Right now my backdrop is 100% blue sky. I would like to add landscape and sky details like low hills, trees, buildings, clouds, etc. However, I have no artistic skills and anything I would try to paint would look like a first grade art project. I am not looking for guidance on how to do it myself because "it is easy". I anticipate hiring someone to do it.
I really don't want a backdrop that looks like a photo and I have not seen any of the glue-on backdrop papers that look right to me. I don't need or want a razor sharp picture. I want the backdrop to have some details but as seen from a distance. I have seen painting done that have the type of details that I would like to see in my backdrop and they were landscapes done by amature artist. I have not tried to locate any such amature artist yet but that is on my list.
Has anyone here hired someone to paint their backdrop? How did it work out?
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
My thoughts, you already posses some of the skills, as an amature artist, in the fact that your building a model railroad.
There are thousands of videos out there, along with books, on how to do a basic, "far in the distance", backdrop, and many more on the market that you can buy.
Check out your options, and save the money to buy trains.
Mike.
My You Tube
My wife is a professional artist and she painted my last backdrop. It was beautiful and and completely of of scale. She still gumbles about how I painted over it with blue sky. She is thinking of doing my current layout and I may get her help for some things, but I am thinking of doing it myself.
I have been watching a series of different backgrounds by a guy named Chris Lyon. He is doing kinda what you are asking about. I have no idea where you are and where he is. I know he is fast and will travel. You might look him up on Google. I'd watch a video or two of his work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYiOvCe6iLw
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I had similar sentiments about backdrops in an era when photo backdrops were crazy $$. I tend to prefer something that doesn't call attention to itself, which means it does have to be a certain quality. I'm no artist, but search for the Greg Gray "Painting Backdrops" DVD by Green Frog. Greg walks you through his process. He tells you how to get the basics down, then you add detail to your level of taste. I stopped at a certain point 20 or so years ago and haven't been back yet.
What is recommended is to make a photomosaic if you don't have a nice wide angle shot. Then scale this to the size of the backdrop. Prepping the surface is important. Working from the scaled image, you sketch the horizon line and the bulk of what's above it. Then Greg shows how to use acrylics, but you can follow most of his stuff with oils if you're so inclined.
Here's a view of my Silverton backdrop.
Here's another view at an angle that shows how downtown is just a false front to hide a line that climbs behind town. Despite the bad angle, the backdrop's perspective hplds up pretty well.
Greg actually paints a Durango backdrop in the video, but he does it so it's widely applicable. But Silverton is pretty close in its features, as this angle from down in Durango of the Silverton backdrop shows, one of the fortiunate coincidences I took advantage of.
At the left end, the backdrop is helped by a coved corner that helps transition into 3D scenery.
This view pulls it all together.
And I have not real art instruction behind me. Just Greg Gray's help.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Just a thought, too.
Photographer's backdrop material or is there an outfit making "sky" mural wall paper?
https://tinyurl.com/yd82eb3g
Here's some photo backdrops for use in photo studios. Most are vertical orientation but I don't see why they couldn't be cut-n-pasted?
https://tinyurl.com/y97h4kfr
Good Luck, Ed
[edit]
I really don't want a backdrop that looks like a photo and I have not seen any of the glue-on backdrop papers that look right to me.
I didn't catch this first time around so maybe my suggestion is all wet sorry.
PED Right now my backdrop is 100% blue sky. I would like to add landscape and sky details like low hills, trees, buildings, clouds, etc. However, I have no artistic skills and anything I would try to paint would look like a first grade art project. I am not looking for guidance on how to do it myself because "it is easy". I anticipate hiring someone to do it.
Let's face it, some of us lack even basic artistic skills. You either have it or you don't. I used to watch some artist with a German accent on PBS on Saturday mornings. He would constantly say, "It's not that difficult, you can do it". I would call out to the TV, "No I can't".
I guess it all depends upon what you want to paint. Dabbing white paint with a sponge on a blue background to simulate clouds is one thing, mountains and forests quite another, and then there are structures and buildings like downtown scenes, farms, heavy industries, etc.
My thought is to contact a local art school or college and ask if young students would be interested in taking on such a project as painting backdrops for a model railroad. The cost would be far cheaper to pay a talented college student than a professional artist. I just may do that myself.
Rich
Alton Junction
For me, removing the corners by applying a smooth backdrop is probably more important than the color itself.
Simon
http://www.trainjunkies.com/how-we-create-a-custom-backdorp.html
Large Format backdrop printinghttp://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/32530
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Here's a couple of ideas....
1. Although you say you don't want to do photo-realistic backdrops, I have seen layouts done with photos taken from calendars, travel posters etc. that turned out well. Generally you would use a sharp hobby knife or single-edge razor blade to remove the sky part from the top part, leaving just the hills or mountains or whatever.
2. There is one (or more?) companies that make stencils you can use to create rolling hills or mountains. For hills, first paint the distance hills light green, then use darker green for closer hills, slightly overlapping the distant hills in places.
3. Similar to 1., you can use paper backdrops like Walthers, only cut out the sky part. There are also paper cut-out buildings you can use in more urban areas.
4. You can also use 'grass mats', which are designed to be used flat to represent grassy areas, as hills. Cut them in a rolling shape and attach to the backdrop. Use lighter ones as distant hills, darker ones for closer.
5. All of the above, mix painted areas with photos or cutouts or other backdrop products.
Before you go out and hire a commercial artist, who will probably charge you an arm and a leg, you might want to get in touch with an art teacher at a local college or university and consider hiring a starving undergrad or grad student to do the work.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearman Before you go out and hire a commercial artist, who will probably charge you an arm and a leg, you might want to get in touch with an art teacher at a local college or university and consider hiring a starving undergrad or grad student to do the work.
bearmanBefore you go out and hire a commercial artist, who will probably charge you an arm and a leg, you might want to get in touch with an art teacher at a local college or university and consider hiring a starving undergrad or grad student to do the work.
If you do, there are a couple of things you have to make sure they understand. The first is that they need to create everything to the scale you are modeling. Second is that you want to explain to them that the horizon line is at eye level when you are operating (either sitting or standing), not at some spot midway up the backdrop that fits their artistic vision. The exception to this might be that photography is your main interest in modeling and you want the horizon at camera level.
I suspect the place to start with an art student, or anyone for that matter, would be to have some photographs available of the kind of backdrop you want. Then there would have to be an explanation of scale, perspective etc. My guess is once the artist figures out that there is more to the project than a sky, he/she may feel challenged.
My Daughter is a real arthead and her fellow high school students have offered to do my backdrop. I will let them do it in a heartbeat when the time comes if my own kid doesn't want to do it. There is some amazing young talent out there. The rates can't be beaten. Even if they do it for free, I would give them an appropriate gift for the effort.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
"Even if they do it for free, I would give them an appropriate gift for the effort."
A very wise suggestion, in fact, buying the materials without paying for the labor is also a good idea.
A few pointers.
Disclosure, I'm a professional artist, and have lots of experience in the field and as a long time model railroader I know about how it works...
I see a lot of suggestions about painting it yourself, and it isn't so easy if you aren't artistically disposed, so hiring someone might be a good idea.
To hire an artist is a good way to get it done, but the suggestion of hiring art students or teachers may be well meant, but not a good advice... Many of them aren't really into realism...
First of all, the concept of a model railroad backdrop isn't so very well known outside of our hobby. And to look right there is certain rules you must follow.
Scale, right perspective etc.etc...
I have painted some backdrops for others, mostly museums, but it is the same concept. The end result is based on my experience, discussion with the client and to have a good understanding of what it is supposed to look like.
Price is never easy to negotiate, especially when working for a private person. But it isn't as expensive as some thinks.... I usually work on a fixed price as that's the easiest way to get a happy client.
Just my view, hope it helps.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
Some more encouragement from the DIY angle. This ain't rocket science and a bucket of paint will hide any embrassing attempts that are less than satisfactory. I dug around and found pics of the photomosaic I made to paint the Silverton backdrop. These are actually part of one continuous mosiac. At the bottom is the scale in feet, which was determined from the space I had to fit it in.
richhotrain PED Right now my backdrop is 100% blue sky. I would like to add landscape and sky details like low hills, trees, buildings, clouds, etc. However, I have no artistic skills and anything I would try to paint would look like a first grade art project. I am not looking for guidance on how to do it myself because "it is easy". I anticipate hiring someone to do it. A lot of the replies will try to convince you to paint the backdrops yesterday. But, I feel like you do. I have given some thought to hiring someone with artistic skills to paint the backdrops on my new layout. Let's face it, some of us lack even basic artistic skills. You either have it or you don't. I used to watch some artist with a German accent on PBS on Saturday mornings. He would constantly say, "It's not that difficult, you can do it". I would call out to the TV, "No I can't". I guess it all depends upon what you want to paint. Dabbing white paint with a sponge on a blue background to simulate clouds is one thing, mountains and forests quite another, and then there are structures and buildings like downtown scenes, farms, heavy industries, etc. My thought is to contact a local art school or college and ask if young students would be interested in taking on such a project as painting backdrops for a model railroad. The cost would be far cheaper to pay a talented college student than a professional artist. I just may do that myself. Rich
A lot of the replies will try to convince you to paint the backdrops yesterday. But, I feel like you do. I have given some thought to hiring someone with artistic skills to paint the backdrops on my new layout.
That's a great idea that I will look into. I have about 400 linear feet of backdrop that needs 'scenic artistry'. I have NO artistic talent.
Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.
- Photo album of layout construction -
I sponge painted some white on a blue background and I thought it looked pretty good 30 years ago. Now I would use some gray or a gray blue for more variety.
There are some painted backgrounds on youtube videos with mountains and trees. There is a big difference in how they look. By that standard, I would hire someone.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I’m perfectly capable of painting a near photo realistic backdrop. But it’s the last thing I’d ever do. Personally I hate photo backdrops. They set the bar too high for the rest of your modeling. And I don’t mean that in any condescending way to those who use photo backdrops nor anyone’s modeling skill. Bottom line: photos behind the trains, everything in front and in between better stack up to that level of detail.
To me, the backdrop is about mood and energy. It shouldn’t be the first thing noticed, it should just sort of exist as an afterthought to the first time visitor. I’ll post some photos of mine tomorrow. Some will like it, some will hate it, others will be indifferent. I don’t care. Nor should you if your backdrop serves its purpose.
And if you think you can’t paint a backdrop, watch some Bob Ross videos. Lambast it if you will, but he taught millions of people how to relax and enjoy painting for their own enjoyment. Art it ain’t, valid it may very well be.
Drumguy.
I hope you won't be offended if I say I like your artist's statement. Some folks get all cagey when the word art even comes up. I have learned the hard way how difficult it is to even have that conversation. See: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/231838.aspx?page=1
Whether most know it or not, as a model railroader you're an artist already, although no one will insist anyone be required to call themselves an artist.
I really do mean it that Greg Gray showed me how to do the backdrop. I have no practical experience with painting of this sort. If it's not a wall or a ceiling or a vehicle, I hardly knew which end of the brush to hold.
I think backdrop painting is just like any other model railroad skill. It can be learned to an acceptable level with surprisingly little effort. You simply have to convince yourself you can do it, then you try it, and pretty soon you're looking for more inspiration.
It doesn't have to be as complicated as my Silverton backdrop. Here's a view of the south end of Durango. It's not really a prototypical scene, but does help give a sense of exiting the mountains. Sometimes what the layout needs is more important than what the prototype defined and that sort of choice is exactly the sort that an artist makes.
Or you can just stick to doing the simple stuff, which is very effective when framed with 3D scenery.
The landscape behind Rockwood - Low and High, Wide angles
Up the Creek
I also use some "sawtooth" panels at the edges of my peninsula. These act as scenic dividers, but also keep visitor intrusion onto the layout in check in tight spots.
Nothing too complicated about them, even if you've never held a paint brush before. In fact, I rattle-bombed them
Sometimes art simply recycles, an artistic judgment that generations of artists have paid tribute to. In this case, it's even hard to detect. Look closely at the treeline, as it's hard to make it out. The trees that are right on the backdrop are literally right on the backdrop. They're a sticker I got from Hobby Lobby. There are probably 3 dozen packs of the things right at the tree line all around the room.
But isnt that scenery? Yes, and it's also art. And we pretty much all do scenery without too much trepidation about being called a *GASP!* scenicker.
Best approach to finding a professional artist with the skills you want for a backdrop might be to search for an artist who does murals...
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Drumguy I’m perfectly capable of painting a near photo realistic backdrop. But it’s the last thing I’d ever do. Personally I hate photo backdrops.
I’m perfectly capable of painting a near photo realistic backdrop. But it’s the last thing I’d ever do. Personally I hate photo backdrops.
I'm confused. You say you are capable of painting excellent backdrops but it's the last thing you would ever do, yet you also hate photo back drops. Whats left?Now I have to say Rob Spangler paints photorealistic back drops (paint, not photos) and his layout is IMO, near the pinacle of home layout realism. The foreground and background fit together very well creating a homogenius scene and one doesn't seem to be a much higher bar of realism over the other.
As far as photo backgrounds, have you seen the Onondaga Cut-off layout? It uses photographs for back grounds, and it fits very well too.
They set the bar too high for the rest of your modeling. And I don’t mean that in any condescending way to those who use photo backdrops nor anyone’s modeling skill. Bottom line: photos behind the trains, everything in front and in between better stack up to that level of detail.
There is no perfect world, but both have been demonstrated to be very effective when integrated into the layout well.
I've seen layouts with cartoonish backdrops too, and those detract even more than the high bar of photo backdrops. IMHO, the goal is to get a back drop which blends in and comliments the scene. It's not always an easy combination. And lets face it, it depends on ones resources and skills. It's one thing to say photo backdrops are aweful, even when well executed, but whats the alternative? Many have nothing or a worse.
I do plan on painting my own, and am going to try to integrate in something on the order of Rob's hand painted back drops. If one wants to keep it simple, what seems to work best are the hazy in-the-distance landscapes - which suggests real scenery in the same way that real scenes often do.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I may not have worded the first paragraph of my post too well. What I meant is that I can paint nearly photographically if choose to, but for my tastes, thats not the right thing to do on my railroad. This pic shows a bit of my backdrop. Its very loose, and has some energy, but won't dominate the view when the rest of the scenery is built.
There are some soft spots around the room, and area where a bit of a storm is brewing, basically it has some variety as you pan around. But not too much.
Not everyones cup of tea, but I painted the entire room in about 90 minutes using 2 shades of blue, white, three 9" paint rollers and 4" and 1" junk brushes from Wally World.
MRVP has some great videos on doing backdrops. I believe they were in Rehab My Railroad Season (the one where they did the station and grade crossing), and Olympia Logging (both seasons). The distant tree thing looks pretty straight-forward.
Some further further considerations/thouguts:
What do you want your backdrop to accomplish? If you want to do closeup photography, you probably need a photo backdrop or professional painter. My backdrop would fail miserably on Pelle’s layout!
If you need it to extend industrial or city scenes, you might want more realism.
if you are just trying to make a framing reference for your layout, anything from a solid blue color to a very detailed painting would fit the bill. This is all personal preference.
And Mike is right: we’ve all become artists in one form or another while pursuing this hobby. So don’t sell yourself short. If you’ve never painted anything, give it a try. Worst case scenario you get some more white paint and paint over it!
Heres my take on the biggest mistakes made when painting a backdrop (this refers to skies and landscapes):
Yes, that cloud backdrop is not my cup of tea. To me it really dominates the view with a forboading, "storm is brewing", type of feeling. It appears back drops can often be not just a quality thing, but a personal thing.
Interesting conversations. I'll have to come back to this subject when i get closer to needing a backdrop.
But in the meantime I need to paint the interior walls of my train shed some sort of sky blue,....any recommemdations for a stock color blue?
railandsailBut in the meantime I need to paint the interior walls of my train shed some sort of sky blue,....any recommemdations for a stock color blue?
When it came to painting, I took color strips from my local Lowes or Home Depot and went outside and compared them to the real sky, which does vary from horizon (lighter) to straight up over head (deepest blue).
On my last layout I went with Valspar Clear Blue Sky paint:
http://m.valsparpaint.com/color-detail.php?id=2018&g=1012
Here are a couple of photos as a visual aid:
Some go with a darker blue but since sky nearer to the horzon is typically lighter - which is usually what you would see above the rail scenes for the first 2 or 3+ feet , and nin many cases hazier, it makes more sense to go with a light shade of blue and then you can do clouds or haze over it.
In "the olden days" (like the 1990's), one method of doing a backdrop was to find a scene you liked and take some color slides of it. Then in the layout room, you could project the slide image onto your backdrop, and use the photo as a template for painting the backdrop scenery.