dante Rich, I shared your concern about the relative permanence of cauked track. Therefore, I spiked my Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 flex on Homabed and Homasote. There are pre-drilled spike holes on either side of each rail every 12th tie (not every 6th on mine-have never seen every 6th); that is about every 3-1/16th inches. Initially, I spiked only one rail, alternating rails. That actually worked well, but to be "safe," I eventually spiked both rails. I used the Xuron spiking tool, a straight edge and Ribbonrail alignment gauges, both straight and curved. No wiggles (I have yet to ballast), no regrets, after 5-1/2 years; also, those spikes are almost undistinguishable from the plastic "spikes" on each tie. Try a test length--you might like it! Dante
Rich,
I shared your concern about the relative permanence of cauked track. Therefore, I spiked my Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 flex on Homabed and Homasote. There are pre-drilled spike holes on either side of each rail every 12th tie (not every 6th on mine-have never seen every 6th); that is about every 3-1/16th inches. Initially, I spiked only one rail, alternating rails. That actually worked well, but to be "safe," I eventually spiked both rails. I used the Xuron spiking tool, a straight edge and Ribbonrail alignment gauges, both straight and curved. No wiggles (I have yet to ballast), no regrets, after 5-1/2 years; also, those spikes are almost undistinguishable from the plastic "spikes" on each tie. Try a test length--you might like it!
Dante
Rich seems to really focus on how the rails and ties look from a mini cam, so spending the extra money on the Walthers Flex Track might be money well spent for him.
- Douglas
Doughlessso spending the extra money on the Walthers Flex Track might be money well spent for him.
Ummmm? I presume that most of us have a pin vise and the appropriate size drill bit, so why not drill the ties where you want?
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
richhotrain Jim, did you use some sort of straight edge or other guide to hold the track straight while you nailed? Rich
Jim, did you use some sort of straight edge or other guide to hold the track straight while you nailed?
Rich
I used a long "true" piece of lumber to draw center-lines on the painted sheet Homasote. I didn't need to hold the track straight, rather I simply lined up the nail hole on the centerline and tapped it in place. Since the center-line was dead straight, the track was straight as well when nailed on the centerline.
I lay all my track on centerlines I draw. The curves on that staging yard have easements as well, which are visible in the photo.
As for the Walthers track with the holes on the sides of the rail rather than center of the tie, isn't the Walthers flex track stiff like ME? Something to factor in if you find the springy track easier to work with.
As far as taking close up photo's, after the Atlas code 83 is ballasted and painting, I'm not sure you will see a huge difference between it and the Walthers flex.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Thanks, Jim, for that additional information. From the photo, the track looks perfectly straight. When you get up close and personal, does the track look perfectly straight to you?
Alton Junction
Like Jim I layout accurate center lines first, and install homasote roadbed to those lines. Or, in the case of yards, the center lines are layed out directly on a sheet of homasote, in which case I also layout a line that is the edge of the ties.
Once the caulk is spread out, you can see the lines through it.
If the roadbed is straight, the track will be pretty close. Another reason I like the more rigid homasote roadbed rather than cork. I install the roadbed with a pneunatic brad nailer. Get the roadbed perfect first, sand the top if it smooth, glue down the track, check straights with metal ruler.
I weight the track down and use a few temperary nails here and there, especially on curves until the caulk is set.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL If the roadbed is straight, the track will be pretty close.
If the roadbed is straight, the track will be pretty close.
As I move along, I feel that it is pretty close, and that is going to have to be good enough.
I should mention that while my mainlines will have cork roadbed, the yards and passenger station ladder will not have roadbed.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL If the roadbed is straight, the track will be pretty close. I like that term "pretty close". It is like "good enough". As I move along, I feel that it is pretty close, and that is going to have to be good enough. I should mention that while my mainlines will have cork roadbed, the yards and passenger station ladder will not have roadbed. Rich
I like that term "pretty close". It is like "good enough".
Pretty close means only small adjustments need to be made in the position of the track on the roadbed to get the track truely straight.
I think I figured out your problem - answered in your other thread.
Doughless Well, I'm going to test use latex masonry paint, which is thicker than regular house paint but can still be brushed on. Easier than trying to spread caulk evenly with a knife or credit card. I once spilled a bunch of regular latex paint from a pint can all over loose track on roadbed. I cleaned it up best I could while leaving it in place because I didnt want to take it up and realign everything. After it dried, it was the most secure section of track on the layout. Could hardly budge it when I tried to salvage it. I'm thinking a $20 gallon of masonry paint colored weathered tie-brown might do the whole layout and provide a nice backdrop for ballasting, but I'll see if I can get a sample to test first. Might even paint the rails while I'm at it.
Well, I'm going to test use latex masonry paint, which is thicker than regular house paint but can still be brushed on. Easier than trying to spread caulk evenly with a knife or credit card.
I once spilled a bunch of regular latex paint from a pint can all over loose track on roadbed. I cleaned it up best I could while leaving it in place because I didnt want to take it up and realign everything. After it dried, it was the most secure section of track on the layout. Could hardly budge it when I tried to salvage it.
I'm thinking a $20 gallon of masonry paint colored weathered tie-brown might do the whole layout and provide a nice backdrop for ballasting, but I'll see if I can get a sample to test first. Might even paint the rails while I'm at it.
I'd be interested in the results of your testing that paint.
Can a gal of masonry paint be purchased for that sort of price?
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
railandsail Doughless Well, I'm going to test use latex masonry paint, which is thicker than regular house paint but can still be brushed on. Easier than trying to spread caulk evenly with a knife or credit card. I once spilled a bunch of regular latex paint from a pint can all over loose track on roadbed. I cleaned it up best I could while leaving it in place because I didnt want to take it up and realign everything. After it dried, it was the most secure section of track on the layout. Could hardly budge it when I tried to salvage it. I'm thinking a $20 gallon of masonry paint colored weathered tie-brown might do the whole layout and provide a nice backdrop for ballasting, but I'll see if I can get a sample to test first. Might even paint the rails while I'm at it. I'd be interested in the results of your testing that paint. Can a gal of masonry paint be purchased for that sort of price?
Hmmm, I thought that's what the Lowe's ad said, but that does seem low.
The forum often talks about the best way to paint rails too, and I've had success with brush painting. Why not affix and weather at the same time?
Get some masonry paint tinted rail brown. Brush two coats onto the roadbed. Lay the track. (I don't really use a centerline, eyeball usually works for me, but I'm not not submitting it to the mini-cam test)
Have a pan of water handy. Use a smaller chisel edge brush kept wet to thin the paint. Paint the rails so it flows into and underneath the ties and blends with the roadbed paint. Secure the track with soup cans and let dry over night.
There is a greater than 50% chance I'll have a big mess on my hands, but hey, experimenting and testing is part of the fun.
Again, I was really impressed with how well standard latex house paint held the track to the roadbed when I spilled it. If it was rail brown and not olive green, I wouldn't have been so upset at myself for spilling it.
Sorry for the OT folks. Back to your normal in-the-box discussions........
richhotrain Thanks, Jim, for that additional information. From the photo, the track looks perfectly straight. When you get up close and personal, does the track look perfectly straight to you? Rich
Yes, it looked perfectly straight in person. When I lay track, it has to pass the "eyeball" test. I'm picky about track work so I get down low and sight down the track from both ends to make sure it is straight or that curves have a nice even flow from the easement on through to the curve.
During the track laying process, it isn't always perfectly straight, which is why I like the track nails. It hold the track firmly in place, but you can push it slightly one way or the other if it needs tweaked. I sight down again and check and tweak until I am satisfied. After it has passed the test of some time, I would think a few months, then check again and the ballast.
In yards I use sheet Homasote and out on the mainline cork, which can be sanded after it is secured for a smooth even surface. Homabed is very nice too and in terms of laying track and centerlines, is similar to cork. Since it is in two halves, the centerline is preserved for laying the track.
The nice thing about using Atlas track with the holes pre-drilled is it provides you a precise center point to line up on your center line. No estimating where the center is by eyeball. If you don't like the nail heads, after the track is ballasted and secured, you can pull them out, and if necessary, a dab of something to fill the hole. After painted and weathered, it will be as if the nail was never there.
A couple of thoughts on this topic: If you are going to use spikes, the road bed needs to be soft - spiking into cork or plywood is not lots of fun. The spikes often will not hold great in the cork or go through to the subroadbed and bend. This means more prep or using caulk or nails.
I used ME flex on homasote which made spiking very easy. IMHO homasote is a pain and I don't recommend it unless you can afford pre milled product - prepping it on your own is lots of extra work.
If you use spikes, I rccommend the Wathers code 83 spikes - long shank , beefy and wicked sharp. They go in smooth and are long enough to hold the track securely. The heads are a little big but not noticeably so, even in close up pics. Since I use ME flex, the track doesn't move much, so I use just a few spikes per section.
Your mileage may vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
trainnut1250 A couple of thoughts on this topic: If you are going to use spikes, the road bed needs to be soft - spiking into cork or plywood is not lots of fun. The spikes often will not hold great in the cork or go through to the subroadbed and bend. This means more prep or using caulk or nails. I used ME flex on homasote which made spiking very easy.
I used ME flex on homasote which made spiking very easy.
I've got ME small and medium spikes and I've used them mostly laying track on homasote - they work pretty well there. Using them on OSB may be a bit easier than standard plywood, and using fine tipped nail set helps too.
IMHO homasote is a pain and I don't recommend it unless you can afford pre milled product - prepping it on your own is lots of extra work.
Yes, I've used standard 4x8 1/2 inch sheet homasote and did spend a good deal of time getting the surface prepped so it was nice and even/flat. I did some sanding and/or filling and using a long straight piece of lumber to check it. I've saved it from my last layout and will re-use it along with some additional sections that will need to be built and prepped for the new space when ready. I still like it however to work with.
[/quote]
Fixing track after the fact with caulk is easy - just put a little caulk on the putty knife and slide it under to re-adhere the track.
So much for my long post getting eaten again. Only happens on this crazy network, never at home, I can write half a post, go eat dinner, come back an hour later, and finish it and it always posts. ANyway it was pretty much the same thing I've posted before about using caulk. Once I get to that point again, anyone is welcome to come over and I can show you how fast and easy it is.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker So much for my long post getting eaten again. Only happens on this crazy network
Randy,
Lately this Forum is notorious for that........been there!
Take Care!
Frank
Unbeliveable; 3pages, 70plus replys on how to lay flex track.
I can hardly wait for the rail joiner thread
UNCLEBUTCH Unbeliveable; 3pages, 70plus replys on how to lay flex track. I can hardly wait for the rail joiner thread
zstripe rrinker So much for my long post getting eaten again. Only happens on this crazy network Randy, Lately this Forum is notorious for that........been there! Take Care! Frank
If I know in advance that I am going to type a fairly lengthy reply, I copy to the Clipboard every paragraph or two.
Seriously, never happens from home, even if my computer goes to sleep in between. It's not the forum, it's the browser/OS thinking the network connection timed out and was re-established. Since I have the same OS and am using the same browser on the other computer, what it says is happening is really happening - probably the wireless router is resetting connections - it happens for more than just this forum, other times I can remain connected to things all day long. ANd every time I DO copy my post before hitting submit because I think it's been an awful long time since I started typing - it goes through with no issue!
BTW: I've heard code 80 n scale joiners works very well on code 83 track.
They are the absolute best without a doubt,
and you'd be foolish not to try them......Sam I am.
rrinker Seriously, never happens from home, even if my computer goes to sleep in between. It's not the forum, it's the browser/OS thinking the network connection timed out and was re-established. Since I have the same OS and am using the same browser on the other computer, what it says is happening is really happening - probably the wireless router is resetting connections - it happens for more than just this forum, other times I can remain connected to things all day long. ANd every time I DO copy my post before hitting submit because I think it's been an awful long time since I started typing - it goes through with no issue! --Randy
The other train forums, personal email, and other types all have auto-save so you don't lose what you are in the middle of typing.
So the question is, have any of these discussions changed your thinking about methods or materials?
If I was closer, I would be happy to give hands on training.........
Doughless The forum often talks about the best way to paint rails too, and I've had success with brush painting. Why not affix and weather at the same time? Get some masonry paint tinted rail brown. Brush two coats onto the roadbed. Lay the track. (I don't really use a centerline, eyeball usually works for me, but I'm not not submitting it to the mini-cam test) Have a pan of water handy. Use a smaller chisel edge brush kept wet to thin the paint. Paint the rails so it flows into and underneath the ties and blends with the roadbed paint. Secure the track with soup cans and let dry over night. There is a greater than 50% chance I'll have a big mess on my hands, but hey, experimenting and testing is part of the fun. Again, I was really impressed with how well standard latex house paint held the track to the roadbed when I spilled it. If it was rail brown and not olive green, I wouldn't have been so upset at myself for spilling it.
Yesterday I was doing a little painting with some Mahogany colored latex paint, and decided to just give it a little informal test of adhesion. I brushed some onto the surface on some scrap masonite board I had, and put a weight on it for a couple of hours. Like you Doughless, I was surprised at adhesion,...just thin layer of latex paint that I imagine the track could be detached from with a good scraper tool.
railandsail Doughless The forum often talks about the best way to paint rails too, and I've had success with brush painting. Why not affix and weather at the same time? Get some masonry paint tinted rail brown. Brush two coats onto the roadbed. Lay the track. (I don't really use a centerline, eyeball usually works for me, but I'm not not submitting it to the mini-cam test) Have a pan of water handy. Use a smaller chisel edge brush kept wet to thin the paint. Paint the rails so it flows into and underneath the ties and blends with the roadbed paint. Secure the track with soup cans and let dry over night. There is a greater than 50% chance I'll have a big mess on my hands, but hey, experimenting and testing is part of the fun. Again, I was really impressed with how well standard latex house paint held the track to the roadbed when I spilled it. If it was rail brown and not olive green, I wouldn't have been so upset at myself for spilling it. Yesterday I was doing a little painting with some Mahogany colored latex paint, and decided to just give it a little informal test of adhesion. I brushed some onto the surface on some scrap masonite board I had, and put a weight on it for a couple of hours. Like you Doughless, I was surprised at adhesion,...just thin layer of latex paint that I imagine the track could be detached from with a good scraper tool.
Its an option. Afterall, as everybody points out, its the glue and ballast that makes the track and roadbed a permanent bond.
Brushing on or rolling on the adhesive (okay paint) seems a lot easier than shmearing thick caulk with a credit card or fiddling with nails. It only needs to hold good enough until the ballast is applied. We'll see how it works on homabed roadbed when I start building.
As odd as it sounds and like I mention I been spiking my track for 62 years with zero issues and I have salvage a lot of track for reuse over the years which saved me a bundle from have to replace track and switches..
One could not pay me enough to use caulk.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich, So the question is, have any of these discussions changed your thinking about methods or materials?
What I have been doing over the past few days since I started the thread is experimenting with various techniques.
I have decided against the use of caulk, and it is too late to consider homasote in lieu of plywood. So, I have been nailing every 6 inches on the outside of the rail on one side of the track. I started out drilling pilot holes with a 0.042 drill bit in a pin vise, and that works quite well.
However, my biggest challenge is finding the most effective straight edge tool. Laying flex track directly on plywood for my passenger station tracks (10 of them) is challenging enough, but making it more difficult is the fact that the tracks are too far from the edge of the plywood to clamp the straight edges. I am still working on that.
Straight track challenge? A metal straight edge laid acainst the ends of the ties, or against one rail doesn't take care of straight track?
railandsail Straight track challenge? A metal straight edge laid acainst the ends of the ties, or against one rail doesn't take care of straight track?
I think Rich is saying the guide will move on him when trying to straighten the track, which does take a bit of force, so it would be better to secure the guide.
Doughless railandsail Straight track challenge? A metal straight edge laid acainst the ends of the ties, or against one rail doesn't take care of straight track? I think Rich is saying the guide will move on him when trying to straighten the track, which does take a bit of force, so it would be better to secure the guide.
Just a word of caution about latex paint.
I got a can of Walmarts cheapest latex paint and painted my sea of foam brown. A couple of years later I put down a yard ladder directly on the painted foam, held with "T pins". A few months later they were stuck solid when I went to lift them to solder feeder wires on to them. The track I forced up was covered in paint and foam that I had to remove. It stuck to the track rather than the foam.
Fortunately, most of my track is on cork roadbed or spline.
Helped a guy do a rapid disassembly of a layout with a 500' mainline, plus yards and siding. He had used caulk. I pried up one bit of track at a turnout and the whole 500' just peeled up off the cork like a magnet would peel off the fridge. There was no residue on the track because he put such a thin layer of caulk down and it had held fast for the years he had the layout. All his track had been soldered together so we just snipped the track either side of the joiners and had it boxed up in no time. Of course, each piece of flex was a tad shorter for doing that, however, it was all completely reusable.
A very thin layer of paint held the track firm, a very thin layer of caulk will do the same. If there is caulk residue on the track, you used too much.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."