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Building a layout on a rotisserie

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 24, 2021 11:16 PM

Track fiddler
I'm poster number 900.  Do I get a prize? 

BowBowBow

I'm too cheap to give out prizes!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh However, your patience at staying with this thread through 900 posts is to be admired!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:16 PM

Track fiddler
I was thinking there is too much room for human error with that big of a piece of paper.  Besides when you go to carve the foam later you have all that paper and dried glue hindering you.

Hi TF,

That is a great suggestion! In fact I already bought a large pounce wheel to do the same thing but I changed my mind.

However, I'm still interested in gluing the paper down because it will show exactly where each turnout is supposed to go. The end points of each turnout are clearly printed on my plan. I will have to lengthen the lines a bit so that they won't be hidden by the cork roadbed. I won't have to do any measuring. I can just install the turnouts loosely, then connect them with flex track and then adjust the turnout positions to get the track alignment correct.

One thing that I have to test is whether or not the spray adhesive will attack the foam. The foam has been painted with latex paint so that will hopefully protect it. If the spray adhesive doesn't play nice I will use wallpaper paste. I just changed my mind. I'm going to use wallpaper paste. It will be much easier to deal with and it is about 1/3rd the price. I'll just have to make sure that it doesn't cause the ink to bleed.

There will be a couple of things that will differ from what you saw in the video.

First, I'm not using the huge sheets of paper that the video showed. My plan is printed on regular 8 1/2" x 11" letter paper and then taped together. That allows me to keep the sections of the drawing small enough to control easily (I hope). Most of the plan will only be 22" wide as well because there is almost no track in the center of the layout.

Second, the lines on my plan are quite fine when compared to the huge lines on the video. That was actually a mistake on the part of their printer. My diagrams will allow the turnouts and track to be placed precisely. I won't glue any track down until it all fits properly.

As I mentioned before, I am a little bit concerned that the paper might swell up and wrinkle when I am installing ballast and scenery. To prevent that I am going to seal the top surface of the printout with clear oil based varathane after it is glued down. The oil base shouldn't affect the paper as it dries. I did the same thing when I built the control panels for my old club and it worked quite well. The only thing that I have to make sure of is that the paper is glued down firmly. If the edges come loose the paper might curl up as the varathane shrinks.

As far as cutting through the paper to do ditches, etc., I don't think that will be a problem. I will use a #11 blade or a carpet knife to cut a slot in the paper wide enough to allow my hot foam cutter to get at the foam.

Thanks again for spending the time to think of a solution for my situation. That was very kind of you!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 9:57 AM

Good morning Dave.

I'm poster number 900.  Do I get a prize? 

 

I was a little puzzled this morning thinking about the application of spray adhesive and a 5'4"x12' piece of paper glued to the foam.

I can understand why that guy in the video used this technique as the layout he's making is huge.  Regular paper sure doesn't have the rigidity as formica does when using this application.  I was thinking there is too much room for human error with that big of a piece of paper.  Besides when you go to carve the foam later you have all that paper and dried glue hindering you.

I was trying to think of a way that you could transfer your layout plan to the foam easily on your bar stool on wheels with your layout tipped sideways.  After all that's why you designed your rotisserie layout to make things easier.

You could take bulletin board tacks and pin the perimeter of your full sized layout plan to the foam every 4-5" while the layout is in its upright normal position.  (The dollar store down here has 200 of them for $1)  Then you could tip your layout sideways and sit comfortably and transfer the plan to the foam.

I did a little experiment this morning with you in mind.

 

Before

No glue, No fuss, No mess!

Maybe it would be good to put some tacks along the line you're rolling as you go.

 

After

I found I did not have to push very hard at all and the line was very visible.

 

Those pizza cutters aren't just for lunch anymore.  Hopefully you eat lots of pizza and have a dull one like I do so it don't slice through the paper. 

You can easily take your time and roll over all the lines with the pizza cutter.  Maybe take a yellow highlighter and follow so you know where you've been as you go.

 

I hope you like the idea and it helps you outSmile

 

P.S.  I hope that tendon issue you went through is feeling better now.  I know how painful that is as I get a bad spell occasionally in my surgical knee.  

 

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, April 24, 2021 8:22 AM

hon30critter
First, if I'm not mistaken, white glue is soluable in water. Therefore, it will allow water to get to the paper track plan layer and the paper will then swell and wrinkle. Second, modge podge is way, way more expensive than shellac.

Good points.

I have never used shellac, what is it normally used for?

-Kevin

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 24, 2021 2:50 AM

SeeYou190
Instead of shellac, would simply coating both sides of the full size track plan with white glue or Mad Podge Matte be good? 

Hi Kevin,

I have a few concerns about your suggestion.

First, if I'm not mistaken, white glue is soluable in water. Therefore, it will allow water to get to the paper track plan layer and the paper will then swell and wrinkle.

Second, modge podge is way, way more expensive than shellac.

I will use white glue when I get to the point of ballasting, but I'm going to make absolutely certain that the paper layer won't cause a problem when I get there.

Thanks for your input,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, April 24, 2021 1:36 AM

Dave,

Instead of shellac, would simply coating both sides of the full size track plan with white glue or Mad Podge Matte be good? 

I personally think Mod Podge Matte would be the way to go, since decoupage is literally gluing paper.

-Kevin

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

  • Member since
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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 24, 2021 12:51 AM

I have made a decision about how to mark the track plan on the foam. I am going to use spray glue to glue full sized track diagrams directly to the foam. This method is being used by a professional layout builder who is currently building a huge layout for a customer. Go to about the three minute mark to get a view of the paper templates that he is using:

I was really concerned that the paper plan would cause problems when the ballast glue was being applied. In order to reduce that possibility I'm going to coat the paper with shellac after it is glued down. Hopefully that will reduce or eliminate any tendancy for the paper to swell and wrinkle.

Printing the full sized track plan is easy with 3rdPlanIt. It just takes a bunch of tape to stick the letter sized paper sheets together.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 20, 2021 3:54 AM

Hello everyone,

I apologise again for not posting new updates on the layout, but as I have already explained, my ability to climb stairs and to stand for more than a couple of minutes has been totally compromised by my Achilles tendon rupture and my bad knees. Unfortunately, work on the layout will have to be postponed for at least a few months.

In the interim, I am spending my time sorting and organizing all of my locomotives and rolling stock. Thanks to a larger than expected income tax return I have been able to order enough decoders to convert all of my DC locomotives to Loksound sound decoders.

Once I have the decoders installed I intend to start building some of the structures that will go on the layout. However, before I can do that I will have to build some storage units in the garage so that I can store them without being subject to damage or dust.

Patience is a virtue! Thank you for being patient!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, April 8, 2021 12:57 PM

Hopefully, things will get back to normal once the tendon problems are gone. Our aging bodies don't adapt well when one of the components fails! 

Simon

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 8, 2021 4:24 AM

hon30critter
Dianne and I got our first Covid-19 vaccinations yesterday. Neither of us felt the needle at all, and so far we haven't had any soreness or other side effects.

I am hoping for the best for you.

We had the Moderna shot on Monday, first dose. Also no soreness or side effects.

-Kevin

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, April 8, 2021 3:02 AM

No results from the MRI yet, but it looks like it will be a while before I can resume work on the layout. On Wednesday my knees hurt so bad that I could hardly stand or walk. They have never been this painful. Heaven knows what is in store for me now!

At least on a positive note, Dianne and I got our first Covid-19 vaccinations yesterday. Neither of us felt the needle at all, and so far we haven't had any soreness or other side effects. Let's hope it stays that way.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 12:21 AM

I have an MRI scheduled on Friday morning so I will soon know if my Achilles tendon has healed enough to start putting some weight on it. If I get the go ahead I can get back out to the garage to resume work on the layout itself.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Munz Renni on Sunday, March 28, 2021 8:34 AM

I really thankful that you post your work process, it reminded mw to take one detain from my property in Greece here, where I have my work studio

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, March 18, 2021 11:49 PM

SeeYou190
The views on my "layout segment" and "cardboard layout" build threads keep going up and up, even though they have not been updated in years.

I'll try to update my thread a little more often than that!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

I did make some progress tonight sorting out my workbench and my storage drawer units. I can now say that I have all my LEDs in one ziplock bag, and all my other components like resistors and speakers in their proper places. I also started to clear space on the workbench but I didn't get very far. What I managed to do was dig out all of the projects that were occupying a major portion of the actual work area. There are eight in total. I now have them all lined up ready to be labelled and put into the stack of kits that are on the back of the benchwork. Before I can do that I have to sort through the stack of kits and put a large number of them that won't be worked on for a while into a tote so they can be moved to the garage. There will be a second tote containing RTR stuff that is currently stacked on the back of the workbench as well. And there will be a third tote with things like bridge and structure kits that will be worked on down the road.

Small progress perhaps, but progress none the less, and my shoulder isn't hurting!Thumbs Up

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, March 18, 2021 10:53 PM

hon30critter
The thread just went over the 45000 views mark! I am amazed that so many people enjoy being bored to death!

The views on my "layout segment" and "cardboard layout" build threads keep going up and up, even though they have not been updated in years.

-Kevin

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, March 18, 2021 9:10 PM

The thread just went over the 45000 views mark! I am amazed that so many people enjoy being bored to death!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Seriously, thank you all for your interest!Bow

My shoulder is still messed up so I'm not able to do anything constructive. Even cleaning up the workbench has proven to be a problem.

Thanks again for your patience.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 1:57 AM

hon30critter
I also have a bunch of freight cars sitting one on top of another on the shelves above my workbench so I want to box a lot of them up too. I also have a large number of freight car kits on the workbench which I probably won't get to for several years so I want to get them out of the way as well.

That all sounds like a very good plan.

All my projects are packed away right now, and I was careful when packing them to make sure any losse would be minimal.

-Kevin

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 1:14 AM

In an attempt to reclaim my workbench I just bought four large tote boxes and 50 smaller cardboard boxes which are just a bit larger than the average Athearn BB. I have about a dozen projects sitting on my workbench in boxes without tops. Putting those into a storage container is a recipe for disaster if they spill so that's why I bought the new boxes. I also have a bunch of freight cars sitting one on top of another on the shelves above my workbench so I want to box a lot of them up too. I also have a large number of freight car kits on the workbench which I probably won't get to for several years so I want to get them out of the way as well.

I will keep a few of the more interesting projects on the workbench, like the brass trolley car and maybe my Aerotrain projects which I just got the interiors for, but the rest is going away for a while so I can work on the many structure kits and scratchbuilding projects that I have lined up. I need open space to do those and that is exactly what I don't have right now.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, March 6, 2021 9:53 PM

I have started a condensed version of the thread for those who are more interested in understanding the basic concept. This thread is at almost 900 posts so expecting someone to read the whole thing in order to find out how I built the rotating benchwork is totally unreasonable. Thanks to IDRick for motivating me to do this.

I'm going to continue to use this thread as the primary location for posting developments as the layout progresses. By doing that, I can avoid diluting the condensed thread with all the enjoyable but not necessarily fully useful banter.

Here is the condensed thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/287007.aspx

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:49 PM

I'm afraid that there won't be much progress on the layout for a while. My broken Achilles tendon (it's healing slowly) still prevents me from working on the layout proper, and my torn left shoulder tendon (not sure if it is healing or not) is too painful to let me work at the workbench. I can still type as long as I keep my left elbow on the arm rest, but that is about all I can do.

Sorry. Your patience is appreciated.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 8:02 PM

I need to reclaim my workbench! It is overflowing with rolling stock boxes and various other detritus. I have decided to order a few Rubbermaid totes so that I can pack a lot of it up and move it to the garage. Of course it's going to add more clutter to the garage, but at least I will have regained my workbench.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 14,457 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, February 28, 2021 3:59 AM

SeeYou190
Dave... I hope you can get well soon. I will be looking forward to more updates when you are able.

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your well wishes.Thumbs Up

Unfortunately the word 'soon' doesn't seem to apply in my situation. Even without surgery my Achilles tendon will likely take months to fully heal, and the same is true for the torn tendon in my left shoulder. Even after two months it still causes pain and my arm is weak. In fact, I'm pushing my luck by typing because after a couple of hours my shoulder is aching. I should learn to shut up but I enjoy the forums so much that the pain is worth it.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 16,515 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, February 26, 2021 2:39 AM

Dave... I hope you can get well soon.

I will be looking forward to more updates when you are able.

Take care of yourself.

-Kevin

Living the dream and happily modeling my STRATTON AND GILLETTE Railroad in HO scale. The SGRR is a freelanced Class A railroad as it would have appeared on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954, in my personal fantasy world of plausible nonsense.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 14,457 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, February 26, 2021 1:20 AM

I saw my surgeon on Thursday regarding my ruptured Achilles tendon. He says that it is apparently healing on its own so I might not need surgery. However, it will be a few months before I can spend any time on my feet working on the layout in the garage.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 6:59 AM

Yes, Rich.   An interesting scenario.   Then I thought about the roads on my layout.  I move my vehicles around to give a little variety to a scene.  The man selling ice cream is in the Industrial Park.   Next week he will probably be selling his wares  near the Timber Merchants.   To get there he will drive along imaginary roads that are 'there' but not made (nor will ever be). Smile

The beauty of modeling.

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 6:41 AM

NorthBrit

I like the scenery to bring life to a railroad and a reason for things to be where they are.  How many times in real life one only gets fleeting glances of a train as it passes?  Knowing a train is there, but cannot see it. 

David, your comment about knowing a train is there but cannot see it brings a thought to mind.

Someone on a limited budget and/or limited space could build a layout, or more appropriately a diorama, with structures and landscaping dominating the scene without even including trains. You could add sound from recordings, perhaps a whiff of smoke, the reflection of a headlight, to simulate a passing train.

I am half joking but by definition I must be half serious. Something to consider in the right situation.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 6:29 AM

richhotrain

 

 
hon30critter
 
richhotrain
Dave, you keep that up and you are not going to be able to see the trains for the structures. 

Hi Rich,

Actually, I think that the density of the structures will be a good thing for precisely that reason. If the structures in the center of the layout are tall enough to partially block the view of the trains on the opposite side of the layout, then I think the fact that the layout is a plain oval will be less obvious. I'm hoping that the structures will serve as sort of a view block so that the trains on the far side of the layout will disappear at least momentarily from the view of the observers on the foreground side of the layout. We shall see.

Dave 

 

 

Agreed.  Yes

 

Rich

 

 

I agree with Dave also.   

I like the scenery to bring life to a railroad and a reason for things to be where they are.  How many times in real life one only gets fleeting glances of a train as it passes?  Knowing a train is there, but cannot see it. Yes

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:55 AM

hon30critter
 
richhotrain
Dave, you keep that up and you are not going to be able to see the trains for the structures. 

Hi Rich,

Actually, I think that the density of the structures will be a good thing for precisely that reason. If the structures in the center of the layout are tall enough to partially block the view of the trains on the opposite side of the layout, then I think the fact that the layout is a plain oval will be less obvious. I'm hoping that the structures will serve as sort of a view block so that the trains on the far side of the layout will disappear at least momentarily from the view of the observers on the foreground side of the layout. We shall see.

Dave 

Agreed.  Yes

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:39 AM

richhotrain
Dave, you keep that up and you are not going to be able to see the trains for the structures.

Hi Rich,

Actually, I think that the density of the structures will be a good thing for precisely that reason. If the structures in the center of the layout are tall enough to partially block the view of the trains on the opposite side of the layout, then I think the fact that the layout is a plain oval will be less obvious. I'm hoping that the structures will serve as sort of a view block so that the trains on the far side of the layout will disappear at least momentarily from the view of the observers on the foreground side of the layout. We shall see.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 23,181 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:14 AM

Dave, you keep that up and you are not going to be able to see the trains for the structures. Laugh

Rich

Alton Junction

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