Hey everyone! I have read a few threads on ballast here but am still searching for one that matches my area. I went out and took a picture today for reference. The one that looks the closest to me is Pink Lady from Superior Scenics. What do you think?
My YouTube - Paradox Railroad
Tough to choose. Maybe a blend of Pink, Saddle and Sandy brown? Perhaps Superior Scenics offers samples? Real rock products can darken after the fixative is applied.
Regards, Peter
HO-VeloReal rock products can darken after the fixative is applied.
Dukes, Peter makes a good point. I know that my ballast darkened (which didn't bother me). You may want to buy several different colored small containers and try putting whatever fixative you're going to use on them to see which one you may want.
York1 John
HO-VeloMaybe a blend of Pink, Saddle and Sandy brown?
Yes, it certainly seems to be a mix. I think the woodland scenics its much to uniform and the Arizona Rock and Mineral did not have any that looked quite right.
Hello All,
I harvest my own HO ballast from a nearby source.
The area is a low lying parking lot adjacent to a hillside. The runoff from the hillside collects in this area.
The size of the particles run from what could best be described as pea-gravel size to fine sand.
I collect this material in 5-gallon buckets, bring it home wash, sift and sort into various sizes.
You can find garden sieves, with progressively finer mesh, on Amazon, ebay and gold panning shops.
The final harvested products have the multi-colored appearance in your photos.
Because of the location of the source, near abandoned gold mines, it is not uncommon to find flakes of gold. Not enough to be profitable but it's exciting to see those little pieces.
Look for a low lying area adjacent to the tracks you wish to model. Ideally you are looking for any runoff particles from the prototypical ballast. Initially this material might appear to be just dirt.
After collecting the material rinse it well and begin the sifting process.
For N scale ballast a common kitchen strainer would probably a size that is close to your needs- -think medium to coarse sand.
Adding back in some of the larger particles might give you the appearance you are looking for, all for the price of the sifters.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit, That is a great idea! I will have to look around for a spot like you described. I have actaully done a little gold panning so I have a few sifters and things around. It's always fun to find gold even if its just a little! The rail line in my pictures is quite old, its the same line built by the Rutland Railroad in the 1800's. Its no doubt seen many different kinds of ballast over time, as the type of rock mined and moved in Vermont has changed over time.
While as the photo shows, a close look at ballast shows many different shades and colors, the more you back away from it the more subtle those differences become. Get far enough away and it becomes much more uniform looking.
You want to avoid a "salt and pepper" look. Years ago there was an article in MR about blending ballast but I cannot seem to find it in the online index (which rarely works entirely anyway). One way to get there is to use different companies' ballast of the same basic shade since those subtle differences will be inherent in different sources. For example many firms offer C&NW "pink lady" ballast but no two are exactly the same. (And the color of pink lady changed the deeper the original excavations got into the hillside that was the supply source).
As to brands for N, I really liked Highball ballast and used it selectively in HO, but it has become hard to find to be sure. Many guys in N seem to like Scenic Express's ballast.
Dave Nelson
I think the OPs best bet would be to use a blend of different balast colors. The Superior scenics stuff looked really close, but based off the pictures on their website (which may or may not be good quality) I think the pinks are too muted and grey for you prototype. Maybe you could use that as a base and add a darker pink color from another brand. I think it would be a great idea to do some testing.
I have only balasted one time, and it didn't work out too well. I use a medium grade light grey balast from woodland scenics. It had three big issues. One, is was all one color, which made it look very boring and unrealistic to me, second it was too big, I felt like alot less individual stones fit between each tie than I see on the real thing, and third, it floated up on the water and glue mixture I used to secure it in place. Next time I do balasting I will definately use a mix of colors that is finer and also real rock of something else that won't move as easily.
Hope this was helpful!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
SPSOT fan ...and third, it floated up on the water and glue mixture I used to secure it in place....
If your ballast floats, it's usually due to insufficient pre-wetting. While many use alcohol as a pre-wetting agent, it seems to me that it evapourates too quickly, especially if you're doing fairly long stretches of track, not to mention the added expense. I use ordinary tap water with a few drops of dish detergent, applied using a sprayer capable of delivering a fairly fine mist of droplets. First spray is upwards, letting the droplets simply fall, then, once the ballast has been dampened, it can be sprayed directly. I have many areas where the ballast and sub-ballast is quite deep, and spray until the water appears at the bottom of the material. It would seem that you can't make it too wet. Once sufficiently wetted, the ballast will not float, and when the glue has dried (several days where ballast is deep), the ballast and sub-ballast will be hard right through, not just a hardened crust on the top....
Wayne
Dukes I think the woodland scenics its much to uniform and the Arizona Rock and Mineral did not have any that looked quite right.
Hi, Dukes
I model in HO and, for my tastes, most ballast marketed for HO is too coarse for me. I was spoiled by having Smith & Son's ballast (they were the original suppliers to Scenic Express) right down the road from me. I did stock up on Highball ballast any time I found it at train shows. I've tried several types of Woodland Scenics ballast and did not care for them at all.
Which brings me to your mentioning Arizona Rock & Mineral. A few years ago I decided to try some of their offerings. One of the several I chose was called Kaibab and they listed it as a New York Central ballast although I don't ever recall seeing this particular color used anywhere on the NYC.
AZ_Ballast1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Above you see the HO Kaibab ballast as it comes out of the bag.
AZ_Ballast by Edmund, on Flickr
This scene uses Kaibab HO along the edges of the left track and N scale, 50% Kaibab and 50% medium gray Highball ballast blended used between the ties and tie ends. Then N scale cinders from Highball on the right track.
AZ_Ballast2 by Edmund, on Flickr
Here is a close-up of the 50/50 N scale mix and straight HO Kaibab on the berms.
AZ_Ballast3 by Edmund, on Flickr
IF you decide to try a commercial brand the Kaibab from Arizona might be a good match for you. Of course, scenery choices are subjective and my photos may reproduce differently due to lighting or computer monitor variables.
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullmanIF you decide to try a commercial brand the Kaibab from Arizona might be a good match for you. Of course, scenery choices are subjective and my photos may reproduce differently due to lighting or computer monitor variables.
I have to say that I like the color variation in the Kaibib. The fact that its called Limestone also fits with the New York - New England area. Thanks for the clear photos, I think this is what I'm going to go with!
I am a die hard Arizona Rock and Minerals fan. Real rock, not the WS walnut shells. Never used any other brand for ballast.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearmanReal rock, not the WS walnut shells.
Agree 100%.
DukesI have to say that I like the color variation in the Kaibib.
I hope it works out for you. It doesn't hurt to have a few bags of complimentary colors or larger sizes for use in culverts or along the edges of the right-of-way.
Maybe a little tricky in N scale but I sometimes "weather" the ballast after it is dry with a light overspray, using an airbrush, of shades of dark gray. On some roads the predominant uphill track was much lighter in color due to the constant application of sand from the locomotive sanders operating.
Look at the variations here, from bright white to nearly jet-black due to age, oil leaks, fresh ballast re-applications, etc.
Rails_0004 copy 2 by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
I concur.
Rocks sink. Nut shells float.
Which would you rather use after you have broken the surface tension, then adding liquid adhesive of your choice on top
TF
Arizona rock and mineral fan here too , ain't no better.
We have 300 kinzau and pit run.
Must be me, I have never had a problem with WS ballast floating. I don't care what the stuff is made out of, if it looks right. The grey is a good match for actual pieces I've picked up trackside. The actual quarry where much of the Reading's ballast was obtained from is operational again and NS hauls long trains of ballast cars out of there. Probbaly could get some spillage where they park the cars if I wanted to chop real rock up fine enough for HO scale, but I'd rather not.
Also had no issues with alcohol or glue/water causing any dyes that might be used to run or discolor the ties.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker Must be me, I have never had a problem with WS ballast floating. I don't care what the stuff is made out of, if it looks right. The grey is a good match for actual pieces I've picked up trackside. The actual quarry where much of the Reading's ballast was obtained from is operational again and NS hauls long trains of ballast cars out of there. Probbaly could get some spillage where they park the cars if I wanted to chop real rock up fine enough for HO scale, but I'd rather not.
I have used both Woodland Scenics and, more recently, Scenic Express. I ain't never going back to Woodland Scenics Ballast.
Rich
Alton Junction
If your Woodland Scenics ballast is floating, it's because of insufficient pre-wetting. If you're using alcohol as a wetting agent, it may be evapourating before you get to the step when the diluted glue is added.I always use water with a few drops of dish detergent, and apply enough so that it actually runs out from even the deepest applications of ballast, such as this...
Looking at the OPs original post the ballast looks nearly right.
As for gluing it down? I have gone against the rules. On my layout I do not glue the ballast down. It has been down for over 12 years on Sovereign Street layout. The only thing is is that it has discolored over time like the real railroads.
My other layouts have never had ballast glued down and my locomotives have never faltered because of it. Most of my locomotives are getting on for fifty years old.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
rrinker Must be me, I have never had a problem with WS ballast floating. I don't care what the stuff is made out of, if it looks right. The grey is a good match for actual pieces I've picked up trackside.
Me either. I have used N Scale Woodland Scenics ballast -- a mixture of shades of gray.
I have never had it float or move.
Not sure what I did wrong.
York1 rrinker Must be me, I have never had a problem with WS ballast floating. I don't care what the stuff is made out of, if it looks right. The grey is a good match for actual pieces I've picked up trackside. Me either. I have used N Scale Woodland Scenics ballast -- a mixture of shades of gray. I have never had it float or move. Not sure what I did wrong.
I will offer this defense. Most of my ballasting with Woodland Scenics Ballast was done when I was a newbie to HO scale modeling. Back then, I used a spoon to apply the glue mix after spraying the ballast with isopropyl alcohol.
On my new layout, I use Scenic Express rock ballast and I apply the glue mix with an eye dropper. That likely makes all the difference.
richhotrainI apply the glue mix with an eye dropper.
That's what I do, too. I bought some eye droppers at Walgreens for $2.00 for three of them.
It is slow, but I had no experience when I began and I tried spraying -- I made a mess. I decided that slow would have to be what I lived with.
AN eye dropper seemed too tedious for me. There is ont brand of mustard we get around here that comes in a bottle with a twist open spoint that is TINY, not like most brands. It only lets a very thin trickle of mustard out when wide open - nearly closed, it drips out the thinned glue like an eye dropper, except it's a 16 oz container. I use straight 70% isopropyl in a misting sprayer to wet it, then I apply the glue (also thinned with alocohol, I have NEVER gotten the dish soap in water method to work) like Cody Grivno shows in several videos - along the outside, and I let it wich in to the center. That way I am not dribbling glue on the ties which gives tham a pasty white finish when it dries. If the ballast is sufficiently wetted with the alcohol, the glue mix sucks right in. Diluting the glue with alocohol makes it dry to a sort of rubbery consistency, not solid, which seems to avoid the "now that I ballasted, the track is loud" issues.
rrinker An eye dropper seemed too tedious for me.
An eye dropper seemed too tedious for me.
A turkey baster will probably make a big puddle. I tried looking for a smilar bottle without the mustard, but all of them seem to have too big (and not adjustable) opening - not to mention an empty bottle costs more than one full of mustard, so it would be even cheaper to just buy the bnustard and dump all the mustard out if you don't like mustard.
Likely available anywhere - the mustard company is located in Chicago. But, it appears they have changed their plastic bottles and they no longer have the fine tip on them. Guess I will need to try some alternative if I can't find the one I have.
More change for the sake of change. The old ones were just fine, and kept you from puting giant globs of mustard on things when you didn't intend to. The new one looks like it might be slightly adjustable, but overall much larger than before, so even barely cracking it will probably result in more glue mix coming out than the old bottle. It's Plochman's mustard, BTW.
These look like they might work:
https://www.amazon.com/Hobbyland-Squeeze-Bottles-Twist-Cap/dp/B06XXQ92BC/ref=sr_1_59_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=sauce+bottles&qid=1606609548&sr=8-59-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRE9MT0tUNEhVVjlBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzE0OTA0MjhRREkyQzZIQThRNCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDM0NDg3MU0xU0JSWVFQVzE0NSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2J0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
An old Elmer's glu bottle would work too, the ones with the round twist cap. They close down pretty small. Buy the glue by the gallon jug to save money, but use the small bottles as a dispenser.
rrinker A turkey baster will probably make a big puddle. I tried looking for a smilar bottle without the mustard, but all of them seem to have too big (and not adjustable) opening - not to mention an empty bottle costs more than one full of mustard, so it would be even cheaper to just buy the bnustard and dump all the mustard out if you don't like mustard.
richhotrainIt is late...
C'mon, Rich, it wasn't really late when you wrote that, and now, two hours later, it's still not anywhere near late. My interpretation of late is when daytime office drones are getting up to go to work for 9:00AM...by then, I'm almost ready for bedtime.
I mix the white glue with water in a gallon jug, then pour some of it into the larger container shown below (it originally contained matte medium)...
The flip-up top and smaller opening makes it ideal for filling the small dropper bottle shown alongside. The dropper container's screw-on top also has a lift-up feature to allow drop-by-drop application, or, with a light squeeze, faster application when doing deep ballast or if you're doing simple stuff like mainlines or double track with no turnouts.It would be nice if it were bigger, but it's very easy to handle and to control, and re-filling it takes only a few seconds.
The time-consuming part of ballasting is the grooming, but once that's done, wetting the ballast takes only a minute or two, and the glue application is fun and easy. Depending on how deep the ballast is, drying may take up to a week. For most layouts, that's the time you can use for other model railroading chores.
doctorwayne richhotrain It is late... C'mon, Rich, it wasn't really late when you wrote that, and now, two hours later, it's still not anywhere near late. My interpretation of late is when daytime office drones are getting up to go to work for 9:00AM...by then, I'm almost ready for bedtime.
richhotrain It is late...
doctorwayne The time-consuming part of ballasting is the grooming, but once that's done, wetting the ballast takes only a minute or two, and the glue application is fun and easy. Depending on how deep the ballast is, drying may take up to a week. For most layouts, that's the time you can use for other model railroading chores.
doctorwayneIf your Woodland Scenics ballast is floating, it's because of insufficient pre-wetting.
Or not. The lightweight particles in WS ballast seem sensitive to everything from the hardness of the water to how much static is in the air (which affects how it cooperates when brushing it into place before gluing). No matter how much or what type of wetting agent I tried, I never got results from WS ballast that I found to be satisfactory, so I now exclusively use real rock. Given how many hobbyists have problems using WS ballast, I steer people away from it unless they absolutely insist on using it.
Lakeview Structures 1 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Lakeview Structures 1
Rob Spangler