What do y'all use?
I'm looking to use it as ground cover in places, exposed in the spots not covered by vegetation. The layout has a Florida-ish theme.
- Douglas
Tinted/dyed plaster or spackle. Grains of sand, in any scale less than about 1/6, would be impossible to resolve with the human eye, so they'd not be discernible. Best just to use smoothed and dyed plaster.
Woodland Scenics Fine Ballast Buff. It looks just like the real thing.
Rich
Alton Junction
If you want to push the envelope, I think you can get silicon carbide in sizes that match HO sand.
I went online to a place called Washington Mills. They've got charts and stuff. And phone numbers to call.
I assumed sand to be .01" in diameter. They list silicon carbide grit in size FEPA 320, which pretty much matches the HO scale reduction. It comes smaller, too.
The trick is how to stick the stuff down firmly, 'cause you don't want it loose. Then once it's stuck down, it might be the wrong color. Will the paint coat be thicker than the grit?
Should you care to persue this, please let us know how it works out.
Ed
Tile grout.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I understand that true 1/87 scale sand would be pretty tought to see.
I'm thinking it would be a bit over scaled in order to be able to perceive that its sand, but much less chunky than ballast. I've already painted the plywood a grayish buff color and it makes a big difference, but it needs texture and some undulation.
There is a golf course nearby that just rebuilt its bunkers using finer whiter sand. I might find a few cups and run it through a flour sifter to separate the really fine particles. Lay it like ballast and apply thinned glue.
Bring some home from a Florida beach and sift?
richhotrain Woodland Scenics Fine Ballast Buff. It looks just like the real thing. Rich
That's what I used for a small beach scene. I also used it in the bin for my sanding tower. Obviously it's grossly out of scale but your aren't looking at individual grains. You are looking at the whole pile so for me it is suitable. If you want to get something a little finer, ashtray sand is probably the best bet but every source I checked is pretty expensive. You can find it on Amazon.
There are textured rattle can paints that may have the color and fine texture you are looking for.
Good luck,
Richard
I'm not sure if it's the right colour, but diatomaceous earth is pretty fine granules. Apparently, the food-grade version is safe to use, but the filter-grade stuff is high in crystalline silica and toxic to humans. I'm not sure, but it might be advisable to wear an N95 mask or perhaps a good quality respirator while handling it. Once glued-down, like we do with various types of ground foam, etc., it should be safe.
I seived some crushed limestone, using two or three progressively-finer seives, but still ended-up with gravel, albeit fairly fine.I then ran that "fine" version through a spatter guard (used in cooking things like bacon, which otherwise spatters grease all over the place). I got some fairly fine dust, but there was still some oversized stuff with it, so I ended up dumping it back in the storage container...
If I later have need of the finer stuff, I'll run it through the spatter guard, and hopefully come up with an easier way to get rid of the bigger lumps.
Wayne
doctorwayne
That looks just like a guy in quicksand, in the movies. Except HE'S standing up! Maybe not for long, eh?
For reasons unexplained, we had a lecture on quicksand in a college class. I think it was Materials Science. How not to sink into it was explained, so it could certainly have been useful for someone in the class. Haven't run into it yet, myself.
If you google 'blast media' you will fairly quickly come upon 320-grit or finer materials like aluminum oxide or quartz, which are likely a better color match to sand than silicon carbide.
There is a current eBay listing for a 40-pound pail of 320 AlOx which in the pictures looks very sand-like. For just under $90 this might furnish everyone who has ever modeled a grade with enough material for life...
This is roughly 36 microns... someone with more time and patience than I have could figure out from 3.5mm HO scale what the direct size in microns of the aggregates suitable for various scale purposes would be.
For reference here is a size chart for easy conparison... note that 1 micron is about 14000 grit
https://www.reade.com/reade-resources/particle-measurement/grit-to-mesh-to-microns-to-inches-conversion-chart
DoughlessI understand that true 1/87 scale sand would be pretty tought to see. I'm thinking it would be a bit over scaled in order to be able to perceive that its sand, but much less chunky than ballast.
Hi Doug,
I totally agree. Scale sand does not look like sand. I used real sand on this sandpile. It was finer than most sand but still has enough texture to be seen:
Some will say that it is too coarse, which it technically is, but to me it looks like sand and not butterscotch pudding.
By the way, the sand came from East Padre Island in the Gulf of Mexico. It was sent to me for free by a fellow model railroader who lived on the island. That was many years ago. I'm not sure what the USPS would think of an envelope full of powdery stuff today!?!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
DoughlessBring some home from a Florida beach and sift?
Florida beaches are different colors. The Keys are gray, Daytona is orange, South Beach is white, and Melbourne is beige.
A Florida sand/shell road really does not look much different than any other rural unpaved road.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
Getting the proper light color of Florida's dirt would be interesting. I have never tried.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have an old coffee grinder I use to "pulverize" sand into a finer particle size for model use. I like to place spilled sand in spots spaced to the same outlets on locomotives in service areas. There was always lots of sand on the ground where the hostler or engine crews tested the sanders.
PRR_6514_U25C by Edmund, on Flickr
Fuel_May_EL-2 by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
SeeYou190 Doughless Bring some home from a Florida beach and sift? Florida beaches are different colors. The Keys are gray, Daytona is orange, South Beach is white, and Melbourne is beige. A Florida sand/shell road really does not look much different than any other rural unpaved road. -Photograph by Kevin Parson Getting the proper light color of Florida's dirt would be interesting. I have never tried. -Photograph by Kevin Parson -Kevin
Doughless Bring some home from a Florida beach and sift?
Yep, white-ish gray dirt is what I see when I visit Florida. There is a lot of sand in that soil, IMO. Shells for roads? Makes sense.
And those two pictures look a lot like where I grew up in central Nebraska. Hot summer days with near white gravel dirt roads and parking lots where the gravel blends in to sandy soil on the shoulders. Ever hear of the Nebraska Sandhills? I grew up very close to those.
Sand in the eastern midwest like Indiana tends to be more tan than gray or white.
As I noted, the rebuilt bunkers in the golf course nearby use white sand.
I guess it comes down to finding the right color. I assume that paint might help after the product is laid down.
And yes, the roads would be a little chunkier, but still very light gray, almost white looking.
gmpullman I have an old coffee grinder I use to "pulverize" sand into a finer particle size for model use. I like to place spilled sand in spots spaced to the same outlets on locomotives in service areas. There was always lots of sand on the ground where the hostler or engine crews tested the sanders. PRR_6514_U25C by Edmund, on Flickr Fuel_May_EL-2 by Edmund, on Flickr Good Luck, Ed
Ed, that looks really good. I'd want to make a lot of it as to replicate the pics Kevin shared. Where there is no vegetation ground cover, the soil looks sandy.
BATMAN Tile grout.
DoughlessAnd those two pictures look a lot like where I grew up in central Nebraska.
Interesting you should say that.
The top picture is near Clewiston, Florida, and the crop on the left is Sugar Cane.
I took a nearly identical picture when I was in Nebraska a couple of years ago, but it had Corn on the left side. I shared them in the forum about how much rural Florida looked like rural Nebraska. They were so similar it was shocking.
SeeYou190 Doughless And those two pictures look a lot like where I grew up in central Nebraska. Interesting you should say that. The top picture is near Clewiston, Florida, and the crop on the left is Sugar Cane. I took a nearly identical picture when I was in Nebraska a couple of years ago, but it had Corn on the left side. I shared them in the forum about how much rural Florida looked like rural Nebraska. They were so similar it was shocking. -Kevin
Doughless And those two pictures look a lot like where I grew up in central Nebraska.
Yep. That could easily be a corn field on the left. Obviously, FL soil is more sandy than even the part of NE near the sandhills, but the overall landscape is very close.
I have only visited SW FL after age 50. The first time it was a hot day and the flatness and sandiness immeidately took me back to my youth, age 17 driving my 1974 Dodge Charger with short cut off jean shorts on scalding vinyl seats. With the exception of the shape of the trees and the leaves, it really looks a lot similar to what I remember.
Do you have a sand and gravel producer near you? If yes take a coffee can and ask for pond washings from the sand screws. I worked at one and the silt from the washed sand is perfect. Right color, texture, and already wet for the scenic cement. Just don't let it dry. The dust is not good to breathe and sticks to everything.
I have purchased fairly large bags of "Artist" sands at Michael's. Some of these sands are very fine and, most importantly, clean! I am also modeling beach scenes and first painted these areas with "sand" colored craft paint then sprinkling on white artist sand while the paint was still wet. The effect is acceptable. Recently, I have been looking at tile grout. A sand colored "non-sanded" grout would probably give a pretty good representation of HO scale sand. Sanded grout would probably be too coarse.
Hornblower
dknelsonit was later mentioned that taking sand from the beach is prohibited.
Yes, it generally is prohibited at all beaches.
I was thinking that I would just hang out by those open public showers and scoop up the body wash sand, preferably when they were unoccupied.........
hornblower I have fairly large bags of "Artist" sands at Michael's. Some of these sands are very fine and, most importantly, clean! I am also modeling beach scenes and first painted these areas with "sand" colored craft paint then sprinkling on white artist sand while the paint was still wet. The effect is acceptable. Recently, I have been looking at tile grout. A sand colored "non-sanded" grout would probably give a pretty good representation of HO scale sand. Sanded grout would probably be too coarse.
I have fairly large bags of "Artist" sands at Michael's. Some of these sands are very fine and, most importantly, clean! I am also modeling beach scenes and first painted these areas with "sand" colored craft paint then sprinkling on white artist sand while the paint was still wet. The effect is acceptable. Recently, I have been looking at tile grout. A sand colored "non-sanded" grout would probably give a pretty good representation of HO scale sand. Sanded grout would probably be too coarse.
Yes, cleaning real sand would be another step. I'll have to head to Michael's to see what the stuff looks like.
I'm surprised how much simply painting the plywood helps. Sprinkling the sand onto the wet paint is a great idea.
If you can get it Sand dune sand is much finer then beach sand. The waves wash up the fines and leave a line which dries and gets blown to the dunes
dknelsonI recall the story it was later mentioned that taking sand from the beach is prohibited.
If they dealt with even 1% of the tourists that steal sand from beaches, Florida courts would be backlogged for decades!
In the Florida Panhandle, at least, it is not 'beach' sand collecting that is proscribed; it is DUNE sand collecting. Because you aren't supposed to mess with the fragile dune 'ecosystem' and the fine drifted sand is part of that.
OvermodIn the Florida Panhandle
We "real" Floridians do not consider the Panhandle to be part of our state, that is properly just Extra-Southern Alabama, thank you.
SeeYou190 dknelson I recall the story it was later mentioned that taking sand from the beach is prohibited. If they dealt with even 1% of the tourists that steal sand from beaches, Florida courts would be backlogged for decades! -Kevin
dknelson
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
hornblowerRecently, I have been looking at tile grout. A sand colored "non-sanded" grout would probably give a pretty good representation of HO scale sand. Sanded grout would probably be too coarse.
Horatio,
The difference between "Sanded" and "Non-Sanded" grout is that sanded has "Sand" in it.
Dan
As I read the responses and think about this a little more, fine sand has the potential of creating a mess. It can get everywhere and might be hard to remove from places. Constantly finding sand weeks and months later.
I remembered texturing the concrete walls of our new basement 20 years ago. Wanted a better look than the concrete but not ready to finish the walls for a few years. I chisled the rough spots and seams, filled in the bigger voids with plaster, then proceeded to coat the walls with textured paint.
I simply poured play sand into a couple of gallons of latex paint. Applied the thick solution with an old stiff brissled paint brush. It filled the small voids and smoothed out the walls like a coating of smooth stucco. (I may have even mixed a little Plaster of Paris into the bucket) I was so pleased with the results that we never got around to finishing the walls.
Mixing the sand into the paint first should keep it contained as I work with it, and limit the mess. And the final color will be based upon the color of the paint and not the color of the sand or whatever filler I use.
So it may be a matter of deciding what material would mix into about a half gallon of paint and still provide the right texture and not dissolving into a thick paste. Probably about 1 to 2 cups into the half gallon of paint should do the whole layout (that isn't covered by track, roads, parking lots, buildings, and vegitation.)