Found this idea on the net but was written up in Kalmbach's "Model Railroad Planning 2018". The issue featured Doug Tagsold's Colorado & Southern. The premise is using HO gauge equipment to represent 1/72 scale narrow gauge.http://smallmr.com/wordpress/doug-tagsolds-colorado-southern-narrowgauge-modelrailroad-modelrail-train/ Liking out-of-the-box thinking this is my take on the idea:http://www.chainsawjunction.com/172n4/Thank you if you VisitHarold
Took me a minute to realize that while the modeler wouldn't be able to make much use of established Model Railroad scale items (HO, S, or even OO), there is a lot of military modeling in 1/72 scale from which they can obtain vehicles, figures, and even structures (used in dioramas and the like).
Objects aren't "N, HO...S, O, etc. SCALE". An object is what it measures.
That has to be the attitude to go "out-of-the-box", there are lots of resources out there.
Harold
That is a great idea. I have been wanting to build another narrow gauge layout, but the HO narrow stuff is too small. I've been looking at Sn3 again, but i think I'm going to research this more. Thanks for the idea and the links.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
hminkyObjects aren't "N, HO...S, O, etc. SCALE". An object is what it measures. That has to be the attitude to go "out-of-the-box", there are lots of resources out there.
Obviously an HO car isn't going to measure to a different scale.
chutton01 hminky Objects aren't "N, HO...S, O, etc. SCALE". An object is what it measures. That has to be the attitude to go "out-of-the-box", there are lots of resources out there. Well, yes and no.Models of prototypes with somewhat variable dimensions or sizes, such a bulk oil storage tank, can represent a smallish tank in 1/72 or a larger tank in 1/87 (HO) (The length ratio is about 83%) However, given a 1930 Ford Model A Tudor with a wheelbase of close to 103.5 inches, that same 103.5in wheelbase in HO works out to 85.6in in 1/72 scale, which will look noticibly odd if not downright silly - so you need a 1/72 scale Ford Tudor model.
hminky Objects aren't "N, HO...S, O, etc. SCALE". An object is what it measures. That has to be the attitude to go "out-of-the-box", there are lots of resources out there.
Well, yes and no.Models of prototypes with somewhat variable dimensions or sizes, such a bulk oil storage tank, can represent a smallish tank in 1/72 or a larger tank in 1/87 (HO) (The length ratio is about 83%) However, given a 1930 Ford Model A Tudor with a wheelbase of close to 103.5 inches, that same 103.5in wheelbase in HO works out to 85.6in in 1/72 scale, which will look noticibly odd if not downright silly - so you need a 1/72 scale Ford Tudor model.
I think what harold is saying is the exact opposite - at whatever scale the model measures a 103.5" wheelbase, that's the scale the model is, regardless of what might be printed on the package. Compare the actual measurement to the prototype measurement, that's what scale the object is.
You can;t carry this to absurdity, and just arbitrarily decide some scale ratio to use, unless you plan to make most things yourself, but as harold has shown, there are plenty of scales not traditionally used for Model Railroading that have plenty of opportunity for taking commonly available items and adapting them to this other scale because they happen to scale out to perfectly plausible dimensions in that non-traditional scale.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Got my copy of "Model Railroad Planning 2018" and Doug Tagsold's Colorado & Southern is a really great layout. Scale1/72 gives inexpensive almost ready-to-run narrow gauge.The Roundhouse/MDC/Athearn equipment looks really great.Went into the seventh level of my ungodly abyss of a train room and extracted some Roundhouse cars:What more can I ask narrow gauge 4-4-0's and C-class 2-8-0's? Cheap, available narrow gauge in a large enough small scale to permit viable layout building.Thanks Doug for bringing this brilliant idea to light. Can smell layout building.We have a scale to download:http://www.chainsawjunction.com/172n4/172scale.pdfThanks if you visit the website.http://www.chainsawjunction.com/172n4/Harold
But (to me) it doesn't look like narrow gage. It looks like small standard gage. I have one narrow gage HO loco: NCNG #9, a 2-8-0. I can still work with that size. If I had to go larger, I'd probably go to On3, because there's a lot out there already.
To me, the idea just isn't convincing.
Obviously, if it's convincing to you..........
Ed
7j43k If I had to go larger, I'd probably go to On3, because there's a lot out there already.
Since Doug Tagsold had already dismantled a large On3 layout in his life time here is his reasoning from the MRP 2018:
Looks like narrow gauge to me.
On3 means cubic money. New ideas are not everyone's cup of tea.
Almost had this idea back in 2007 but was going for OO scale/4mm on HO track or 4'-1" gauge but the mechanicals weren't right. Never thought of 1/72, d-oh! It was right there in front of me, those are 1/72 figures.
Doug's idea is inexpensive and easy to do.
To me everything looks like narrow gauge.
This idea really does work.If you have imagination and not rigid in thinking.Harold
7j43kBut (to me) it doesn't look like narrow gage. It looks like small standard gage.
I agree. It's really HO with slightly larger buildings and people. And since the details like grab iron size and spacing are still HO, you need to keep the people away from it.
Looking at the pictures in the MRP 2018, it just doesn't look like narrow gauge, it looks like a late 19th century standard gauge railroad.
Paul
IRONROOSTER 7j43k But (to me) it doesn't look like narrow gage. It looks like small standard gage. I agree. It's really HO with slightly larger buildings and people. And since the details like grab iron size and spacing are still HO, you need to keep the people away from it. Looking at the pictures in the MRP 2018, it just doesn't look like narrow gauge, it looks like a late 19th century standard gauge railroad. Paul
7j43k But (to me) it doesn't look like narrow gage. It looks like small standard gage.
You can either see that it works or you don't see that it works.
To me it always worked just couldn't find the scale that works best.
If you can't see narrow gauge just keep what you are doing.
The grab iron spacing does work out.
'nough said
Using HO track and equipment for narrow gage modeling can certainly be done: witness On30.
But if you wanted to use HO track to model a REAL (US) narrow gage, you would get 1/55 if you model 3 foot, and 1/37 if you modeled 2 foot.
The latter is quite close to 1/35, which is a very common military modeling scale. In case you don't want to model 2 foot railroading in Maine encountering a substantial armored presence (a REAL modeling opportunity, there!), there also appear to be an assortment of cars and people.
If you go the three foot route, I guess you could use 1/48 people and say "they grow tall around here". A 6 foot human is 1.5" in O scale, and 1.3" in 1/55.
7j43k Using HO track and equipment for narrow gage modeling can certainly be done: witness On30. But if you wanted to use HO track to model a REAL (US) narrow gage, you would get 1/55 if you model 3 foot, and 1/37 if you modeled 2 foot.
Never heard of this 55n3 or On30 of which you speak? Really, give me a break.
This isn't my first narrow gauge rodeo, had the number one On30 website ever since 2004:
https://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/
Came up with the term 55n3 in 2010:
http://www.55n3.info/
Had an Sn3.5 website in 2007 and revived about a month ago:
http://www.chainsawjunction.com/sn3_5/
Believe me, this is the most inexpensive and easiest way to model narrow gauge.
This is the same nonsense I heard in 2004 with On30, yeah all you guys said On30 was wrong. All the pickers of nits decried 55n3 as why reinvent the wheel in 2010. Sn3.5 has always been "wrong".
No, this is the best narrow gauge idea yet.
Oh. THIS is the best narrow gauge idea yet. Not all the others.
Unless, of course, you actually want to model 3' gauge. Then, maybe not so much.
7j43k Oh. THIS is the best narrow gauge idea yet. Not all the others. Unless, of course, you actually want to model 3' gauge. Then, maybe not so much.
This idea doesn't involve cubic money, great modeling skills or huge spaces, everything else requires one or all of the above.
That was the original draw to On30 it was affordable and easy. Now On30 costs as much as all the other narrow gauge and does require a lot of space. The other failing of On30 was there was never affordable structures requiring everything from scratch.
It is back to narrow gauge for everyone.
Our work-in-progress beta Mantua early boxcar conversion, $11 toy train box car to 24 foot 1880's narrow gauge boxcar buildable in an evening.Finally, affordable and easy 1880's narrow gauge. Wooden cars and iron men!Harold
We need moguls for early narrow gauge.The Roundhouse Mogul has two versions the more common high wheeler and a scarcer low driver version which has a 1/72 43" drivers. They mechanically match early narrow gauge moguls .The boiler is easily lowered and smaller drivers applied. The cab is the right size.Harold
Cleaning up my train room I ran across this Bachmann HO ten-wheeler.Looked Tweetsie, having a plan already in my bin I printed out a 1/72 scale drawing.Yep, with a little bit of work we can be in the blue ridges with room to have real mountains.Harold
Bigger 1/72 cabs are required to remove the HO look. That is a cab I built for making the Roundhouse HOn3 locomotive Sn2. Learning a 3d CAD modeling program and have the cab printed out probably would take less time.Harold
Back to the fun!The Tichy HO ore car would make a great coal "jimmy". Can be had for $5 a piece on the street.Always wanted to find a use for these great little cars.Harold
"Objects aren't "N, HO...S, O, etc. SCALE". An object is what it measures."Wanting a engine crew for my 4-4-0 I found some Bachmann Branchline OO Scale figures from the UK.Things are sometimes better than what the box says. The second guy from the right is our new OO scale Bachmann Branchline figure. The guys on his right and left are Preiser 1/72. The guy on the far left is a Langley Victorian OO.Sometimes you need little wins in lifeHarold
Designed a direct replacement 1/72 cab for the Bachmann HO 4-4-0 and had a 3d print made.3d printing is great.Harold
There are drivers and axles available from places like Scalelink in the UK to reshoe our iron horses.These are 12mm which will give us Scale172 36" drivers. Scalelink has 3mm self quartering axles for the newer Roundhouse/Athearn locomotives along with 1/8" for the older original models. Self quartering makes locomotive building easy.The internet is great.Correct drivers and a bigger cabs are needed to remove the HO look. This is a cab I built from styrene to convert the Roundhouse HOn3 2-8-0 to Sn2. Learning a 3d CAD modeling program and have the cab printed out probably would take less time. Harold
What about standard gauge?Sn3 cars scale out well as 34' standard gauge cars. On3 or On30 trucks can be widened to Scale172 gauge of .784. OO scale 12mm diameter wheels are close enough. The Bachmann On30 Mogul could be massaged to represent a standard gauge loco.Harold
We can build a credible C-19 from the Roundhouse 2-8-0 with minimal bashing. The stock cab can be adjusted to make a taller one. The opening can be fitted with a new filler piece and all that is required is an 1/8 high skirt around the bottom. A new side panel would be added for decoration. Our crude mockup with a cab from another project.S-scale C-16 domes are the right size to make our Scale172 C-19. Those domes are Tomalco but domes are available from Slim Gauge 3D at Shapeways. The motor mount just has to be adjusted and the cylinders have to be modified to lower the boiler.Harold
The Roundhouse/Athearn HO 2-8-0 scales really well against post-1900 narrow gauge 2-8-0s like this Southern Pacific narrow gauge 2-8-0. The stock cab can be adjusted to make a late 2-8-0.Our cab doesn't go below the walkway because the walkways are at the base of the boiler where the examples are higher on the boiler.Harold
Found this idea on John Ott's old time train site.http://www.ottgalleries.com/roundhouse%20bash.htmlThe Tyco/Mantua Ten-Wheeler boiler can be fit to the Roundhouse old time mechanism.Doug Tagsold used the MDC/Athearn/Roundhouse HO 2-8-0 for his Scale172 locos. The loco mechanism matches the first generation narrow gauge consolidations. 14mm Scale Link drivers give us the correct 40" driver size. A boiler from the Tyco/Mantua Ten-Wheeler gives us a boiler.Locomotives were proportional the same setup can be used for a HO early era consolidation.Have the mechanism running smoothly.
Here is the loco in large scale:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/15-model-making/14042-east-broad-top-3-rockhill.html
Was asked why not HO?We now have our Scale172 trains running. Simple mods to HO equipment gives us narrow gauge in a larger scale in the 1870s. This was my reason for doing this. All the other scales can't give me easy 1870s narrow gauge.Adding 28" HO wheels gives us Scale172 20" wheels and completes the look of early narrow gauge.The far right wheel on the ore car is a HO scale 33" and demonstrates the difference. A really D-oh! moment, wondered why I had an extra wheel set.The ore car give us an early coal car. The smaller wheels look good.Harold