Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Diameter of N scale searchlight signal head? Update Dec. 3 - First attempt at an N scale double head signal.

9716 views
52 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Monday, December 30, 2019 9:29 PM

gmpullman
While searching I came across this outfit from across the pond:

WowWowWowYeahThumbs UpBig Smile Those catenary bridges are perfect, and they are inexpensive to boot!!!

I don't know how you do it Ed but you always come up with answers to my questions. I'm having trouble finding the right words to express my gratitude.BowBowBowThumbs Up

Happy New Year!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Monday, December 30, 2019 2:46 PM

hon30critter
So, I will keep scratching my head. If anyone has any ideas, please share them.

Hi, Dave

I recalled an outfit that I bought some HO signal bridges from, Model Memories. These were etched brass and very nicely detailed, alas, no N scale.

While searching I came across this outfit from across the pond:

https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/ncat.html

These are catenary supports but you might be able to "kitbash" several of the styles they offer. Lots of other neat stuff for N as well.

Here's a closer look at one type of girder:

https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/zportalbend.html

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, December 29, 2019 11:12 PM

Okay, apparently my cognitive skills have deteriorated more than I had thought.

My friend is modelling modern diesels, so he needs a modern signal bridge. Where I got the idea that he was modelling the steam era heaven knows.Dunce

Anyhow, I have some pictures of modern CN signal bridges so I can get started on the project. Fortunately they are reasonably simple structures.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, December 26, 2019 12:52 AM

I got some suggestions from Ed (gmpullman) about how to build the three track signal bridge. He was also kind enough to offer to look up some pictures of bridges as well. I have found a few dozen pictures but many of them are likely too modern for my friend's needs. Ideally, I would like to get as close as possible to something CN or CP would have used in the steam era.

Ed suggested using an industrial conveyor as a base for the bridge itself. Walthers offers an etched brass kit in HO but not in N. That would have been perfect. He also suggested using Micro Engineering girder kits. I have some spare sprues with the smaller size girders (which Ed gave to me incidentally, thanks again Ed), but despite the overall size being within the proper range, I think that the individual details and components are a bit coarse for N.

So, I will keep scratching my head. If anyone has any ideas, please share them.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Saturday, December 21, 2019 10:30 PM

hon30critter

 

 
BARRY COOPER
When I was working in the winding shop at work we would use a candle to burn the varnish off, then fine sandpaper to clean off the soot.

 

I tried doing that with a lighter but the wire itself burned. Maybe I held the heat on too long.

Dave

 

 

The finer the wire the quicker you need to be. Just using fine sandpaper carefully will work as well. Pinch the wire gently between your finger and the sandpaper and pull the wire out.

Barry

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 21, 2019 9:46 PM

Mark R.
Dave - How come none of your photobucket pictures are showing up ? .... or is it just me ?

Hi Mark,

I just got off the Photobucket site. They had a total power outage a few days ago and it is taking them a long time to restore everyone's service. The problem messed with their back up systems too. They state that they have most of their customers back on line but there are still some without service. I guess I'm one of those lucky ones who isn't back on line yet.

They said that everyone's service should be restored within a few days, and they also stated that they are taking steps to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Computers are wonderful - when they work!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
  • 3,574 posts
Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, December 21, 2019 9:28 PM

Dave - How come none of your photobucket pictures are showing up ? .... or is it just me ?

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 21, 2019 8:57 PM

BARRY COOPER
When I was working in the winding shop at work we would use a candle to burn the varnish off, then fine sandpaper to clean off the soot.

I tried doing that with a lighter but the wire itself burned. Maybe I held the heat on too long.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Saturday, December 21, 2019 5:49 PM

hon30critter
BARRY COOPER
Soldering #36 wire on surface mount leds is an exercise in patience. It's like working with very fine hair.

 

Hi Barry,

I have had the most trouble with trying to remove the varnish insulation from the magnet wires. My XYtronic pencil iron set at 700 degrees F doesn't seem to do a very good job, so I have resorted to using my Weller gun on high. It does the trick quite nicely.

Dave

 

When I was working in the winding shop at work we would use a candle to burn the varnish off, then fine sandpaper to clean off the soot.

Now I just solder right through the varnish. It works well enough.

Barry

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, December 21, 2019 1:32 AM

BARRY COOPER
Soldering #36 wire on surface mount leds is an exercise in patience. It's like working with very fine hair.

Hi Barry,

I have had the most trouble with trying to remove the varnish insulation from the magnet wires. My XYtronic pencil iron set at 700 degrees F doesn't seem to do a very good job, so I have resorted to using my Weller gun on high. It does the trick quite nicely.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Friday, December 20, 2019 11:31 PM

hon30critter

 

 
BARRY COOPER
I have a single head mast wired up and working. 

 

That looks good Barry!

Dave

 

I have a double head mast wired and working as well. I don't have pictures yet. I can slide 8 #36 magnet wire through the mast with no problem. I'm running the positive common lead for both heads through the mast. I will post pictures after I get the ladders on and painting done.

Soldering #36 wire on surface mount leds is an exercise in patience. It's like working with very fine hair.

Barry

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, December 20, 2019 11:17 PM

BARRY COOPER
I have a single head mast wired up and working. 

That looks good Barry!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Friday, December 20, 2019 12:02 PM

I have a single head mast wired up and working. 

Green aspectYellow aspectRed aspect

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM

Target mounted on the mast.

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:20 AM

hon30critter

 

 
 

 

Hi Barry,

That's how I do it. I solder the brass tube that will be the sun shade into the larger tube and then cut it off a bit longer than needed. The next step is to shape the sun shade with the cutting disc and then file the burrs and excess solder off with a needle file. Once the target is presentable I cut it off flush at the back so the LED can sit right up next to the back of the target.

These are similar to the discs I use for both cutting and shaping the brass tube. They cut very quickly:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-PCS-22mm-Emery-Diamond-cutting-blades-Drill-Bit-1-Mandrel-for-Dremel-Set/143091562548?hash=item2150ebf834:g:I6wAAOSwEfVcPXk-

One other thing I do is use a small pair of vice grips to hold the washer when I'm doing any cutting. That prevents things from getting hot enough to melt the solder, and it keeps my fingers away from the cutting disc.

Dave

 

I file by hand and cut the tubes with a jeweler's saw. That saves my fingers a lot of grief. I chew them up enough when woodworking. I think I like the slightly slower pace and it gives me better control.

Barry

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 5:46 PM

BARRY COOPER
WooHoo. I figured it out. Looking at everything under magnification I think I should finish filing the sunshield after attaching it to the mast.

Hi Barry,

That's how I do it. I solder the brass tube that will be the sun shade into the larger tube and then cut it off a bit longer than needed. The next step is to shape the sun shade with the cutting disc and then file the burrs and excess solder off with a needle file. Once the target is presentable I cut it off flush at the back so the LED can sit right up next to the back of the target.

These are similar to the discs I use for both cutting and shaping the brass tube. They cut very quickly:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-PCS-22mm-Emery-Diamond-cutting-blades-Drill-Bit-1-Mandrel-for-Dremel-Set/143091562548?hash=item2150ebf834:g:I6wAAOSwEfVcPXk-

One other thing I do is use a small pair of vice grips to hold the washer when I'm doing any cutting. That prevents things from getting hot enough to melt the solder, and it keeps my fingers away from the cutting disc.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 2:48 PM

hon30critter

 

 
BARRY COOPER
I just built my first n-scale signal target. I think I need to build a couple of jigs to make things easier. I would post a picture but I can't figure it out right now.

 

Hi Barry, I'd like to compare notes on how you made your targets. Mine are pretty much freehand so there are minor variations from one to the next, but they are so minor that nobody will notice.

There are instructions on the top of the General Discussion page on how to post photos. Basically, you will need a photo hosting site like Imgur (free) or Photobucket (small fee). You transfer your photos to the hosting site, then copy the image address from the 'Direct' or 'Direct Link' line beside the picture. When you are writing your post you will see an icon that looks like a mountain with the sun. Once you have copied the photo address, click on the mountain icon and paste the address into the appropriate line in the pop up window. Then hit 'Okay' and the picture should appear in your post.

Dave

 

WooHoo. I figured it out. Looking at everything under magnification I think I should finish filing the sunshield after attaching it to the mast.

 

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 12:30 PM

I

hon30critter

 

 
BARRY COOPER
I just built my first n-scale signal target. I think I need to build a couple of jigs to make things easier. I would post a picture but I can't figure it out right now.

 

Hi Barry, I'd like to compare notes on how you made your targets. Mine are pretty much freehand so there are minor variations from one to the next, but they are so minor that nobody will notice.

Dave

 
 
I've just been using a calibrated eyeball with a scale ruler. There will be variations, but then again, if I'm happy they're good. I think I copied your method. File out a #4 washer, solder in a 1/8 tube, file a 1/16 tube to a sunshade (ish) shape and solder that into the target assembly. The assembly is soldered onto the mast. I should have the LEDs this afternoon. I need those to determine where the searchlight is attached to the mast. Solder #36 magnet wire to the LED and feed those into a hole on the mast and out the bottom. Attach resistors and I should be good to go. I still need to get ladders and platforms.
I'm kind of designing on the fly and assessing as I go. I grabbed a copy of the GRS type SC doc that Mel (I think) posted. That has been very useful. I will need to clean the brass before I paint them. I've been using acid flux when soldering. The solder itself is SAC305 0.020". My jig is just a piece of hickory with holes drilled to make holding things easier when cutting and filling.
 
Barry
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:58 AM

Does anyone make N scale riveted gusset plates?

I have volunteered to scratch build an N scale three track signal bridge for a friend. I plan on using brass. I can make gusset plates from brass sheet no problem, but adding the rivet detail could get really tedious really fast.

Any suggestions?

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, December 17, 2019 11:22 PM

BARRY COOPER
I just built my first n-scale signal target. I think I need to build a couple of jigs to make things easier. I would post a picture but I can't figure it out right now.

Hi Barry, I'd like to compare notes on how you made your targets. Mine are pretty much freehand so there are minor variations from one to the next, but they are so minor that nobody will notice.

There are instructions on the top of the General Discussion page on how to post photos. Basically, you will need a photo hosting site like Imgur (free) or Photobucket (small fee). You transfer your photos to the hosting site, then copy the image address from the 'Direct' or 'Direct Link' line beside the picture. When you are writing your post you will see an icon that looks like a mountain with the sun. Once you have copied the photo address, click on the mountain icon and paste the address into the appropriate line in the pop up window. Then hit 'Okay' and the picture should appear in your post.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Saturday, December 14, 2019 2:49 PM

I just built my first n-scale signal target. I think I need to build a couple of jigs to make things easier.

I would post a picture but I can't figure it out right now.

 

Barry

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, December 14, 2019 8:57 AM

Randy
 
The values are for my Eye after cataract surgery (6 months) so I think the colors are pretty close to equal.
 
I ended up with the following @ 5 volts using my Arduino power.
 
2ma for red
 
12.5ma for Yellow
 
4ma for green
 
The Yellow takes more current to equal the Red & Green brightness
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, December 13, 2019 10:55 PM

rrinker
Based on the specs for those LEDs, for a 5V power supply I'd suggest 390 ohm for the red and gree, and 220 ohm for the yellow.

Hi Randy,

RRMel, who recommended the Bivar SMTL4-RGY LEDs, suggested using the following values to get the brightness of all three colours to be similar @ 5 volts:

Red - 1K ohms

Green - 560 ohms

Yellow - 180 ohms

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, December 13, 2019 9:48 PM

 Based on the specs for those LEDs, for a 5V power supply I'd suggest 390 ohm for the red and gree, and 220 ohm for the yellow. If the green appears too bright, try a 470 ohm. Differing values to make them appear approximately the same brightness. All values keep them well under the current limit. If you want to just use one value resistor for all of them, 330 or 270 would be good.

BTW, these seem to be close to the colors of those RR CirKits ones, with the proper bluish-green for a railroad signal. They are also about 4x as bright, I didn;t look to see if they have one with these wavelenghts of light but at a lower brightness

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/bivar-inc/SMTL4-SRGY/492-2193-1-ND/6217527

 

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, December 13, 2019 6:47 PM

RR_Mel
Dave   3 volts on the SMTL4 is too high.  Here is the spec on the SMTL4

Hi Mel,

Thanks for catching that! I smoked one already!Dunce

I also had a devil of a time getting them to work at first! That was until I realized that I had them wired wrong. I misinterpreted which contact was the common.DunceGrumpyDunceEmbarrassed

IIRC, the resistor values that you posted were based on a 5 volt power supply, therefore with the resistors in place the voltage should be correct. Correct?

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, December 13, 2019 8:53 AM

hon30critter

 

 
RR_Mel
Being careful I can get 5 #36 Litz down 1/16” brass tubing, 6 with lube.

 

Hi Mel,

I was experimenting with the wires and the 1/16" tubes last night and I can get six of the LED leads into the tube. I can use the brass pole as the common for both LEDs so that gets power to all three colours on both LEDs. 

That was feeding the wires straight down from the top of the tube. It remains to be seen whether or not I can feed three wires through a hole in the side of the tube beside the lower signal head and then get the other three wires for the upper signal head to go down from the top. That could be a challenge! I hadn't thought about using a lubricant - thanks.

I have another question. When I was experimenting with applying power to the first LED, I got red and green fine but the yellow blew itself up. I was using two AA cells in series. Is it possible that the yellow LED fried itself on 3 volts or was it maybe defective?

These are the LEDs:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/T0603RGY-20pcs-Pre-soldered-micro-litz-wired-leads-Red-Green-Yellow-SMD-Led-0603/352803555645?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648

There were no instructions with them as usual.

Thanks,

Dave

 

Dave
 
3 volts on the SMTL4 is too high.  Here is the spec on the SMTL4
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, December 12, 2019 4:46 PM

Hi Barry,

I haven't assembled a head with the SMTL4-RGY LEDs yet but I have tested them by holding a lit one to the back of an N scale target. The light was quite visible even without a lens in place. I plan on using a piece of acrylic rod polished on both ends and then epoxied in place to act as a lens.

I'll assemble one within the next couple of days and post some photos.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 14 posts
Posted by BARRY COOPER on Wednesday, December 11, 2019 9:07 PM
Have you had a chance to try the new LEDs in the n-scale searchlight yet? I have brass coming but have not ordered LEDs yet. Barry
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:35 PM

The SMTL4-RGY has increased in price since I bought mine.  I bought mine from Mouser for $1.27 each about a year ago.  Mouser was 3¢ each cheaper than the other sellers.  As I remember there was a pretty good price break at 25.
 
I soldered #36 Litz wire to the SMTL4-RGY off eBay, 20meters of four colors for under $7 free S&H.
 
Soldering the #36 wire was a piece of cake, I didn’t ding any soldering them.
 
EDIT:
 
Dave, I really like your socket mount!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!