Ballast glue formula?

[BigDaddy]

hon30critter

Unfortunately one of the links in the thread that you referred to doesn't work for me

I think that was my link, which refered to a specific product that is NLA.  I had not use the product so I have nothing to add about that.  

I have read in this forum that alcohol solutions dry faster.  I also recall that someone added water to a empty gallon of glue and successfully used that.  If you read it on the Internet, it must be true, right?

[jjdamnit]

Hello all,

hon30critter

Unfortunately one of the links in the thread that you referred to doesn't work for me...

Seems that all the Instant-Track-Tackit-Ballast-Adhesive links do not work. A Google search did not reveal a manufactures web site.  

But you can still get the DAP product from Amazon.

Hope this helps.

 

 

[BNSF UP and others modeler]

You could also buy woodland scenics scenic cemet, however, don't believe them when they claim that it comes with wetting agents/ surface tension breakers. Whatever they put in there to make that claim doesn't work very well at all, so you will still need to wet the ballast with rubbing alcohol or diluted dish soap.

[Mark R.]

I remember as a youngster, my Dad would mix powdered wood glue in with the ballast. He added enough so it was easily visible once the ballast / glue was shaken together. You could see the powder coating the ballast. The ballast was groomed to his liking. then just misted with water. The water activated the powdered glue and it bonded really well.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what the glue was (that was 50 years ago), but I'm sure there are still powdered wood wood glues out there.

Mark.

[SeeYou190]

STRATTON & GILLETTE roadbed and scenic glue formula:

.

4 ounces white glue

28 ounces water

3ml Kodak Photo-Flo wetting agent

.

Works perfect!

.

-Kevin

.

[hon30critter]

Hi jjdamnit:

Unfortunately one of the links in the thread that you referred to doesn't work for me (I'm not sure if it is referring to a specific product and/or a method applying glue), but I understand the concept of mixing a dry powdered glue with the ballast before putting it in place. Interesting option!

Thanks,

Dave

[jjdamnit]

Hello all,

Check out this thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/258968.aspx

I still use this method with amazing results.

Update:
I have had to replace the bench work and needed to remove this ballast over Woodland Scenics foam roadbed and 1-inch blue foam.
Using a solution of warm water and 90% Isopropyl alcohol sprayed over this mix it came up easily.
I harvested the used ballast by cleaning it under running water and allowing to air dry.

Hope this helps.

[gmpullman]

rrinker

Here we have very hard water.

My well water is more rock than liquid!

I always keep a few gallons of distilled water in my hobby workshop. A local discount grocery store sells it for about 80¢ a gallon. I never use tap water when mixing paints, decal work, prep-washing of models or ballast thinning.

Cheap insurance.

Regards, Ed

[j. c.]

50 to 60% water 49  to59% glue 1% 96 proof alcohol.

[rrinker]

 Yeah, distilled wtaer is probbaly cheaper, but it still needs a flow agent. I found with just alcohol and glue, it always soaks completely into the ballast and never puddles on top. Even wicks UP quite well - I tried sort of Cody Grivnoo's way of applying the glue along the outside edges first to get the shoulder glued down and when doing that, i found it soaking up quite well into the centr of the track as well, almost didn;t need to make another pass dripping some on down the middle. 

 I know people have tried everything from dish soap to things like Photo Flo as wetting agents. 70% alcohol is fairly cheap, under $1 a pint, so I'll spend far more on the glue than the alcohol. 

                                  --Randy

[hon30critter]

Thanks everyone for your answers.

Wayne, your ballast looks great! Thanks for the detailed tutorial.

Dave

[ROBERT PETRICK]

You can also buy 50% isopropyl alcohol instead of the usual 70%. Still a little stronger than the 35% alcohol from the resulting three-way mix, but well within the ballpark.

If the tap water in your area is extremely hard, you can buy a one-gallon jug of distilled water for about a dollar. Should last a pretty long while in modeling use.

Robert 

[rrinker]

 Here we have very hard water. No amount of the "drop of soap" and water method has EVER worked. Even using part water. SO I just use 70% alcohol (yes, I know, that's 30% water - but it's not local tap water) and glue, no additional water. I have a misting spray bottle to apply 70% alcohol first to wet down the ballast, then dribble on glue/alcohol. I never really measured how much of each I add, enough to make it pretty runny. Something else I noticed making a mixture of just glue and alcohol, it had a decent shelf life, a couple of days at least if you have a way of capping the container. ANd when I did mix up some in a paper cup to try it the first time, when it did dry, it was flexible, not hard like pure white glue gets. That's why I never bothered paying extra for matte medium. 

                           --Randy

 

[doctorwayne]

I use ordinary white glue with tap water, usually somewhere around 40% glue and 60% water, although it doesn't appear that the ratio needs to be too precise.

Some folks who have especially hard water seem to prefer alcohol (I like it, too, but much prefer mine in a glass), but a better and much cheaper option would be distilled water from the supermarket.

After you've distributed and groomed the dry ballast, use a good-quality sprayer that allows you to mist the ballast with "wet" water (water with a few drops of dish detergent added).  Once the ballast has been dampened,you can then spray it more directly without scattering ballast all over the place.  In my opinion, wetting of the ballast is crucial to getting a good strong bond, and you'll do better to over-wet rather than under-wet.  The wet water should appear at the base of deep ballast, seeping out and indicating that the material has been wetted completely through.

Allow the ballast to dry completely before attempting to clean the rails - where ballast or sub-ballast is especially deep, this may take several days - I'm sure that you'll have other things to keep busy with while that occurs.

To avoid gluing turnouts in one set route, apply a little plastic compatible oil to the tops of the ties over which the points move, then move the points back and forth a few times to distribute the oil.  Position the points at mid-throw, blocking them with bits of styrene, if necessary.

Here's my sequence for ballasting, in this case with real limestone, but the procedure is pretty much the same for Woodland Scenics ballast.

Ballast added by tapping the paper cup while moving it along the track...

...ballast groomed (drag the brush with the handle close to the track, rather than using a painting or sweeping motion...gives much better control, especially with the lighter WS ballast)

...ballast wetted thoroughly...

...beginning application of the diluted glue....

Be generous with the wet water and the glue, too...

...you can always throw some ground foam over the excess, getting a head start on your scenery

Track cleaned and back in-service...

Wayne

[wvg_ca]

my favourite is 1/3 of each, water, 70% alcohol, glue ...

for glue I use Dap latex for better sound absobtion, quieter than white glue

[hon30critter]

Hi folks:

What ratio do you use for glue/water/alcohol (or other formula) for gluing down ballast?

Thanks

Dave