ths through it although it makes me feel like I should read it about 3 more time. *chuckles* So far its left me a bit boggled.

Thanks for the info SpaceMouse every bit is great help.

Peace.

Coyote

[Medina1128]

I downloaded RTS (Right Track System) from http://www.atlasrr.com (it's free). And I played around with it until I had what I wanted. Granted, the maximum radius for their library is 24", but with a little practice, it's fairly easy to insert a wider radius curve using flextrack. The program is real easy to use, you only need one window open and you waste a lot less paper.

[selector]

I couldn't agree more with the above. My way of looking at it is this: if you have had it up the the eyeballs trying to come up with your own plan, then go to someon else's. Why reinvent the wheel if it is going to be such a chore for you, and if you feel you run the risk of building something that ends up second-rate if you presist?

I went throught that, and my layout is self-rated at three stars out of five. Not bad for a first one, but hardly a keeper. Still, I wanted to design my own...and darned if I didn't get it. [%-)]

If you are hell-bent on doing it all yourself, Coyote, then welcome to the club of the determined. But as the others have stated, maybe it is time to put pencil to paper with a list of will-haves, a list of really-great-to-haves, and a list of will-fit-it-in-to-my-next-layout.

Keep your initial plan simple. Identify two will-haves, and build a track plan. Then add another item, and play with the plan. VERY IMPORTANT- use all of your available space each time you do this. Corner-to-corner; hills, water courses, bridges, turnouts.

You will eventually have the 'good-enough' solution when you jump up and run to She to show her that you have it at last. Get material and hammer...[:D]

[Anonymous]

Coyote...

While 20x19 is a great space, and while you can double or triple-deck your layout to gain maximum advantage, modelling 4 states even with selective compression will be a challenge.

Take a look at specific locations along the line. If you are into operations, you'll want to focus on the industries and other opportunities for ops that interest you. Create a series of "scenes" from along the line that really appeal to you. This may require more research...!

Once you have the "destinations" set, then you can begin to string them together with the scenes from (up to) the 4 states that you want to model - a famous cut, bridge, etc.

If you really want to try to make the distances feel big, but do not want to have to build huge amounts of benchwork, try a twice (or three times) around. Put one or two towns on each loop. Disguise the "repetition" by having the track pass towns on a different elevation, or in a tunnel, or hidden behind a backdrop some of the time. (you will need some tricks like this, as once around a 20x19 room is really only about one scale mile). Don Janes has used some of these tricks in his layout, published in one of the MR special editions (Great Model Railroads or Model Railroad Planning) a few years ago. Very effective.

Good luck with your planning!

Andrew

[SpaceMouse]

Hi,

I know how you feel. What would you like to see in a layout? What are your limitations besides space? Answering these two question will go a long way to getting you started. What types of things interest you? Scenery? Operations? Switching? Yard work? Do you like operating alone or with other people?

Although it is not the easiest book to read "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" is a good place to start. Since you have era and prototype in mind, the next step is identifying the type of layout you want and the features you want to include. In the book you will learn about schematics and the schematics will go a long way in determining the form the layout takes.

[Anonymous]

I am sure you all are swamped by such questions so here is my opening apology for posting -yet- another. [;)]

But here we go... I am having a devil of a time coming up with any track plan at all, I'm completely lost on the whole operations idea and after several days now of banging my head on this thing Im still no where.

What I'm looking at is a large 20'x19' space, HO scale. AT&SF line, set in and around 1954, between California and Texas.. The Line will be those portions of the AT&SF line that ran near or by Route 66 which is the basis of the layout..
Running the Super Chief and also AT&SF freight.. going for somewhere between Prototypical and Imaginered.. with an idea of doing high compression scenrery to try and show a little of the 4 states involved (Calf., Arizona, N.M. and TX)

Now you'd think that being able to come up all that and set in such knowledge the old man would be able to draw up some track plan... you'd think [xx(]

yet here I am surrounded by crumpled up paper and far too many browser windows open on the computer and completly lost...

-Any- help would be greatly and enthusiasticly appreciated!

Peace.

Coyote