Hi gang,
A friend who has an N scale layout is looking for searchlight signals but he can't find anything that suits him. I would like to explore making them for him. What size washer would be suitable for an N scale target?
Thanks,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
It's not going to be that simple. Standard washers don't have the right ratio of ID to OD. OD is not large enough.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Hi carl425,
Oh ye of little faith!
Thanks for the great closeup picture.
I'm not expecting to get the size absolutely to scale. Close is good enough.
Here is a first attempt. I'm guess that it would be about 3 1/2 ft in diameter in N scale. I'm using an HO scale ruler:
I used a #6 #4 washer. The ID was easy enough to adjust. I reamed the hole out slightly to accept a 1/8" brass tube, and then I inserted a 3/32" brass tube inside that to get the sun shade closer to the right size. The 1/8" tube sticks out the back a bit but I can cut that off.
I found some 0603 tri-colour pre-wired () LEDs that will fit on the back nicely. I'll have to come up with a way to make the lens so that it shows under the sun shade. Maybe just some rounded off acrylic dowels.
If it is a bit too large I hope the gentleman that I am doing them for (if he wants them) can live with that. Making something smaller is doable but this size is already fussy enough.
How tall should they be?
hon30critterHow tall should they be?
Scroll down to page 68:
http://www.rrsignalpix.com/pdf/GRS_176_sec.pdf
I've got drawings of PRR, NYC and B&O signal masts but none of them are searchlight signals. Probably wouldn't make much difference in actual practice.
Signal_0001 by Edmund, on Flickr
Signal by Edmund, on Flickr
Locations at curves and multiple tracks will call for taller masts, though.
Hope that helps —
Regards, Ed
gmpullmanScroll down to page 68: http://www.rrsignalpix.com/pdf/GRS_176_sec.pdf
Hi Ed,
Thanks!
I'm building signals for the club layout as well as the ones for my friend. I was guessing at the height but now I can make things more accurate. So far I have one prototype set up at the club. I'll get some pictures next Tuesday.
I think you must be a genius at choosing the right search words!
hon30critterI think you must be a genius at choosing the right search words!
Nah, just file that under the blind squirrel finding the occasional nut! I've been fascinated with signals for a long time so I've had some of my "favorite" signal web sites saved.
I admire you for attempting N scale signals ! Sometimes making them in HO is frustrating enough.
Glad you're having FUN! Ed
Based on the diagram in your link, I don't think the head I made is very far off the mark. The diagram doesn't show the exact head diameter but it does show the offset for the heads from the center of the signal poles. That dimension is 27 1/4" and it looks to be about 80% of the width of the head. If I divide 27.25 by .8 = 34". I'm guessing mine are about 36". Good enough for me!!!
Thanks again,
Cheers!!
hon30critterOh ye of little faith!
I never should have underestimated you. It looks like you're well on your way to a convincing model.
Hi again,
Is there a silver paint that is more durable than Testors enamel? I used the Testors silver on a test signal and I found that it took very little handling to mess up the surface and make it go dull. The signals will likely be handled fairly regularly as they are being removed to allow for scenery work etc., and it would be a PITA to have to repaint them all the time.
I tried coating the Testors paint with Dulcote but it didn't seem to solve the problem. The Testors paint just doesn't seem to dry hard.
Thanks
Humbrol makes a couple versions of silver in those tiny cans. I also have some older cans (250ml) of silver and aluminum paint by Armor Coat. It's a Canadian Tire brand, but I can't say for sure if it's still available. It seems to last forever in the cans, although I don't know how durable it is in use. Both of the brands mentioned are meant for brushing - the latter one advises that too much thinning will result in poor coverage, so it's not likely suitable for air brushing.
Wayne
doctorwayneHumbrol makes a couple versions of silver in those tiny cans. I also have some older cans (250ml) of silver and aluminum paint by Armor Coat.
Thanks Wayne,
I'll try the Humbrol first.
I ordered some Humbrol and Tamiya silver paints to see how they perform. I'll post the results when I get around to painting a test signal.
Just to update everyone on my signal construction projects, here are some pictures of the HO scale test sample:
When I made this I was guessing at the dimensions. Since then Ed (gmpullman) has provided me with a drawing of the prototype which includes the proper sizing. The sample is a bit too tall and the lights are a bit too far apart but all of that can be easily adjusted. I have also decided to remake the signal heads with more prototypical sun shades (slightly longer and smaller diameter).
The camera has washed out the LEDs. In reality the colours are pretty good, but the green could be a bit greener.
As far as the N scale signals go, today I received the 0606 tri-colour LEDs. They are incredibly small. My biggest concern is that the LED wires supplied are a bit bigger than the usual magnet wire. I'm not sure if I will be able to feed all the wires down a 1/16" tube, especially if the signal has two heads. We shall see.
Now that I have the LEDs I can experiment with building an N scale signal. Wish me steady hands!!
hon30critter
RR_MelYour signals look GREAT! I really like the socket mounting!
Thanks Mel,
The IC sockets do work quite well. I will just have to caution people that they can't force the sockets together. Anybody who bends a pin will pay dearly!!! The sockets make it really easy to move the signals out of the way for doing layout work. They will be mounted just below the level of the scenery so we will be able to add signal bases above them. I'm not quite sure how we will do that just yet. I'm thinking that we might use resin castings because the available bases are so expensive. The signal shown cost us about $10.00 Cdn to build.
I just purchased some 0606 tri colour LEDs for use in some N scale signals that I'm building (or trying to at least) for the Secretary of the club. The LEDs came with somewhat thicker wires attached. They are definitely larger than #36. I'm not sure if I will be able to get all the wires needed for a double head signal down a 1/16" tube. I'm going to have to be in a good mood before I try! If I have to replace the wires I will just cut the existing wires down to about 1/4" and solder on a #36 magnet wire which will go down the tubes. Trying to solder new wires to the LED pads would be very challenging. I have a Streamlined Backshop LED wiring jig but I doubt that my hands are steady enough to use it for 0606 LEDs.
Oops, wrong thread!
hon30critter RR_Mel Your signals look GREAT! I really like the socket mounting! Thanks Mel, The IC sockets do work quite well. I will just have to caution people that they can't force the sockets together. Anybody who bends a pin will pay dearly!!! The sockets make it really easy to move the signals out of the way for doing layout work. They will be mounted just below the level of the scenery so we will be able to add signal bases above them. I'm not quite sure how we will do that just yet. I'm thinking that we might use resin castings because the available bases are so expensive. The signal shown cost us about $10.00 Cdn to build. I just purchased some 0606 tri colour LEDs for use in some N scale signals that I'm building (or trying to at least) for the Secretary of the club. The LEDs came with somewhat thicker wires attached. They are definitely larger than #36. I'm not sure if I will be able to get all the wires needed for a double head signal down a 1/16" tube. I'm going to have to be in a good mood before I try! If I have to replace the wires I will just cut the existing wires down to about 1/4" and solder on a #36 magnet wire which will go down the tubes. Trying to solder new wires to the LED pads would be very challenging. I have a Streamlined Backshop LED wiring jig but I doubt that my hands are steady enough to use it for 0606 LEDs. Dave
RR_Mel Your signals look GREAT! I really like the socket mounting!
RR_MelBeing careful I can get 5 #36 Litz down 1/16” brass tubing, 6 with lube.
Hi Mel,
I was experimenting with the wires and the 1/16" tubes last night and I can get six of the LED leads into the tube. I can use the brass pole as the common for both LEDs so that gets power to all three colours on both LEDs.
That was feeding the wires straight down from the top of the tube. It remains to be seen whether or not I can feed three wires through a hole in the side of the tube beside the lower signal head and then get the other three wires for the upper signal head to go down from the top. That could be a challenge! I hadn't thought about using a lubricant - thanks.
I have another question. When I was experimenting with applying power to the first LED, I got red and green fine but the yellow blew itself up. I was using two AA cells in series. Is it possible that the yellow LED fried itself on 3 volts or was it maybe defective?
These are the LEDs:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/T0603RGY-20pcs-Pre-soldered-micro-litz-wired-leads-Red-Green-Yellow-SMD-Led-0603/352803555645?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648
There were no instructions with them as usual.
By the way, I was finally able to get my hands on an N scale ruler and the heads I made measure about 44" across. I believe they should be about 34". In reality the heads are only 0.025" off so my friend for whom I am making the signals said to not worry about it. Good thing I'm not cutting gears eh?!?
Made some HO signal heads for the club tonight. They still require filing to finish them.
Last night I realized that the six pin IC sockets won't work for tri-coloured LEDs so I have ordered eight pin sockets. The tri-cloured LEDs require at least seven circuits to show the proper indications.
Okay gang, here we are a month later. The ladders and platform materials finally arrived so I have been able to construct an N scale test signal:
As I said previously, the heads are a little oversized, but I will leave it up to my friend for whom I am building the signals to decide if they are acceptable. Remaking the heads would actually not difficult at all. They are basically just brass washers and tubes.
FYI, the ladders and the platforms are from Gold Metal Models. The platforms are made from their 'Atlas/Con Cor 40' Boxcar detailing set #160-15', and the ladders are made from their 'Freight Car and Industrial Ladders #160-25'.
http://goldmm.com/
The eight pin IC socket will fit into an identical socket which will be mounted below the surface of the layout. That will allow the signals to be removed as needed when work is being done on the layout. The reason for the eight pin socket is that we want the signals to be tri-coloured, and we want the two heads to be able to operate independantly. The HO signals that I showed previously in the thread were originally designed for just two colours, hence the six pin sockets, but we have changed our mind on those so they will be three colours as well.
I have to confess that making the first signal took far longer than I had anticipated, mostly because of my own ineptitude. I managed to solder the lower signal head on side ways and upside down three times before I got it right. Then at one point I was simply trying to adjust the distance between the upper and lower heads. I needed to move the lower bracket up about 1 1/2 scale feet but it wouldn't budge. I guess I pushed a little too hard on the lower signal head mounting bracket and everything including both heads and the mounting brackets slid all the way up the pole and fell off. That got me exactly back to where I had started 20 minutes before! I guess I should have backed off before that happened! Holding the big Weller soldering gun on the signal for more than a couple of seconds was obviously a big no-no.
Here's hoping I can get better at this. I only need to do 6 or 8 N scale signals, but there will be 30+ HO signals to do for the club.
May I ask where you found the 0306 tri-colour LEDs?
Barry
Hi Barry,
I got the LEDs on eBay. Here is the listing:
However, I have decided to use different ones based on RRMel's recommendations. The LEDs above come pre-wired which is great, except that the wires are quite thick when compared to most pre-wired LEDs. The thicker wires won't fit inside the poles on the double head signals. Single head signals are okay.
These are the LEDs that I'm going to use:
https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/bivar-inc/SMTL4-RGY/492-2173-1-ND/6217520
The LEDs are larger but they will still look as though they are just part of the case on the back of the signal heads. They are not pre-wired unfortunately, but that allows me to use magnet wire which is small enough that I can get six wires down the posts even for the two LEDs on double head N scale 1/16" posts. (The posts will serve as the common lead for both LEDs.) Feeding the wires will be a challenge on the N scale signals. It shouldn't be a problem on the HO signals.
I will offer one caveat regarding the N scale signals. I haven't tested the new LEDs to see if the light will project properly through the hole in the target. I'm going to test one tonight and I will let you know. They will be fine on the HO scale heads.
I haven't assembled a head with the SMTL4-RGY LEDs yet but I have tested them by holding a lit one to the back of an N scale target. The light was quite visible even without a lens in place. I plan on using a piece of acrylic rod polished on both ends and then epoxied in place to act as a lens.
I'll assemble one within the next couple of days and post some photos.
hon30critter RR_Mel Being careful I can get 5 #36 Litz down 1/16” brass tubing, 6 with lube. Hi Mel, I was experimenting with the wires and the 1/16" tubes last night and I can get six of the LED leads into the tube. I can use the brass pole as the common for both LEDs so that gets power to all three colours on both LEDs. That was feeding the wires straight down from the top of the tube. It remains to be seen whether or not I can feed three wires through a hole in the side of the tube beside the lower signal head and then get the other three wires for the upper signal head to go down from the top. That could be a challenge! I hadn't thought about using a lubricant - thanks. I have another question. When I was experimenting with applying power to the first LED, I got red and green fine but the yellow blew itself up. I was using two AA cells in series. Is it possible that the yellow LED fried itself on 3 volts or was it maybe defective? These are the LEDs: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/T0603RGY-20pcs-Pre-soldered-micro-litz-wired-leads-Red-Green-Yellow-SMD-Led-0603/352803555645?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648 There were no instructions with them as usual. Thanks, Dave
RR_Mel Being careful I can get 5 #36 Litz down 1/16” brass tubing, 6 with lube.
RR_MelDave 3 volts on the SMTL4 is too high. Here is the spec on the SMTL4
Thanks for catching that! I smoked one already!
I also had a devil of a time getting them to work at first! That was until I realized that I had them wired wrong. I misinterpreted which contact was the common.
IIRC, the resistor values that you posted were based on a 5 volt power supply, therefore with the resistors in place the voltage should be correct. Correct?
Based on the specs for those LEDs, for a 5V power supply I'd suggest 390 ohm for the red and gree, and 220 ohm for the yellow. If the green appears too bright, try a 470 ohm. Differing values to make them appear approximately the same brightness. All values keep them well under the current limit. If you want to just use one value resistor for all of them, 330 or 270 would be good.
BTW, these seem to be close to the colors of those RR CirKits ones, with the proper bluish-green for a railroad signal. They are also about 4x as bright, I didn;t look to see if they have one with these wavelenghts of light but at a lower brightness
https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/bivar-inc/SMTL4-SRGY/492-2193-1-ND/6217527
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.