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Ballast or scenery first?

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Ballast or scenery first?
Posted by alan76 on Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:16 AM

Just wondering what others do first. Do you ballast your track or do most of your scenery like grass, roads and such first?

I'm at the point, finally, where I'm going to start ballasting. Or ground foam. Huh?

Tags: Ballast
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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:21 AM

If it's next to the track, I do grass and roads first.  Grass on the mainline ballast just isn't right.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:23 AM

I've done/do it both ways,didn't really see a difference

Guess it depends on what you feel like doing at the time

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:35 AM

I ballested first, then scenery, than touched up any ballast work along the outside of track.

I don't think it makes much difference.  I liked the wide open area to work with the ballast, and the method I used to secure it, and not have to work around the scenery.

Mike.

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Posted by selector on Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:38 AM

Like Uncle Butch, I have done it both ways.  I'm resolved that it depends on what you want it to look like once you've invested the patience and skills at your disposal.  I don't mind 'grass' showing up here and there on the apron of the ballast, but not on a main line between the rails.  I also don't mind the ballast, even at the extremeties, looking incursion-free as if it's a new application covering the old.  But, I can make both orders of application look the same if I want them to.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, March 17, 2018 12:11 PM

I do ballast last.  I think it's because I really don't enjoy it.

I work in small sections, a few square feet or less at a time.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, March 17, 2018 12:36 PM

I use, for the most part, plaster-on-screen landforms, so that part of the scenery has to go in first - otherwise, a lot of ballast and white glue would end up on the floor of the layout room.

Once that's in place, I add ballast, although in some places, the lineside grass and weeds are done at the same time, as a lot of excess glue seeps out from the base of the ballast - no point in letting it go to waste.
Here's an example of that, where the foregound has yet to be finished...

You'll also want to test all of your newly-ballasted track before adding scenery, as trees and structures can often get in the way if you have to do repairs to the track or turnouts.

Another angle from which this can be approached, is to consider that there's likely nothing that you will do to your layout that will give you as much "bang-for-your-buck" as painting the rails and adding ballast, both simple jobs.

Wayne

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, March 17, 2018 12:50 PM

MisterBeasley

I do ballast last.  I think it's because I really don't enjoy it.

Ahh . . . saving the green beans for last because they're your favorite?

But seriously folks, I've done it both ways, or several ways. Over the years the criteria has evolved into 'do the messiest stuff first'.

Right now I'm doing landforms, and that involves foam and/or lightweight sheetrock mud, and that stuff is messy and needs to be finished and vacuumed before getting to other chores. But, there were a few areas that needed to be ballasted first: namely the approaches to tunnels and other areas that would be hard to reach or awkward to work on after scenicking. But even then some minimal scenicking needed to be done (such as trackside ditches) and the ground needed to be painted mud/dirt grayish brown before starting ballasting. 

So the answer is: it all depends. Hope this helps making a decision. Big Smile

Robert 

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by SouthPenn on Saturday, March 17, 2018 1:05 PM

I do ballast last. That way I don't get plaster and other junk on the track/ballast while doing other work. I also don't glue the ballst down for a few weeks. If I don't like the way it came out, it's easier to change.

South Penn
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:40 PM

Ballast last cause that's how it looks in real life, which is what we are trying to imitate.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by superbe on Sunday, March 18, 2018 2:15 AM

For me it is easier to bring the scenery up to the groomed ballast rather than the opposite of creating a ballast line in vegetation.

As usual there isjust no one rightway of doing things. it's a personal preference;

Just My    Worth

Bob

 

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Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, March 18, 2018 4:56 AM

I completed ballasting & ground cover last year on the current HO layout.  I ballasted and applied ground cover "both ways", and either can work.  That said, if you can carefully apply the ballast, I would do it after the ground cover is in place.  After all, that is what happened with the prototype.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 18, 2018 5:11 AM

I have done it both ways, but a problem that I have encountered when doing the ground cover first and the ballast last is stray ballast in the ground cover.

In part, that is due to the light weight of the Woodland Scenics ballast. It easily bounces around. If you ballast with real rock, that may not be a problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by bearman on Sunday, March 18, 2018 5:59 AM

I am not hung up on who came first, ground or ballast.  If this is important, then a case can be made to install your ground scenery on the entire layout before any track is laid, befor and roadbed is installed, before any bridge is installed, and before any balllast is installed, ad nauseum

I prefer to ballast first and have not done it any other way.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 18, 2018 6:12 AM

bearman

I am not hung up on who came first, ground or ballast.  If this is important, then a case can be made to install your ground scenery on the entire layout before any track is laid, befor and roadbed is installed, before any bridge is installed, and before any balllast is installed, ad nauseum 

LOL

Hey, that is pretty much the way that things were in 1830 before the first railroad was built in the United States.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, March 18, 2018 6:22 AM

Like all old industrial areas I can hardly call what I use ballast but,it goes down first.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by faraway on Sunday, March 18, 2018 8:20 AM

I do the ballast after the basic scenery inclusive level crossings are done but before the ground cover (grass etc.) is applied. I think ballast stones riding on top of vertical aligned static grass looks odd. 

Reinhard

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 18, 2018 9:05 AM

faraway

I do the ballast after the basic scenery inclusive level crossings are done but before the ground cover (grass etc.) is applied. I think ballast stones riding on top of vertical aligned static grass looks odd. 

I did my ballast on my modules after static grass.  It took quite a bit of effort to vacuum out all the stray ballast floating in the static grass.   

That being said, it was worth it for that well maintained mainline appearance.  For say a logging railroad, the answer to the question, "which is first ballast or scenery?", is likely yes.

 
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Posted by alan76 on Sunday, March 18, 2018 11:24 AM

Thank you all for your responces! I am totally convinced to put the ballast down first. Or wait, no, put the scenery down first. 

I guess it's basically whatever your heart desires.

So it's settled. Ballast first by tunnels, bridges and yards. and maybe the rest of the layout while I'm at it Confused, and then the ground foam and dirt. MaybeCool

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Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, March 18, 2018 2:26 PM

May I back up Richhotrain's comments........  When using Woodland Scenics ballast, I would advise doing it first.  It is so light and "bouncy" and can go all over the place.  Nothing like seeing a greywhite rock here and there in your lush fields.

True stone ballast (i.e. Arizona, etc.) works very well applied after the ground cover is down.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by kasskaboose on Sunday, March 18, 2018 4:36 PM

I've also done it both ways and it doesn't make a difference.  It depends on what you enjoy more and prefer.  Why not try one first, switch, and see what you prefer.

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Posted by alan76 on Monday, March 19, 2018 4:13 PM

Thanks eveyone! I'm going to start with the ballast in the yard and by portals and then see how it goes from there. 

Alan

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Monday, March 19, 2018 6:02 PM

Frankly, I think it depends. If you put scenery, grass, etc. on first, it will look a lot more realistic as the track would be laid on top whatever it was being built on as in real life. However, I have found that applying grass after ballasting conviniently adds "weeds" to the track as is commonly found on prototype railroads, so you don't have to come back and add them seperately later. It is up to you.

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 5:41 AM

alan76

Thank you all for your responces! I am totally convinced to put the ballast down first. Or wait, no, put the scenery down first. 

 

Fantastic!   It's nice when someone can be helped out when they ask a question on these forums.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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