I am going to begin ballasting the track on my new layout. For the most part, it will be done on my double mainline. The straight sections of double mainline track are 2 inches on center. So in keeping with prototype photos, it appears that the ballast covers the open area between the two tracks without any appearance of weeds or grasses.
But I also have some areas of track where there is a third track that services yards and spur tracks. On one curve in particular, the three tracks are spaced 3 to 4 inches apart. Would you cover the entire area between the tracks with ballast or would you intersperse ballast with weeds and grasses in that area?
Rich
Alton Junction
I'd go with the weeds and grass. Seems more prototypical to me. An unkept area, that maybe gets sprayed when it gets out of hand.
Mike.
My You Tube
RR_Mel I also have 2” spacing on my mainline and I spot sprinkled grass and weeds between the tracks. I’m just getting into static grass and when I figure out how to apply it I’m going to try a little bit between the tracks too.
mbinsewi I'd go with the weeds and grass. Seems more prototypical to me. An unkept area, that maybe gets sprayed when it gets out of hand. Mike.
richhotrain RR_Mel I also have 2” spacing on my mainline and I spot sprinkled grass and weeds between the tracks. I’m just getting into static grass and when I figure out how to apply it I’m going to try a little bit between the tracks too. I keep coming across photos like this which lead me to believe that an active double mainline must be vegetation free, thus, my dilemma. Rich
I keep coming across photos like this which lead me to believe that an active double mainline must be vegetation free, thus, my dilemma.
That seems excessively clean. Maybe brand new? You'll at least find random junk like tie plates and spikes strewn on the ballast, even if the weeds are kept down.
And that's on standard spacing. In areas where there are more than one track and they have space between them, it would be very odd for there not to be weeds and such growing in the space. Depending on the frequency of maintenence, they might even get pretty high before being knocked back, if they get knocked back. If there are no hand operated switches with the switch stands in the space between tracks - I don't think they'd bother much with taking down the weeds. Even if regularly sprayed, there will be low stuff growing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
A 2011 view of UP double track mainline on the shore of the Carquinez Strait near Crockett, Ca., on the right is part of C&H sugar refinery service trackage.
Regards, Peter
If ballast and subroadbed do their jobs right, and if well maintained , well drained, and regularly cleaned, track should be free of vegetation. But it is pretty common for track NOT to be well maintained or the ballast cleaned. As ballast ages (pounded by trains) it grinds against itself, becomes more rounded. Crossings in particular are so expensive to maintain that it is at crossings that you often see mud mixed with the ballast from the pumping action of the track (loose spikes, ties not setting in their cribs). That pumping action, that mud, and the looseness of the ballast - holds moisture, allows dirt to settle and gives a place for vegetation to take hold. Environmental concerns have made vegetation control ore difficult too. It is almost shocking to look at photos of railroad right of way 30 and 40 years ago and see how few trees and shrubs were trackside. Now there are more trees. Some classic photography spots, such as the famous curve at Naperville on the CB&Q/BN look different now for example.
So I think the real question is how well is your prototype railroad able to deal with all of this? If you model the Rock Island, or the Milwaukee Road in the 1970s-80s, or the Penn Central, you'll see some vegetation.
Dave Nelson
This of course will vary by loaction and era.
DSC00358 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
DSC00358
Above is BNSF trackage in Lamar, CO. The secondary tracks are lower than the main, have different ballast, and reflect less intensive maintenance. Between the main and other tracks is mostly a mixture of dirt and gravel.
Gering Industries 8 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Gering Industries 8
Along the UP in Gering, NE there are some weeds and an access road, but again mostly dirt.
The above photo from http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3453258 isn't mine, but shows mostly ballast of varying textures, colors, and depths between tracks at Fernley, NV.
Cenex-Fuel Spots by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Cenex-Fuel Spots
I took a similar approach here, by using different ballast and some scattered weeds.
Milton Team Track Spot by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Milton Team Track Spot
There's more vegetation along this team track, but again a similar look.
Rob Spangler
rrinker That seems excessively clean. Maybe brand new? You'll at least find random junk like tie plates and spikes strewn on the ballast, even if the weeds are kept down. And that's on standard spacing. In areas where there are more than one track and they have space between them, it would be very odd for there not to be weeds and such growing in the space. Depending on the frequency of maintenence, they might even get pretty high before being knocked back, if they get knocked back. If there are no hand operated switches with the switch stands in the space between tracks - I don't think they'd bother much with taking down the weeds. Even if regularly sprayed, there will be low stuff growing. --Randy
dknelson So I think the real question is how well is your prototype railroad able to deal with all of this? If you model the Rock Island, or the Milwaukee Road in the 1970s-80s, or the Penn Central, you'll see some vegetation. Dave Nelson
wp8thsub I took a similar approach here, by using different ballast and some scattered weeds. There's more vegetation along this team track, but again a similar look.
Thanks for the kind words, Rich. I hope your project turns out.
If you can imagine it, it must surely exist somewhere.
The CP tracks through the Rockies are full of growth, and that's because the grain hopper closure mechanisms don't make perfect seals. Grains of wheat, barley, canola,...you name it...fall through the proverbial cracks and germinate some time in April or May, depending on the weather and last day of frost.
However, the ballast is meant to be relatively clean. Some roads use steam blasters to kill vegatation, or they spray, stuff that gets into the lower reaches of the ballast outboard of the ties. And, we all know that ballast, itself, gets cleaned or replaced as needed, so you could almost have it both ways along your main. I switched batches of clean sand partway through ballasting my twin mains a couple of years ago precisely because I wanted that look, but also to have variations when I finally (?) begin to take photos.
HO-Velo A 2011 view of UP double track mainline on the shore of the Carquinez Strait near Crockett, Ca., on the right is part of C&H sugar refinery service trackage. Regards, Peter
When I am ballasting I first apply a layer that represents the surface of the roadbed, usually a different colour of rock, sometimes a different texture, then ballast as normal. In the OP's case this would leave a surface finished surface between the widely spaced tracks. I would then apply some randon weeds, or a little static grass, not much, as it is growing in a fairly hostile environment.
Bagal
Thanks for your thoughts, Selector and Bagal.
My usual go-to source for vegetation is Woodland Scenics, but I have recently been considering Scenic Express. The same has been true for ballast where I recently made the switch from Woodland Scenics to Scenic Express.
Any thoughts on the use of Scenic Express vegetation?
What specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas?
richhotrainWhat specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas?
Ground foam works pretty much the same as with other brands. Much of what's useful from Scenic Express isn't from their brand name, including things like static grass or tufts (if you have a static applicator, tufts are easy to make and cost less than the ones you buy).
Milton Elevator Spots by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Milton Elevator Spots
60 Ford 1 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
60 Ford 1
I use a lot of static material and grass tufts around secondary tracks, along with some fine foam here and there. Note the prototype will try to avoid anything that would constitute a tripping hazard, so vegetation more substantial than large weeds would typically be absent from an area where crews have to walk.
wp8thsub richhotrain What specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas? Ground foam works pretty much the same as with other brands. Much of what's useful from Scenic Express isn't from their brand name, including things like static grass or tufts (if you have a static applicator, tufts are easy to make and cost less than the ones you buy). Milton Elevator Spots by wp8thsub, on Flickr 60 Ford 1 by wp8thsub, on Flickr I use a lot of static material and grass tufts around secondary tracks, along with some fine foam here and there. Note the prototype will try to avoid anything that would constitute a tripping hazard, so vegetation more substantial than large weeds would typically be absent from an area where crews have to walk.
richhotrain What specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas?
by wp8thsub, on Flickr
In those two photos, I especially like the grass tufts. Woodland Scenics doesn't seem to have that style of vegetation, but Scenic Express does. I need to get more ballast from Scenic Express so I will add some grass tufts to my order.
Thanks for your comments and photos.
wp8thsub I use a lot of static material and grass tufts around secondary tracks, along with some fine foam here and there. Note the prototype will try to avoid anything that would constitute a tripping hazard, so vegetation more substantial than large weeds would typically be absent from an area where crews have to walk.
richhotrain Which brand and type of grass tufts did you use in that photo?
Those are homemade using 6mm grass. Colors include Late Summer (the darker green) and golden grass from Silflor, and beige from Noch.
Making these is simple if you have a static applicator. I place drops of flexible glue like canoply glue or Aleene's Tacky Glue on non-stick aluminum foil, clip the applicator's ground probe to the foil, and keep adding grass fiber until I have the look I want. After the glue dries I dump the excess fiber into a container for re-use.
Woodland Scenics also has some nice static grass in various lengths, and they have some variegated colors. I used some of it on a friend's layout and it's worth a look too.
wp8thsub richhotrain Which brand and type of grass tufts did you use in that photo? Those are homemade using 6mm grass. Colors include Late Summer (the darker green) and golden grass from Silflor, and beige from Noch. Making these is simple if you have a static applicator. I place drops of flexible glue like canoply glue or Aleene's Tacky Glue on non-stick aluminum foil, clip the applicator's ground probe to the foil, and keep adding grass fiber until I have the look I want. After the glue dries I dump the excess fiber into a container for re-use. Woodland Scenics also has some nice static grass in various lengths, and they have some variegated colors. I used some of it on a friend's layout and it's worth a look too.
OK, so you can make homemade grass tufts if you own a static applicator, which I don't. But, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct?
richhotrainBut, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct?
Yes. They just cost more. If you need them in mass quantities, it may be cost effective to get an applicator and make your own, otherwise just go with what's available from Silflor, etc.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the applicator of static grasses will not really make tufts unless one is prepared to place multiple dots of glue, apply the grass, and then wait to vacuum up what doesn't stick to the dots of glue. You'll get tufts, but you'll have to 'retrieve' all the stuff that won't be able to be included in a tuft. Instead, the idea of the applicator, as I see it, is to create a field of sorts, or maybe the term 'swashes' of grass is more appropriate. Expanses that, in scale, would run from 20 square feet on up to entire hillsides.
The tuft sheets are meant to be planted individually as tufts, and that would be entirely natural in some places. Higher elevations, for example, or places along the right-of-way where tuft grasses grow.
wp8thsub richhotrain But, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct? Yes. They just cost more. If you need them in mass quantities, it may be cost effective to get an applicator and make your own, otherwise just go with what's available from Silflor, etc.
richhotrain But, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct?
selectorI may be wrong, but it seems to me that the applicator of static grasses will not really make tufts unless one is prepared to place multiple dots of glue, apply the grass, and then wait to vacuum up what doesn't stick to the dots of glue. You'll get tufts, but you'll have to 'retrieve' all the stuff that won't be able to be included in a tuft.
Remember - homemade grass tufts are made off the layout just like the commercial ones (again, I make them on non-stick aluminum foil sheet). When the glue dries, all you have to do to save the excess grass is to pour it off the sheet into a container. I've made thousands of them.
Hudson-Associated Spots by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Hudson-Associated Spots
All of the tufts shown here were made on foil sheets using the same static applicator I use on the layout itself.
How much do static applicators cost? I was researching this a little, and it seems like a decent static applicator can be quite expensive.
I bought this one last fall, a GrassTech:
It was reviewed in the April 2012 MR. I bought last fall, but I haven't used it yet.
It was under $40.
I tried the harbor freight fly swatter DIY version and it didn't work at all.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hello All,
richhotrainWould you cover the entire area between the tracks with ballast or would you intersperse ballast with weeds and grasses in that area?
A few thoughts...
The prototypical double-track mainlines I have observed are completely ballasted.
Even the sidings are as well maintained as the mainline.
I recall seeing a depressed siding where the difference between the mainline and the siding was as much as 15-feet. Track crews built stairs out of reclaimed ties so crews could navigate the steep slope between the tracks.
The entire slope between the tracks, despite the elevation difference, was completely ballasted.
With a siding or diverging single track the ballast only needs to be so wide.
Measuring the HO roadbed I use it's 2-inches wide (actual), at the base. That makes the ballast pad approximately 14-feet wide (scale).
Once the diverging track moves more than 20-feet (scale), 2-3/4-inches (actual), away from the main, I would expect vegetation to grow between the tracks.
Another thought is...
How diligent is the track crew clearing weeds?
If this siding is well use and maintained then I wouldn't expect much vegetation but I would not expect the railroad to spend money on ballasting dirt between the siding and the main.
This area could be simply modeled as plain old compacted dirt.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"