Carving

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

Jarrell I think maybe you are over thinking this a little(do'nt take offence please)
#1 do you have an old hacksaw blade?
#2 if so rap a little tape on some of it!
#3stack the foam up higher than the track
#4take the hacksaw on an angle and cut.
#5 a hacksaw blade will bend and you would be supprised at the out come.
#6 have fun that what it is all about is'nt it?
[2c]
I'am getting reday to start a new layout,Of all places in my master bedroom.After 40years the war department and I get along OK(sometimes)She ask me if her bother could come live with us for a while,so I gave up my train room.He is 57 and stated he will stay here tell he can draw SSI.(five years)So I did some measureing and came up with A 4'X14' space in the bedroom,corse have to move the bed a round some.I'am going to try a two peace layout,two 4'X5' or 4'X6' sections,the when I get my room back it will be easy to move[:-,][|(].After 50years on and off model railroading,I have tryed everything I think.So I'am following every thing you and every one talks about here,Hope I have my new Degital camera when I start this project.So can keep a record,I wish I had pictures of all of my layouts I've had! I could show you some things that worked and some that did't.one thing I'am sure of is I have never followed a disign to the "T" and have never used foam on plywood the everyone do'es now! I have worked with form for mountains,it works fine(a little messy).
[(-D][(-D][^][soapbox]
Just hang in there,and take your time,and have fun that is the name of the game is'nt!
Jim

See...! it's the simple solutions like that. My brain just doesn't work that way. My wife says I plan to much instead of just diving in and doing it. I think you have to be both ways, do some planing but dive in also. I'll try your method and see how it works on curves, hopefully it'll do fine.
Darn Jim, just how big IS your master bedroom anyway! [:0] Sounds like you could turn around a Mack truck in there and not hit the walls. My wife has me painting the outside foundation today and we have a low hedge that goes across the front. Talk about fun..[:(]
'Course I've got her out there helping me..[}:)]
Jarrell

Jarrell
The master bedroom is 14'X14' It will be a little tight around the end of the bed,But I can live with it,OBTW have fun on the hedges[:-,]
Jim

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12
the new arrangement showing temporary supports under it to find where the incline will end and darn it, it's right in the curve. No problem.

Those WS Inclines can flex, so you can add a curve to the bottom of it to allow your track to fit into the corner of your layout.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

Jarrell I think maybe you are over thinking this a little(do'nt take offence please)
#1 do you have an old hacksaw blade?
#2 if so rap a little tape on some of it!
#3stack the foam up higher than the track
#4take the hacksaw on an angle and cut.
#5 a hacksaw blade will bend and you would be supprised at the out come.
#6 have fun that what it is all about is'nt it?
[2c]
I'am getting reday to start a new layout,Of all places in my master bedroom.After 40years the war department and I get along OK(sometimes)She ask me if her bother could come live with us for a while,so I gave up my train room.He is 57 and stated he will stay here tell he can draw SSI.(five years)So I did some measureing and came up with A 4'X14' space in the bedroom,corse have to move the bed a round some.I'am going to try a two peace layout,two 4'X5' or 4'X6' sections,the when I get my room back it will be easy to move[:-,][|(].After 50years on and off model railroading,I have tryed everything I think.So I'am following every thing you and every one talks about here,Hope I have my new Degital camera when I start this project.So can keep a record,I wish I had pictures of all of my layouts I've had! I could show you some things that worked and some that did't.one thing I'am sure of is I have never followed a disign to the "T" and have never used foam on plywood the everyone do'es now! I have worked with form for mountains,it works fine(a little messy).
[(-D][(-D][^][soapbox]
Just hang in there,and take your time,and have fun that is the name of the game is'nt!
Jim

See...! it's the simple solutions like that. My brain just doesn't work that way. My wife says I plan to much instead of just diving in and doing it. I think you have to be both ways, do some planing but dive in also. I'll try your method and see how it works on curves, hopefully it'll do fine.
Darn Jim, just how big IS your master bedroom anyway! [:0] Sounds like you could turn around a Mack truck in there and not hit the walls. My wife has me painting the outside foundation today and we have a low hedge that goes across the front. Talk about fun..[:(]
'Course I've got her out there helping me..[}:)]
Jarrell

[oleirish]

Jarrell:here is some of my foam work,I've done some in the past but can't find the pictures.
Jim

[oleirish]

Jarrell I think maybe you are over thinking this a little(do'nt take offence please)
#1 do you have an old hacksaw blade?
#2 if so rap a little tape on some of it!
#3stack the foam up higher than the track
#4take the hacksaw on an angle and cut.
#5 a hacksaw blade will bend and you would be supprised at the out come.
#6 have fun that what it is all about is'nt it?
[2c]
I'am getting reday to start a new layout,Of all places in my master bedroom.After 40years the war department and I get along OK(sometimes)She ask me if her bother could come live with us for a while,so I gave up my train room.He is 57 and stated he will stay here tell he can draw SSI.(five years)So I did some measureing and came up with A 4'X14' space in the bedroom,corse have to move the bed a round some.I'am going to try a two peace layout,two 4'X5' or 4'X6' sections,the when I get my room back it will be easy to move[:-,][|(].After 50years on and off model railroading,I have tryed everything I think.So I'am following every thing you and every one talks about here,Hope I have my new Degital camera when I start this project.So can keep a record,I wish I had pictures of all of my layouts I've had! I could show you some things that worked and some that did't.one thing I'am sure of is I have never followed a disign to the "T" and have never used foam on plywood the everyone do'es now! I have worked with form for mountains,it works fine(a little messy).
[(-D][(-D][^][soapbox]
Just hang in there,and take your time,and have fun that is the name of the game is'nt!
Jim

[jacon12]

Is this a case for hydrocal soaked paper towels. The sides of the inclines are going to be difficult to disguise..

with pieces of foam because of the angle so I was thinking that maybe this is a place to use hydrocal. I've never done that method but I was thinking that all you would have to do would be to cut some irregular shaped pieces of foam and glue them down beside the riser. Then take the paper towels and start them right at the edge of the road bed and drape them over the said foam pieces and on down the (by then) sloped ridge, right on out to the edge of the roadbed of the mainline which will be roughly 2 to 3 inches away from the base of the ridge. If I meander the tracks on the ridge instead of having them straight, as in the drawing above, this method would probably be easiest.
The other method, not using the paper towels but using foam carved rocks and ridges to hide the stark white inclines, could be done but I think it would require a lot more calulations and fitting.
What do you think?
Jarrell

[jacon12]

Ray and P.Carrell, I'm still a ways away from glueing stuff down so maybe I or someone else can do that test.
Ray, thanks for the primer on soldering. I've just got to sit down and practice.. plain and simple.
Now if I could just get out of some of the things on this honey do list. I hate painting.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Jarrell, and Chip, I believe that we have learned to attend to our locos when they are powered up. After all, they make the whole layout come alive, and our hobby too. So, if we hear them, we want to attend to them (a little psychology lesson), much like we do when we hear our children cry. I, too, find that I don't appreciate the distraction when I am weathering or fiddling with track. I shut everything down unless I can manage them visually and dircectly.

Jarrell, you are taking this awfully well. I am relieved, honestly, that you have to back away for a couple of days because I am positive that you need it.

Take care.

Lol... are you afraid I may be going off the deep end down here in Georgia!! [:D]
Heck, I know I'm in the learning everything end of this hobby. The way I figure it I may even give advice to someone in... oh.. 3 or 4 years! I'm having fun with this and that is what counts most to me. I'm enjoying trying to figure things out with help from you guys. I get a kick out of something when it actually works and I did it. When I feel like I'm getting into overload mode I pull up a rolling desktype chair that puts my nose about track level and I watch the trains go around, all the while telling myself I oughta do something about that tank car with the horn/hook coupler on it (don't ya'll tell anybody I've got one).
No, I'm having too much fun learning this stuff and thankful I have teachers.
Jarrell

[pcarrell]

Hey Jarrell,

One more thing just popped into my head (it took a while to get in there). If you move those bottom tracks closer to the layout edge then you need to find a way to keep derails from taking the plunge into the "Great Canyon" below. I went to Wal Mart and in the craft dept. they have these 8 1/2 x 11 foam sheets in various colors for kids to make door hangers out of and stuff. They are pretty cheap and with some scissors and some push pins you can cut them into strips and stick them on the edge of the layout for now. If you accidentally lean on one, no big deal.[:D]

For a perminate solution I'd concider some rock outcroppings (they'll match the ones on the ridge), some old fencing with some boards missing, and some heavy vegitation. That should do the trick.

Just thinkin' out loud,

[pcarrell]

orsonroy,

Maybe the stuff I'm using is a little different formula but I've ripped up and reused track several times and it comes up real easy. [?] I'm using White Lightning brand clear silicone sealant. I don't know but maybe there is some difference between "sealant" and "caulk". The stuff was fully cured every time I took it up. It doesn't dry hard like the liquid nails stuff. It's kind of like rubber cement in many ways. It's a little more firm though, but not much. I haven't tried the latex caulk but I imagine it's about the same consistancy both dry and wet as the stuff I'm using. Maybe I just got lucky with this brand? I don't know, but I had no intention to mislead anyone.

Also, I tried the "top hat" pins and they were too short to hold. Maybe my radius was too tight (I tried it on a 17 1/2 radius curve). You can get away with slightly tighter curves in N scale.

BTW, good primer on soldering! Very concise and right on the money!


Jarrell,

I'd pay good attention to both my post and orsonroy's. This has been an area that causes a lot of confusion for the uninitiated, and even some of the old hats! Maybe a test is in order? A head to head comparison of brands on typical foam using typical track? Anyone up to the task? I'd do it but I don't have any old junk track to sacrifice or I would. It's kind of got my curiosity up now.

Anyways, in answer to your question, every three feet would work well. Some spread it out a little more but DCC can be sensitive so just to be on the safe side I went at 3 foot increments. I'd rather just do it once, ya know?

That brings up one last point. I must echo selectors words on this; "Jarrell, you are taking this awfully well. I am relieved, honestly, that you have to back away for a couple of days because I am positive that you need it."

Enjoy the time off! [8D]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

Ok, I need to learn to solder properly, buy some T pins to hold the track temporarily, get some clear silicone sealant, get the cork roadbed in place (on the incline), get some meat skewers (I think they would hold better than toothpicks, go ahead and buy the feeder wire (feeders every 3 feet or so?),
Jarrell

Hold it a sec, Jarrell! From my own foam layout building experience, DO NOT use silicone caulk to lay track! The stuff is a fantastic adhesive, meaning that you'll NEVER get the track up if you need to move it. I experimented with silicone caulk on my second level, and them had to move a switch and it's lead: I almost had to replace the foam underneath the track, and ended up destroying over eight feet of Peco code 75 flextrack! (Thankfully, I don't glue down my switches). I now only use latex caulk, which doesn't hold as well (but still well enough for track) and is more forgiving if I have to pry up track. I rerserve the silicone caulk for gluing foam to foam, and foam to wood.

You don't need to use T pins to hold the track down. Head over to your favorite office supply store and buy a big box of pushpins (the ones that look like top hats). They'll hold the track down just fine.

I use sish-ke-bab skewers all the time to hold pieces of foam together; they work great, and are reusable (and make pretty good pine tree trunks!)

22 AWG wire is good for the drop feeders, but use heavier gauge stuff (16-14 AWG) for the bus.

And soldering isn't all that challenging. Just get a 40 or 50 watt iron, some 60/40 rosin core flux, and some water-based paste flux, and you'll be all set. Line up everything before you work, add some flux, heat up the iron, add the iron to the rail and wire, and add the solder between the rail & wire (trying to not touch the iron's tip). Once the solder starts to flow, remove the iron and you're done. It takes about 3-5 seconds per feeder, total.

[selector]

Jarrell, and Chip, I believe that we have learned to attend to our locos when they are powered up. After all, they make the whole layout come alive, and our hobby too. So, if we hear them, we want to attend to them (a little psychology lesson), much like we do when we hear our children cry. I, too, find that I don't appreciate the distraction when I am weathering or fiddling with track. I shut everything down unless I can manage them visually and dircectly.

Jarrell, you are taking this awfully well. I am relieved, honestly, that you have to back away for a couple of days because I am positive that you need it.

Take care.

[jacon12]

Ok, I need to learn to solder properly, buy some T pins to hold the track temporarily, get some clear silicone sealant, get the cork roadbed in place (on the incline), get some meat skewers (I think they would hold better than toothpicks, go ahead and buy the feeder wire (feeders every 3 feet or so?),
Whew!
I had a Bassett Hound once named Hobo, long ears almost touching the ground. She was a good dog too.
Chip, I've gotten to where I simply hit the mute button when I'm trying to concentrate on something which now is most of the time. I have a small TV in the train room, I don't know why because when I really get into trying to figure something out I don't even notice its on.
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

When I'm working on something at the club, I hate all the noisy trains that run inches from me. However, if it's my train I'm running, it's gotta have sound.

If I'm working, yes it's a distraction.

[pcarrell]

Hey Jarrell,

Those WS risers can be held in place with toothpicks or even those wooden meat skewers, you know, like for shish-ka-bob. The beauty is you can leave these in and if you decide to move the incline you can reuse them. Oh, and they're cheap (a major plus!).

The first thing to do for smooth curves with flex track is to solder the stuff together. It's a little intimidating at first but it's not hard and you'll be a pro in no time. Just remember to use heat sinks, tin your tip and keep it clean on a wet sponge, and know that you don't have to have your iron on it for long to have it hot enough to take. This might also be a good time to solder on some power feeds as this track will be a little more difficult to work on once it's in place. Just add enough wire to get down through the scenery and a little to spare, say a foot or two.

As for laying the track and having it stay, I'd look at two methods.

First, the temporary trial method. Get some of those long sewing pins your wife uses (don't you dare use hers!), you know, the ones that look like a "T". This will hold the track down until you get it how you want it. Move it around a little and you'll find the right spot.

Now once you find the spot it's time to lay the tracks perminately. There are many ways to do this and it seems everybody favors one way or another. The choice is really up to you.

I chose the caulking method and have had good success with it. Just make sure you get something that is friendly to the foam you used. I've heard some things about the Liquid nails brand that I don't care for. Mostly it dosn't come back up easily. I use White Lightning brand clear silicone sealant as it is cheap, spreads easy, dries pretty fast, doesn't attack the foam, and holds good. Also, if you discover after a few days that you don't like what you did, you just gently pry up on the tracks and they come right up without any damage to them. You can then just peel up the residue and you are back to perfect roadbed, like there were never any tracks there at all.

I just determine where the tracks are going to go and lay down a bead of this stuff. Then I take a small putty knife and spread it out a little bit. You want it thick enough to grab the ties but not so thick that it squishes up above them. It holds pretty good right from the start. I lay out 180 degree 22 inch radius curves all at once and once I pu***he track down into the stuff it will hold the curve all the way through (except for the very ends of course) while I work on it. To hold the ends while you do this you can either attatch the ends to the rest of your track work or just break out those trusty "T" shaped pins again. Then just lay some books or something on it to hold it in place while it sets. It cures in about 24 hours although I've run trains on it in much less before.

The biggest drawback to this stuff is the smell when you first lay it. Don't lay this stuff down without some ventalation. Matter of fact, just to be safe, lay it down before dinner and then take the wife out for some fine dining. Leave the windows open while your gone. When you come back it should be fine. Fabreeze also helps.

BTW, I can't help but think what a pair Hanna and my dog Pokey would make. Pokey is a Basset hound with the same colors as Hanna. What a sight they would be together! [8D]

[jacon12]

The Honey Do list is getting longer and longer so I guess I have to lay railroading aside for a couple of days and catch up but one question before I go.
I have two locomotives, one dcc with sound and the other I just converted to dcc but not sound. I've noticed that a lotta times, even though I really like sound, I'll mute it if I'm working on something, it's a bit distracting, and I'll run the Kato non-sound one. Am I the only one that does this?
Well, wheres that list of things I got to do....
Jarrell

[jacon12]

Building a layout reminds me a little of playing chess (I'm no good at that either!). You have to be able to think 3 or 4 moves down the road all the time.
I've been thinking and standing at the layout and looking at the available space I have and I've got to rule out the switchback method. I just don't think I have enough room and it is probably beyond my skills to pull off without major headaches. I certainly appreciate Crandell laying the option on the table though. And that is precisely what you fellas are doing for me, putting the options out there and without them I'd be forever trying to figure things out.
I now understand the difference between a double mainline and two tracks that run close to each other. Think two lane road vs. a single lane where you have to pull off to the side to let someone by before proceeding.
Flex track, I've been avoiding it like the plague except on straight areas where I can eat up some distance with it quick. But it's time I learned to lay it correctly which means I have to learn to solder a LOT better than I do now. I've got to learn a method of keeping it in place in a temporary fashion on curves. And, I also have to figure out a way to keep it in place up on those flimsy (compared to 2 inch extruded foam) Woodland Scenic risers and inclines. By that I mean when the incline curves, on straight sections it's no problem.
Letting the track meander a little would give me space behind the track to build rock outcrops, small hills etc and help get away from the incline looking like it is sitting on the tip top of a ridge.
I'm going to work on bringing the two mainlines in closer together to give me more room. I worry a little though about moving the track that is nearest the edge even closer to it.
I don't think there are too many chefs in the kitchen [^] I've come to realize that in MRing that are many ways to do something, more than I ever thought there would be and it is up to me to decide which way I think would be best from the possibilities you folks give me.
As for Hannah, our English Bulldog.. she does cheat at cards but her biggest vice is vanity. With a face that purty though I can't blame her.

Thanks for all your help, tips and suggestions.
Jarrell

[Anonymous]

Jarrell,

Layout planning seems like hard work Eh??? The reason is because there is never enough space to do what you want. This is the single governing factor in most design issues (well duh). If it seems difficult, that's because it is.....

You are correct in that the idea of the double main is just to get the tracks as close as you can to eat up as little table space as possible. It doesn't matter what you want to call them. I think that they will look better than two tracks runnng through the scene 8" apart.

If we digress a bit back to basic layout concepts: The main issue is that you need to have a track coming and another going through the middle of your dogbone in order to have a continous loop. The prototype wouldn't have two tracks within scale 160' of each other running to and from the same place.

So, ideally if you want to protoypical you need to ditch one of the tracks. How you do that is the question. You could, for example hide the return track in a tunnel running the length of the back of your layout (I did exactly that on my last layout). There are several drawbacks to that approach: Hidden running for half of the time and acess problems to name a few. Another approach would be to use a single track through the scene that has loops at both ends. Solves the problem nicely except that now you have to throw switches to run continously. Not my definition of continous running. This brings up the double main (or siding ) idea. This way you still have both tracks running through but they act like one unit. You can hide the area where the tracks split up to form the loops at each end in a variety of ways.

I do think that you want gentle curves on your logging climb. They add visual interest. Don't worry about the "s" curve problem unless you make the curves really tight.

With no disrespect intended to other posters, I would advise that you forget about switchbacks. They will take up a lot of space (more than you have), are a headache to build so they run correctly (reversing direction of the grade on each leg is trickier than it looks) and they are operationally a pain. I have a buddy who put one in and ended up tearing it out because he got tired of the operation issues after spending lots of time tweaking it to get it to run right.

As for what to do with hills: Try to imagine what the topography would look like without the trains. Obviously you have started with the track and will have to use a reverse engineering process to get there. Sort of like how some people do their taxes, figure out what you want to pay, then build a scenario to justify it (most of these guys are in jail or were employees of Enron). In your case, you have tracks now imagine hills.

A couple of classics to avoid: Long stretches of track running say 4" apart at different levels. A devil to scenic and something you see quite often on Model Railroads. Ever wonder why there are so many model companies offering retaining walls out there??? Another is the hill that ends at the track. This is seen when we have track that is on a hill (like your logging branch) and the hill rises to meet the track and then stops. Imagine that the mountain will continue rising behind the tracks and plan space and scenery accordingly.

BTW: Do you really have to cheat to beat the dog at poker??? I liked the pics.

[pcarrell]

Jarrell,

I almost forgot, a real railroad would use a double track mainline where there is high traffic. This helps to eliminate trains waiting in the hole (waiting on a siding for a train to pass it). They go to the same places and everything.

Two tracks side by side can be anything but the above. They could be 1 main and 1 siding or even two different railroads altogether that effectively share a single right of way.

One more thing, as I read your response earlier I was thinking the same thing that you were writing, move the tunnel portal out a little. That might just make the whole thing a little easier to scenic.

[pcarrell]

Jarrell,

In response to your post, you don't want my help in person. You'd have to start all over after I messed it all up!

You are right that I didn't necessarily mean to meander quite that much. Just a gentle curve or two, being mindful of S curves. As Trainnut has suggested, I think flex track is in order here.

Selector has brought up an interesting variation several times now though, and the more I think about it, the more merit it has. A swtchback setup would allow, even demand, a fairily steep hillside and that is part of the problem you are having, what to do with the hillside. It would also require more operation as you'd have to be throwing the switches as you go up or down. Since you would be doing those extra moves, it will take you longer to do them and so you enhance the "reality" that your trains have gone somewhere. Lastly, since you could only move a few cars at a time it would mean that you would have to do it more often (this is good because we can all see that you have more time to model then most of us and this will give us all a chance to catch up).

I realize that these are two very different approaches but I think that either one would offer a good solution.

I am beginning to wonder though, are you beginning to feel as though there are too many of us chefs in the kitchen?

We all want you to be able to progress, we just like exploring possibilities, thats all.

The chief wild goose chaser,

[selector]

Jarrell, no curves needed! Except if you want some realistic meandering up any of the short segments...tho avoid s-curves.

A switchback runs a short distance up the grade, transversly, across the mountain face. It levels, and passes through a switch (turnout), and goes beyond a short distance, long enough to accommodate your l'ill feller and its two or three cars. It would then reverse, through the now thrown switch, and climb another grade across your field of view, a short distance, and through another leveling and switch...and so on, until you get it up to where the logging camp, mine, is.

Switchbacks are used everywhere, and keep your trains in view on your layout!! i hope someone else will support this idea. I have suggested it to others, but it never gets much currency. [B)]

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trainnut1250

Jarrell,

I would turn your two tracks in front into a double mainline. Set em 2.5" on center and pull them far forward as you can. You are almost there any way. Try some flex track for your curves on the hill. You can make much gentler curves that way...

Guy, I'm sorry I don't yet know the difference between two tracks and a double mainline. I'm guessing that a double main is simply two tracks sitting side by side almost. You're certainly right in that I'm almost there. I even thought about eliminating one of the mainlines and going to a single but I don't know if I'd really help anything or make other things I haven't thought of worse.
In the prototype, when would a double mainline be used?
Thanks for the help.
Jarrell

[Anonymous]

Jarrell,

I would turn your two tracks in front into a double mainline. Set em 2.5" on center and pull them far forward as you can. You are almost there any way. Try some flex track for your curves on the hill. You can make much gentler curves that way...

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Now that I read pcarrell's thoughts, I would like to reintroduce my earlier idea of switchbacks. You could keep, and still use, all of those risers, the train still stays in view all the way up to that camp on the left (if it stays there, or whatever you can place up there), and you get cool switching, really prototypical. The shaping and subsequent scenicking would be not terribly challenging, in my view, although a nice trestle or two would be a nice project, and would look really kewl.

If you do this, you would need the space that the others are hoping you move that passing lane out of. You'll need it for the slope on which the switchbacks will lie.

ooooo... switchbacks on an incline.. I like the idea too. It would have to be some tight radius curves, wouldn't it? I have about 7 or 8 inches there to play with. I sure would like at least one trestle too. A high one, over a deep ravine. No.. I don't think I have enough room for a deep ravine. We'll see.
Do they put trestles on 4% grades?
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

It could "meander" onto a rock outcroping and that would serve to divide the long hill with some visual interest and help to break up the scenes on the lower level which will help it to look bigger.

Just a thought, but I think you are on the right path.

P.S. - I just love building a layout this way! It's so much easier then mine. [:D]

Come on down here and lend me your expertise first hand, the drinks are on me..[:D]
I just tried a little meander on it, I took a couple of pieces of 18 r and came out onto an outcropping and then back in to the straight-a-way and the problem was it came out almost over the mainline, have to put a tunnel there for the mainline to go through. I don't think you meant for me to meander that much! It would look good though so I'll work on it a little and see what I can come up with. I plan on letting the base of the hill that the incline is on kinda undulate back and forth so that will break up the monotonous straight line somewhat. I'm going to be able to get a nice slope on it now except right about the point where the top of the incline meets the mountain but there' s not a lot I can do about that, theres just not enough room because of the portal below. OR... I just thought about this.. I could move the portal more forward to widen the mountain at that point but then I'm getting it to the place it would be hard to reach, for cleaning, from the back access hole. Hmmm... it may work though.
Jarrell

[pcarrell]

It could "meander" onto a rock outcroping and that would serve to divide the long hill with some visual interest and help to break up the scenes on the lower level which will help it to look bigger.

Just a thought, but I think you are on the right path.

P.S. - I just love building a layout this way! It's so much easier then mine. [:D]

[jacon12]

Ok heres the changes Ray so kindly suggested...
Before the change..

and the changes with one layer taken off and the track moved over and the turnout moved.

the old incline with the sheer drop.. :)

and the same incline after mainline moved etc.

the new arrangement showing temporary supports under it to find where the incline will end and darn it, it's right in the curve. No problem.

also by moving the mainline I'll have enough room for the sawmill and a small yard..

So, what do ya'll think?
I now have 8 inches between the rail on the incline and the mainline and that should be enough room to scenic it better.
A trestle would be nice, but do you think I have enough room to 'meander' the incline a little?
Jarrell

[selector]

Now that I read pcarrell's thoughts, I would like to reintroduce my earlier idea of switchbacks. You could keep, and still use, all of those risers, the train still stays in view all the way up to that camp on the left (if it stays there, or whatever you can place up there), and you get cool switching, really prototypical. The shaping and subsequent scenicking would be not terribly challenging, in my view, although a nice trestle or two would be a nice project, and would look really kewl.

If you do this, you would need the space that the others are hoping you move that passing lane out of. You'll need it for the slope on which the switchbacks will lie.

[pcarrell]

Jarrell,

orsonroy's ideas are similar to what I was talking about but I think he has a better handle on it. Moving the passing siding would indeed make all the difference in the world. That would even let the tracks up to the camp meander a little so you can again break up the straight hill image. His ideas about the rock outcroppings are right on the money too.

I wouldn't scrap the incline yet. Just play with it a little and see what happens. [8D]

By the way, awesome photo's!