How many Tortoises to operate a Peco Code 83 Unifrog double slip?

[richhotrain]

Tinplate Toddler

 

Rich, I am a night owl, but I am also 7 hours ahead of you (just by the time of the day). 

Ulrich, I realized that as I wrote it, but I wanted to acknowledge your late night (Chicago time zone) contribution, so I included you in my reference to "night owls".  

Rich

[richhotrain]

rrinker

I was looking at the Peco, and 4 positions are it:

1. Both throwbars to the top: bottom track is straight through, top track has an open point on the right, derailment.

2. Both throwbars down: top track straight through, bottom track has open point

3. Left throwbar up, right throwbar down: Top left to bottom right cross over, bottm left has an open point

4. Left throwbar down, right throwbar up: Bottom left to top right cross over, bottom right has open point

Ulrich, your animation is for a single slip. One side can go straight, or they both cross over. Double slip has a third point on each throwbar so either track can go straight. 

Now, I am confused, and I operate 4 Peco Code 83 Unifrog Double Slips. Not sure what you mean, Randy, by "Double slip has a third point on each throwbar". Here is a closeup of one of my Peco double slips. The photo shows 4 point rails controlled by each throwbar. Two pairs of point rails operate in tandem as a set when the throwbar is moved up or down. In the photo, the left throwbar is up and the right throwbar is down.

Or, were you referring to Ulrich's single slip?

Rich

[gmpullman]

That switch should work out very well for you, Dave. Looking closely at the photo it does look like it is a non-shorting type 

4 Pole Rotary Switch.

I may have to get a few as spares (ignoring the hoarding lifetime supplies thread )

I simply wire a pair of bi-color LEDs in series with the lead to the Tortoise for the track status diagram. At a glance you see your route.

 

[edit]  Fixed it 

Cheers, Ed

[BigDaddy]

gmpullman

I may have to get a few as spares (ignoring the hoarding thread Zip it!)

It's not a thread about hoarding, it's about buying what you need, if you are immortal.

[richhotrain]

gmpullman

That switch should work out very well for you, Dave. Looking closely at the photo it does look like it is a non-shorting type 

4 Pole Rotary Switch.

I may have to get a few as spares (ignoring the hoarding lifetime supplies thread )

I simply wire a pair of bi-color LEDs in series with the lead to the Tortoise for the track status diagram. At a glance you see your route.

Ed, tell me if I am understanding your use of the 4-pole rotary switch.

You wire one 4-pole rotary switch to control both of the two Tortoises and the control panel LEDs?

Rich

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

richhotrain

 

 

gmpullman

That switch should work out very well for you, Dave. Looking closely at the photo it does look like it is a non-shorting type 

4 Pole Rotary Switch.

I may have to get a few as spares (ignoring the hoarding lifetime supplies thread )

I simply wire a pair of bi-color LEDs in series with the lead to the Tortoise for the track status diagram. At a glance you see your route.

 

 

 

Ed, tell me if I am understanding your use of the 4-pole rotary switch.

 

You wire one 4-pole rotary switch to control both of the two Tortoises and the control panel LEDs?

Rich

 

I'm sure that is what Ed has done, no doubt he will give us the details. 

I use four lighted pushbuttons and four relays. And that allows the controls to be duplicated on two or more panels. No matter which location you change it from, all locations show the correct route with the lights.

Sheldon

[gmpullman]

richhotrain

Ed, tell me if I am understanding your use of the 4-pole rotary switch.

I'll have to get around to making a decent drawing of how I wired them.

Picture each leg of the "wiper" going to the four Tortoise terminals (Tortoise A: 1 & 8; Tortoise B: 1 & 8) Now for each of the four positions you refer to the chart I made above.

So you feed your DC + and – to the switch poles as needed for each step of the switch.

Sounds complicated to say, but really is easy to do. There are two wires coming in to the switch and four out, one pair to each Tortoise.

I'll work on a sketch and post it in a little while. The signal or panel indicators are simply LEDs in series with the Tortoise actuating wire (either one) as described in the data sheet or several other sources.

Hastily sketched!

4P4P by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

[richhotrain]

Thanks, Ed. That appeals to me as a way to automate my four double slip complex.

On my old layout, with only one double slip, I used two Tortoises to power the double slip, each Tortoise controlled by a DPDT toggle switch. The pertinent control panel simply tapped off of the DPDT to control the pair of bi-polar LEDs that indicated selected track routes.

On my new layout, with a four double slip complex, I opted for manual control of the Peco double slips by moving the throwbars up and down. That makes route selection east, but wiring a control panel is difficult.

Rich

Edit Note: Thanks for posting that wiring diagram, Ed. 

[gmpullman]

When I first set up my CP-Union junction I fretted over how I was going to control the three slip switches. I even came up with a series of plugs and sockets that plugged in like a switchboard operator routes phone calls.

Then I found those surplus push buttons and tried one on the first slip switch I had on a yard lead. It was very successful (see my earlier photo)

But for the Union Station leads I later found nice rotary switches and I never looked back. Very happy with the results.

CP_Union by Edmund, on Flickr

CP_Union_model by Edmund, on Flickr

In the above photo you can see everything is lined for the two mains and the secondary, all green LEDs across.

I should make a diagram spelling out the A-B-C-D positions for each of the knobs but all an operator has to do is watch the red/green lights for a line-up.

Hope that helps, Ed

[richhotrain]

gmpullman

CP_Union_model by Edmund, on Flickr

In the above photo you can see everything is lined for the two mains and the secondary, all green LEDs across.

I should make a diagram spelling out the A-B-C-D positions for each of the knobs but all an operator has to do is watch the red/green lights for a line-up.

Hope that helps, Ed

 

Heck, just the rotary dials, even without the LEDs, show the routes quite nicely.

Rich

[BigDaddy]

I'm a rotary switch newbie and I stil don't understand. Googling wiper gets me switches for windshield wipers.

Which are the wipers? If all 16 of those tabs are wipers, which ones do I use?

 

[richhotrain]

All of the text and all of the diagrams in the various replies point out the complexity of track routes. Here are some visuals on my layout, using the Peco Code 83 Unifrog Double Slip. The bottom track is 1 and the top track is 4.

The first photo shows the train crossing through the double slip up to the second track above with the left throwbar down and the right throwbar up.  1 to 3.

The second photo shows the train diverging through the double slip up to the track immediately above with the left throwbar up and the right throwbar up. 1 to 2.

The third photo shows the train moving left to right through the double slip with the left throwbar up and the right throwbar down. 2 to 2.

The fourth photo shows the train diverging up through the double slip to the track immediately above with the left throwbar down and the right throwbar down. 2 to 3.

 

[gmpullman]

BigDaddy

Which are the wipers? If all 16 of those tabs are wipers, which ones do I use?

I'll borrow this photo from Amazon.

W is the wiper, it has continuity to the ring in the middle, partly hidden by the frame-piece. You can barely see the tip of the contact touching that inner ring.

Rotary2 by Edmund, on Flickr

Follow the green dots to the contact point. Imagine that contact finger moving to the next position. The W wiper will still be making continuity with the middle ring.

On a FOUR pole switch only four points will be common "wipers" you just have to look for the finger that contacts the ring.

Hope that helps. There's probably better pictures out there but I don't have them at hand.

Here's a better look. These are the switches I use. W = wiper or pole, C = contact or position [wiper is "made" at this position].

Rot-bot by Edmund, on Flickr

https://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/electrical_electronic_components/switches/rotary_switches

 Commonly, the wiper terminal (pole) is identified as a letter and the selectable contact points (position) as a number.

OK, I'm hitting the rack for a while 

Ed

[hon30critter]

Thanks for the wiring diagram Ed.

Dave